Hazel isn't getting better...

[CptJack]

I would say that is a particular rescue organization's call.

 

The same could be said of many dogs who were taken into rescue with health issues, fear issues, etc. Those dogs took spots that other dogs could have had, in a sense. But someone thought they were worth saving, and there are many of us who are deeply grateful for that fact.

 

Many of those dogs are cherished members of our households and the joy of our hearts in spite of those things.

 

Yes.

 

I am not judging either way, but there are always going to be dogs out there that rescues can't save. It isn't just a matter of money, either.

 

Every rescue makes their own criteria for which dogs they take in, and sometimes that's based on breed, or size, or age - there are some senior rescues out there - or special needs of whatever sort (lots of deaf dog rescues too). Some actually keep their numbers down by taking ONLY special needs dogs, some take them sometimes, some don't take them at all.

 

End of day, though, the math equation doesn't really apply Not taking one special needs dog who needs money and takes up a single foster home for a long time actually DOES NOT mean that they would, without that dog, be taking in and rehoming a bunch of other ones.

 

(I am not telling OP what to do. As far as I'm concerned it's a deeply painful and personal decision, and whether they surrender to rescue, euth, or some other option, they're doing their best to be responsible for an animal they love and it's going to hurt no matter what, and that's nothing to get outraged about.)

[Maralynn]

My experience with FHO was a dog belonging to my grandparents. The dog was hit by a car and had a dislocated hip that the (ancient rural) vet didn't catch when stitching her up. She kept loosing weight and was uninterested in life. They took her into another vet who found the issue. By this time she had lost about a third of her body weight and was miserable ( they had attributed the behavior to the healing process). They did the FHO as a last resort. The dog 50-60# 3 y/o lab) went into surgery looking like she was on her last legs. She came out of the vets office later that day looking/acting like a 3 y/o lab. She lived to about 13 and didn't have any issues until 10-11. And then it just seemed like normal aging dog issues as opposed to hip specific.

 

Once again, I'm sorry that you're facing this. Based on my experience, I would inquire about FHO. But I'm not directly involved and I don't know all the information and I'm sure that it's a heart wrenching choice either way.

[GentleLake]

The dog I mentioned who had 2 FHOs done by the rescue was probably at least 50 lbs. (as I'd mentioned, I thought he was a border collie x golden mix). As I remember him, he was a pretty big boy. Just checked my records and he was close to 6 when the surgery was done. This was 5-6 years ago and AFAIK he's still doing well.

 

I don't know whether or not arthritis can develop, but since there's no bone on bone contact my guess is that it would be minimal.

 

Best wishes in whatever you decide to do.

[Riika]

rwinner-This thread is going south. I'd just exit stage about now, and let it go.

 

I hope you are able to make the right decision, (whatever that may be) without being swayed either direction by people who haven't seen the dog, don't know what she's like, what she's going through, etc.

 

Best of luck in your search for a new service dog-there is a great group on Facebook, that could possibly give you some advice on the breed you should select for the work you need. Personally, I would not get a giant breed dog-they usually don't live all that long, and have lots of health problems. Also, they are very hard to tuck out of the way on busses, restaurants, etc. because of their size.

[CSW]

Rwinner,

 

In response to your recent questions on FHO. My BC was over the recommended weight for FHO. The orthos Vet first recommendation was total hip replacement. 2nd alternative was FHO. 3rd alternative was euthanasia. My husband, unknown to me, chose FHO. It was the right decision. The dog did GREAT. Arthritis was not an issue. Instead of agility we did obedience. Everyone always said Choco was happy dog and could not tell he had surgery. He could run and play with the best of them. The vet just felt agility might encourage an injury since he was already so active.

 

If you accept Laura's offer to place her into a rescue, they will also have her evaluated. Rescues will euthanize a dog if is in the dog's best interests.

 

If you accept Laura's offer you will have done the very best you could for Hazel in the current situation. I think it would remove the stress from you and allow you to move on to a new dog as needed. I will even kick in a few bucks to the rescue for the Hazel's evaluation and care if Laura lets us know where she goes.

 

Ultimately this is your decision. We are only giving you an alternative here that might really work out well and if it does not the rescue will follow their moral responsiblilty to keep Hazel from suffering needlessly.

[LauraV]

Csw,

 

If things move forward and she chooses the rescue route, I would be more than happy to share the rescues information. This particular rescue has taken on cases like this before.

[Gloria Atwater]

Oh, for pity's sake. Are people even hearing this poor woman'? Are they even reading what she's saying?

Her beloved, bright, beautiful Hazel is no longer the dog she used to be, but is in such debilitating, terrible pain that she crams herself into hiding places, moans in her sleep, barks and acts out and can't even stand to ride in a car - and yet people are desperate to hand her off to rescue so she can be magically repaired. Hand Hazel off to strangers so that she can linger for who knows how long in continued distress, while that rescue puts thousands of dollars into attempting to "fix" this poor dog. Money the rescue could better put to helping dogs with far more favorable prognosis. I don't think this is "just" the case of a bad hip - I'd say it's a lot more complicated than that.

As a wise soul said early in this conversation, there can come a point in some dogs' illnesses where they "become the illness." If Hazel has reached that point where she has become her illness, (and God knows, if she were in my house, I'd certainly feel that way,") then our job is not to judge or badger her stricken owner. Our job is gently offer advice, kindly offer suggestions - and then let it the hell go. If Hazel's person has seen enough of poor Hazel's constant, unending agony to reach the decision to let her go, then it's not our job to tell Hazel's person that she's not doing enough. It's now our job to be as compassionate as we can as she makes the most heartbreaking decision any dog owner can ever make.

Back off or back down, but for the love of God, find your kindness. If you can't hear this woman's heartbreaking grief in every word she types, you're not listening.

~ Gloria

[LauraV]

Gloria I don't feel like you are being fair to me. I have personally worked with this rescue and wouldn't bother if I didn't think she could be helped. I'm not one to give up until all areas are addressed and tried to give her an alternative. You can't act like I was going to throw her in a shelter and think lets see what happens. There is a lot more that goes into it. This particular rescue helps dogs with heartworm treatment, surgeries, and dogs who need no extra help at all. It isn't always about the money. Some rescues help those who aren't always helped. Senior dog rescues are a great example of that. Should we shun away seniors because they are closer to rainbow bridge in favor of puppies? No. A little off topic, but still. It is unfortunate that neither vet was able to help with pain management. I do feel for her. She is in a situation I hope to never be in. God bless her and Hazel. Their story has been such a roller coaster. How the ride ends is up to her.

[Blackdawgs]

One can't know if the dog can helped until there is a diagnosis. The assumption is being made that the primary issue is the hip.....

[LauraV]

The hip seems to be the thing causing quality of life issues as far as I can tell. And its always the same hip that causes her the most trouble, not a shifting pain like you see with a lot of other diseases causing joint pain.

 

 

And before she said the second vet diagnosed it as HD. Am I missing something?

[D'Elle]

I agree with what Gloria said. And as for being fair, LauraV, I don't think that you are being fair to rwinner. You have made your offer, several times over in fact. Now you are trying to put pressure on her to do what you think she should do, based on nothing more than your opinion, with no first hand knowledge of the dog. You want what is best for the dog; your heart is in the right place. But you should back off.

 

Rwinner knows what your offer is, and if she decides to take you up on it, fine. If she makes a different decision, that is hers to make, and I will say once again that it is inappropriate for anyone here to judge or pressure this woman or attempt to bully her into anything. She is doing considerably more than most people would to try to make the best decision, and as Gloria said she deserves our support, not criticism. I hope that if I ever have a hard decision to make I won't encounter such aggressive persuasion.

[LauraV]

If that is how you feel I came off that's fine. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and I'm not going to try and defend myself every time someone disagrees with me and my choices and choice of words. I'm a passionate person and I'm fine with being judged for it.

[Sue R]

I haven't expressed an opinion on this but I have to agree with Gloria. This is totally rwinner's decision to make and any decision to be made appears to be involving a lot of effort, emotion, financial consideration, what's best for the dog, and what rwinner feels comfortable with. I don't have a problem with that. No one who is making the effort she is should be pressured to relinquish a dog.

 

I will also say that I am someone who feels that a *lot* of money put into one rescue dog without a high probability of a very positive outcome, is money that could be "invested" in multiple, equally-deserving, healthy, readily-adoptable dogs/pups. It sounds harsh but from what I read, this is a dog that rwinner has tried very hard, within her own constraints, to provide a quality of life for, and the poor girl is in such pain that she is becoming dangerous.

 

I just put $4000 into a 13 1/2 year old dog with liver cancer, for diagnosis and surgery, with an unpredictable outcome (which we could not know until after the surgery). If I had not been able to do this for him, should I have surrendered him to a rescue that might have been able to have it done, not really knowing if that herculean effort would truly expand his quality time remaining?

 

Just my two cents. I think everyone here, and I do mean *everyone*, wants what's best for Hazel and rwinner - some of us just don't agree on what we think that is. Of course, none of us but rwinner has been able to live and see the whole picture.

 

Very best wishes in whatever your decision is, rwinner, and especially in having a sense of peace in your decision-making.

[urge to herd]

^^^ This. If you're still reading, I'm casting my vote that YOU do what YOU think is best for YOU and the dog. And yes, I believe that a human's needs are more important than a dog's. It may be unheard of in some dog-loving circles, but there it is.

 

You have a chronic illness that gets worse over time. You have limited energy and finances. Your priority has to be YOU. If one phone call is all it took to give Hazel to a wonderful rescue that could 'fix', I'd say do it. That's not what's happening here.

 

I am so sorry that you're having to make this decision. I wish I could be there to look you in the face and tell you what an incredible job you've already done. And to hold your hand as you make whichever decision you make.

 

Ruth

[Maralynn]

^^^ This. If you're still reading, I'm casting my vote that YOU do what YOU think is best for YOU and the dog. And yes, I believe that a human's needs are more important than a dog's. It may be unheard of in some dog-loving circles, but there it is.

 

You have a chronic illness that gets worse over time. You have limited energy and finances. Your priority has to be YOU. If one phone call is all it took to give Hazel to a wonderful rescue that could 'fix', I'd say do it. That's not what's happening here.

 

I am so sorry that you're having to make this decision. I wish I could be there to look you in the face and tell you what an incredible job you've already done. And to hold your hand as you make whichever decision you make.

 

Ruth

Yes. This.

[GentleLake]

I also agree with Gloria.

 

No one else can put themselves in the shoes of someone who's dealing with chronic illness and/or pain. It affects your ability to cope with stressful situations and decisions. People coming off as if they know what's best for this person and her dog are clueless. Offer opinions and support, by all means, but don't pretend you know what's best for either of them, and being judgemental just adds to an already untenable situation for the OP.

 

Again, I wish you all the best with whatever decision you make, Rwinner, and I know you'll have Hazel's best interests at heart no matter what you decide.

[Luana]

Rwinner,

When you started this discussion the impression was that you were not sure what to do, that you had doubts about the current treatment for Hazel and that something else was possibly going on.

Now, on this board, unless there is someone expert in the field, you will not find answers to these specific questions. So, to clear your mind to this regard you obviously need to talk to a good vet.

Such as for example Dr. J Dyce at Ohio state university. I have heard that he is an excellent orthopedic surgeon, and people come from everywhere in the country to have their dog evaluated and/or operated on.

So if you want specific answers, including what to expect in case of a surgery, in terms of recovery, you need to talk to an expert.

Of course, on this board there will be people with different ideas and solutions, and everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I’m sure everybody is trying to help either supporting you and/or offering you possible solutions.

I was wondering for example if the 2314 views this topic has so far, are relative to different users. In this case it would take say, 10$ each and you could have raised some money.

I hope this discussion did help you to make a decision, there is no one that knows Hazel better than you, so I’m sure you will make the right choice, whatever this is.

Best wishes,

Luana

[Blackdawgs]

The dog needs to be evaluated by the vet. A phone conversation or email will not do. It is impossible to know if this dog is a candidate for the FHO until minimally an orthopedist has laid hands on it and viewed good quality xrays. (and if you are even considering this, bring the dogs entire medical history to the appt)

 

It would be unfair to everyone (and the dog) concerned to put this on a rescue unless you (the collective you) knew exactly what you (the collective you) are dealing with.

[Sue R]

If you're still reading, I'm casting my vote that YOU do what YOU think is best for YOU and the dog. And yes, I believe that a human's needs are more important than a dog's. It may be unheard of in some dog-loving circles, but there it is.

 

You have a chronic illness that gets worse over time. You have limited energy and finances. Your priority has to be YOU. If one phone call is all it took to give Hazel to a wonderful rescue that could 'fix', I'd say do it. That's not what's happening here.

 

I am so sorry that you're having to make this decision. I wish I could be there to look you in the face and tell you what an incredible job you've already done. And to hold your hand as you make whichever decision you make.

 

Ruth

 

Yes!

 

I, too, am someone who feels it is not just about the dog. I won't tell you how much money I have put in total into this one dearest-to-my-heart dog but I only did it because I could do it at the time it happened (we are talking three major surgeries and rehab for two of them). Someone else might not have been able to do what I was able to do and I would not fault them for that. Yes someone else would have gone into debt to do what they felt they should do.

 

Your dog, your choice, your peace of mind with your decision. I think rwinner is going more than the extra mile, within her ability, to do what she feels is right and best for Hazel, and I commend her for that.

[rwinner]

Hello everyone.

 

I made the decision and put Hazel down this morning. It was a difficult thing, but honestly once it was over I felt a lot better knowing her suffering is over.

Yesterday we went for just a 5 minute walk to let her blow off some steam, she got the aggressive zoomies and bit me, then fell over trying to go up the 3 inch step on our front door, took a five hour nap afterwards moaning. While I would have loved for the rescue situation to work out, I just knew in my heart after that that she couldn't wait on a hope of rescue and continue to suffer. (she did have a definitive diagnosis, and has been on multiple different pain control options, I don't know why this didn't come up, probably just wasn't clear with all that is going on - stuff happened fast and there were a lot of vet appointments.)

Also, I didn't even think of this until a while after I got home. But I realized that despite us dieting her, her physical condition getting better (bigger tuck, can feel ribs), and her skipping about half her meals recently, she still gained five pounds over the last few weeks (they weighed her for the euthanasia). I'm not going to torture myself over this and have no experience for why this would occur in a dog, but honestly my cousin had bad cancer and had the same thing happen - got skinnier, stopped eating, gained weight. I wonder if maybe that was also an underlying issue that no one found, and this turned out for the best even though it certainly was an awful decision.

I will probably post in the memorium forum as a way to process, grieve, and celebrate her life. If any of you would care to read it to know the kind of dog she was, and the wonderful service and great impact she had on me and others around her. I will certainly remember her that way.

Thank you all for your opinions and advice - regardless of whether you agree with my decision or not. I needed to hear all sides. In the end, I needed to go with what was right for both hazel and me, like everyone has been saying. Please do not post anything criticizing me for this difficult decision.

[Tommy Coyote]

I am so sorry you and Hazel had to go through all of this. At least she is no longer in such awful pain. And you have a chance to heal.

 

It's so hard to lose a dog. And losing one so young is just miserable. I lost my first border collie when she was only a year old. It was very hard.

 

You were just stuck between a rock and a hard place. No good choices.

 

God Bless.

[Blackdawgs]

I'm sorry for your loss. It was a brave decision.

[Root Beer]

I am very sorry for your loss.

[GentleLake]

I'm so very, very sorry for your loss. It can't have been easy for you to make the decision, but you've released her from her pain. I hope that's some comfort to you. Even if there was some help for her, there were no guarantees, and it would have been a long painful process for her.

[urge to herd]

So brave, that's all I'm going to say. May your healing be swift and gentle, and the days ahead easier.

 

Ruth