Where to go off leash

[mum24dog]

I have to say I could not imagine not taking my dogs for off leash walks, one of my husband and I's great joys is watching our dogs be dogs, explore, sniff, run, play, just enjoy life at their own pace. We have had dogs for 20+ years and always lived in a town, but we have never had a serious problem.

Couldn't agree more.

 

My first dog had been a self employed street dog then in rescue before Adoption. Being an independently minded lurcher made it difficult to train a reliable recall and find places for him to run without finding something to chase. I despaired of being able to let him run free at one time but we got there in the end.

[smiles604]

Thank you for all the responses! Lots of different ideas and things to consider, and it's really interesting to me to hear what other people do. Alfreda, thank you in particular for the trail link - that's not too far from me so I will definitely look into it!

[mum24dog]

Our Forestry Commission are currently conducting a survey of dog walkers to find out what they want out of their experience of using their forests.

[Alchemist]

When I lived in suburbia, I'd take the dogs on long off-leash hikes at a local drinking water reservoir. Dogs aren't, strictly speaking, permitted off-leash - but because it's the city's drinking water reservoir, the County (in which it lies) didn't (seem to) patrol it. We would occasionally encounter some mountain bikers (usually on trails they were banned from; we'd nod at each other) or joggers. Very occasionally someone else with a dog or dogs.

 

BUT - (1) my dogs are under good voice control (they "lie down" instantly when they hear the whistle); (2) they have a good recall; (3) they don't chase deer or waterfowl; (4) they aren't aggressive toward people or other dogs; (5) they don't jump on people. So my default is to lie them down the instant I see anyone, until they've passed us on the trail.

 

If they didn't have this level of control I wouldn't feel comfortable taking them off-leash. It took quite a bit of training. But the reward is in watching a dog get a chance to be a dog...

 

Now that I've moved to a small farm, I'm much more likely to turn them loose into a pasture if they have the zoomies. And of course they get to come with me and help with farm chores.

[WickAndArtoo]

We go off leash if there is no danger of being hit by cars and no dogs around (because ours are a bit too friendly!) . As others have stated very early mornings and when it storms or if it's very cold out are our favorite times! We are from an area where backcountry camping is plausible and it makes for a great safe opportunity for off leash time... If your dog doesn't spook or get focused on a animal... One of my dogs is a water lover and we love to find ponds or rivers for off leash swimming. State parks are a wonderful place to go, and many are not frequented by a lot of dogs (some are) and most that we have been to have a 6ft leash or voice control rule. So far we haven't ran into any uncontrolled dogs at any state parks...

[WickAndArtoo]

When I lived in suburbia, I'd take the dogs on long off-leash hikes at a local drinking water reservoir. Dogs aren't, strictly speaking, permitted off-leash - but because it's the city's drinking water reservoir, the County (in which it lies) didn't (seem to) patrol it. We would occasionally encounter some mountain bikers (usually on trails they were banned from; we'd nod at each other) or joggers. Very occasionally someone else with a dog or dogs.

 

BUT - (1) my dogs are under good voice control (they "lie down" instantly when they hear the whistle); (2) they have a good recall; (3) they don't chase deer or waterfowl; (4) they aren't aggressive toward people or other dogs; (5) they don't jump on people. So my default is to lie them down the instant I see anyone, until they've passed us on the trail.

 

If they didn't have this level of control I wouldn't feel comfortable taking them off-leash. It took quite a bit of training. But the reward is in watching a dog get a chance to be a dog...

 

Now that I've moved to a small farm, I'm much more likely to turn them loose into a pasture if they have the zoomies. And of course they get to come with me and help with farm chores.

Did you use a E-collar for this training or did you do it without? I have seen many dogs on popular trails that are reliable like this however all were on E-collars. Just curious I have no opinion either way!

[simba]

I have one who's like that- now, she will want to approach people or nudge people who are walking against you, but she will call off them. But she's from a biddable breed, genetically good temperament, no use of e-collar. I was lucky. She used to chase waterfowl but I got her out of that (touch wood).

 

I have one other dog who with even more time spent on training is like that except for the 'aggressive towards other dogs' part (but she's now deaf so rarely or never off-lead any more).

 

I don't think an e-collar should be necessary for a dog like a collie to achieve this. I, too, see a lot of dogs on trails like this but none of them were on e-collars (that I've noticed anyway). You're talking about a dog bred before these were invented, to be reliable on voice or whistle commands around incredibly exciting stimuli (sheep) under often trying circumstances.

[WickAndArtoo]

I have one who's like that- now, she will want to approach people or nudge people who are walking against you, but she will call off them. But she's from a biddable breed, genetically good temperament, no use of e-collar. I was lucky. She used to chase waterfowl but I got her out of that (touch wood).

 

I have one other dog who with even more time spent on training is like that except for the 'aggressive towards other dogs' part (but she's now deaf so rarely or never off-lead any more).

 

I don't think an e-collar should be necessary for a dog like a collie to achieve this. I, too, see a lot of dogs on trails like this but none of them were on e-collars (that I've noticed anyway). You're talking about a dog bred before these were invented, to be reliable on voice or whistle commands around incredibly exciting stimuli (sheep) under often trying circumstances.

Most but not all are that responsive! However I wasn't sure if the poster had all BCs. I am amazed every time our BC comes bounding strait to me when I call him over, I am so used to our other dog who takes his sweet time... So sometimes I do forget how biddable they are.

[Cass C]

I also come from an area that gives great opportunity for camping in a dog friendly area. That is the only time my dogs are allowed off leash to run around. The camping spots I go to are very rural and spread far apart, so I feel safe letting my dogs wander around and go off leash hiking. I do have rules on off leash walks/hikes that my dogs stay within sight and come when called no matter what is going on.

 

To train this I always carry a leash and if my dog chooses to ignore me or decides to leave my sight after a warning I go get them and leash them for a couple minutes while the listening dog gets to continue their fun of being off leash. When I only had one dog I carried a pocket full of hot dogs and every once in a while (or when the dog was getting too far away) I would call the dog back and give them a couple bites of hot dog then let them explore some more. I found that seeing another dog getting to be off leash while they were leashed helped a lot for walking multiple dogs off leash.

 

However, if you have doubts that you could call your dog off a scent or person or whatever else is a self rewarding activity off leash than a shock collar could be used for the dogs own safety.

[Alfreda]

Did you use a E-collar for this training or did you do it without? I have seen many dogs on popular trails that are reliable like this however all were on E-collars. Just curious I have no opinion either way!

 

I'm always so dismayed that people would even think of using an e-collar to train anything. But I do see some- usually hunting breeds-- wearing them in open space... I think this is a cultural thing (among the people who buy those breeds of dogs I mean... Although there is a school nearby for positive gun dogs...)

 

By far the majority of dogs (all sorts of breeds) who are out hiking under "voice & sight" control criteria in open space in my area are trained using positive methods. Here is a link that contains additional resources on how to train a reliable recall:

 

http://denisefenzipetdogs.com/2015/09/21/recall-training/

[simba]

I was re-reading this and it looked like I was advocating people walk their dogs on railways. I mean, I assume people would know not to do this, but just in case- don't. I mean the well-fenced-off paths you will sometimes find near railways. Never walk your dog along a railway track even if it looks quiet, even if everything seems fine.

[simba]

Someone I met today decided that 'where to go off-leash' was in the middle of a busy city street. Four or five people piled out of a car, along with a very happy small dog who proceeded to run hither and thither. He ran straight up to my reactive dog (who didn't react- go teaching!), ran off down the street, ran across the road, ran back down the street again on the other side. He would check in with his people and then go off again. More than one car had to stop suddenly, he was paying absolutely no attention to the traffic, wholly dangerous.

 

 

Unfortunately his people walked off down the road and he followed. I was in the dollar store and was so tempted to get them a cheap leash and point out which end gets attached to the dog.

[Donald McCaig]

Dear Doggers,

Ms. Alfreda writes: "I'm always so dismayed that people would even think of using an e-collar to train anything. But I do see some- usually hunting breeds-- wearing them in open space... I think this is a cultural thing (among the people who buy those breeds of dogs I mean... Although there is a school nearby for positive gun dogs...)"

 

Although I think they can be a useful tool in rare circumstances, I don't train with ecollars. However, most-to-all competitive retriever and upland field trial bird dogs are trained with ecollars. Why? Professional trainers, those who make their livelihood by results can't afford to embrace less effective methods.

 

Donald McCaig

[rushdoggie]

Dear Doggers,

Ms. Alfreda writes: "I'm always so dismayed that people would even think of using an e-collar to train anything. But I do see some- usually hunting breeds-- wearing them in open space... I think this is a cultural thing (among the people who buy those breeds of dogs I mean... Although there is a school nearby for positive gun dogs...)"

 

Although I think they can be a useful tool in rare circumstances, I don't train with ecollars. However, most-to-all competitive retriever and upland field trial bird dogs are trained with ecollars. Why? Professional trainers, those who make their livelihood by results can't afford to embrace less effective methods.

 

Donald McCaig

 

Or methods that may take a little longer...but I think its more a culture.

 

Go search for field people teaching dogs to hold birds in their mouth and you will see some training (not all, but some) that makes you go gah. If anyone tried some of that with the most confident Border Collie they would get bit. In comparison e-collars are subtle.

[GentleLake]

...most-to-all competitive retriever and upland field trial bird dogs are trained with ecollars. Why? Professional trainers, those who make their livelihood by results can't afford to embrace less effective methods.

 

Or is it that they're just not willing to try other equally effective methods that may take longer to learn and train with?

 

People are all too often unwilling to try new ways when they're stuck in their behavioral ruts. That goes for dog trainers as well as others.

[Islanddog]

Did you use a E-collar for this training or did you do it without? I have seen many dogs on popular trails that are reliable like this however all were on E-collars. Just curious I have no opinion either way!

I proofed Dynamo (previous GSD) with an e-collar. I`m super paranoid about dogs running off after coyotes, deer, getting in the wrong dogs face, that sort of thing. I trained her with +R for many months on a long-line. That was a huge big chunk of her young healthy years (she blew out her knee at 7 yrs old, after surgery, no more off-leash for her) so I actually regret (with her) not doing it sooner. It`s one of those times when I weigh the consequences of continued `management` (no off-leash for you) vs limited use of -R,+P training. That said, she was perfect off-lead in dog class by then, and 90% reliable in the woods and very motivated to the recall for both treats and frisbee. With all that in place, it takes very little to proof against crittering. It only takes one bad chase to get a dog killed, so again, I`m just paranoid about that one time they chase the wrong thing, or go the wrong way. Most people just let their dogs off leash, and mostly it works out for them but I completely freak if a dog gets out of sight or blows a recall on the trail even once.

 

Sonic is long line only, so he has yet to feel the wind in his sails, I feel sorry for him, stuck on a leash this way, but that`s where he`s at with training. (and in case you`re even wondering, no e-collar on him, he has more enough on his plate right now, I just really feel sorry for him stuck on his line). I`m easing him into the dog park, as he seems to be quite `good with dogs` when I`m not standing in the way. In the woods, his mind blows at the sight of squirrels, dogs, coyotes, anything that moves. He went NUTS when got onto a coyote trail (I saw the coyote, he only caught the scent) so I know I need to be incredibly careful with him. If he did not have temperament issues (reactive) I may have proofed a recall by now, but I make my decisions based on the dog I have, not a training philosophy.

 

And on topic, off lead places in my area are municipal forests, conservation areas, fallow fields. Some are official, some are `common usage`.

[Donald McCaig]

Dear Roxanne,

Other than religious reasons why would any professional trainer employ methods that took longer to learn and train with?

 

I agree that people can get stuck in their behavioral ruts. Hunting dog trainers' change to ecollars is recent - more recent than behaviorism or Ms. Pryor's theories.

 

Donald McCaig

[Sekah]

Dear Roxanne,

Other than religious reasons why would any professional trainer employ methods that took longer to learn and train with?

 

I agree that people can get stuck in their behavioral ruts. Hunting dog trainers' change to ecollars is recent - more recent than behaviorism or Ms. Pryor's theories.

 

Donald McCaig

 

Other reasons might be engagement or motivation. Or do they fall under a catch-all term like religious?

[Maralynn]

Faster isn't always better. Even when it is effective. I mean, I can drive 90 miles on the freeway and get somewhere pretty quick. But is it the best choice? Maybe only in a select few situations...

[Donald McCaig]

Dear Doggers,

We teach dogs simple things: don't worry my ankle, and very complex things: viz. dealing with unfamiliar sheep on unfamiliar terrain with minimum human input.

 

What we seek as trainers in simple or complex is a dog that behaves properly to our standards.

 

Wouldn't the dog's 'engagement' or 'motivation' be tested by how well it performs?

 

Donald McCaig

[Sekah]

I think it depends on if engagement and motivation are criteria by which you measure success. I've seen plenty of people score perfect runs in the competitive obedience rings while dogs plod along beside them.

 

For me, yes, successful performances include engagement and motivation. But not everyone feels similarly.

[Donald McCaig]

Dear Doggers,

 

Hard to score. Harder when there's a score already.

 

Donald McCaig

[Islanddog]

This is getting off topic, but can't resist as I'm the one who stuck my neck out as an e-collar user.

Off-topic. In performance, agility or obedience or tricks, engagement, visible joy and enthusiasm is part of my criteria, a major part, whether I'm training or watching. I personally wouldn't use an e-collar for any of those things. Since I admire Michael Ellis (big name in Schutzhund and he adds e-collars in advanced work), I'll not take a firm stand against. He's big on engagement.

But on topic, off-leash, I would score performance on exploration, engagement, safety, exercise, autonomy, & more, very complex if itemized, simple in everyday language--is the dog having fun, getting exercise and relatively safe.

[rushdoggie]

Dear Doggers,

We teach dogs simple things: don't worry my ankle, and very complex things: viz. dealing with unfamiliar sheep on unfamiliar terrain with minimum human input.

 

What we seek as trainers in simple or complex is a dog that behaves properly to our standards.

 

Wouldn't the dog's 'engagement' or 'motivation' be tested by how well it performs?

 

Donald McCaig

 

 

Eeeeh, depends on the dog and the venue. Also certain activities reward the end, not the joy or happiness of the dog doing the task. In something we define as a "sport" as in, something we do for fun not because we need to put food on the table or starve, or protect or livestock from getting killed, I prefer a dog who thinks this is a fun activity we do together. Also it enhances relationship.

[rushdoggie]

This is getting off topic, but can't resist as I'm the one who stuck my neck out as an e-collar user.

Off-topic. In performance, agility or obedience or tricks, engagement, visible joy and enthusiasm is part of my criteria, a major part, whether I'm training or watching. I personally wouldn't use an e-collar for any of those things. Since I admire Michael Ellis (big name in Schutzhund and he adds e-collars in advanced work), I'll not take a firm stand against. He's big on engagement.

But on topic, off-leash, I would score performance on exploration, engagement, safety, exercise, autonomy, & more, very complex if itemized, simple in everyday language--is the dog having fun, getting exercise and relatively safe.

 

 

I have not used an e collar on any of my dogs, but then I have never had a dog with a strong will who I felt could not be trusted off leash or to chase cars etc. If I did, I would use one. If we had poisonous snakes here, I would use one to snake proof my dog. I wouldn't just slap it on, I'd research, get help, do it well and safely and as stress free as I could do it.

 

Its a tool. It has its (very limited) place. But if an e collar training session is what stands between your dog and possible death or never getting any freedom, I bet your dog would choose the collar.