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For those of you who train running contacts - and I specifically mean deliberately train them:

 

1. What specific criteria do you convey to your dog in the initial training stages?

 

2. How do you communicate this particular criteria to your dog?

 

3. How do you translate that criteria to the final contact performance?

 

4. How do you maintain that criteria throughout the dog's career?

 

5. How successful has your running contact training been? (Ballpark percentage of successful contacts in trial situations)

 

I'm not really looking to debate stopped vs. running. I have already made that decision.

I am not really asking about methods in general - just this one very specific piece. (Which, obviously, I consider to be quite important!)

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For those of you who train running contacts - and I specifically mean deliberately train them:

 

1. What specific criteria do you convey to your dog in the initial training stages?

For Rex, his criteria is that he must run. This sounds kind of vague, but I rewarded running the obstacle, and not doing a collection stride. If you watch their back legs, they should remain split. If they're together, they're going to leap. For the beginning, that's all I wanted. I didn't really care if he made the contact, but since he is so short-strided, if he's running, he is deep in the yellow. :D My new dog has the stride of Secretariat, so he could very well be in extension and still miss the yellow. He is learning a front foot behaviour.

 

2. How do you communicate this particular criteria to your dog?

We used a Manners Minder, which Rex loves. If he was right, he got paid. This relationship was very clear to Rex right from the beginning as he is incredibly food-motivated.

 

3. How do you translate that criteria to the final contact performance?

Not sure what you mean. We ran on a plank for a session, then went to a lower DW and raised it when he achieved about 80% success at that height.

 

 

4. How do you maintain that criteria throughout the dog's career?

For me, and YMMV, this has not required a lot of maintenance. The week before a trial, I might run a few (like, 5) dogwalks in a little sequence. Mostly work on turns, or really hard weavepole entrances from the DW, that kind of thing. But for us, it has not required much maintenance.

 

 

5. How successful has your running contact training been? (Ballpark percentage of successful contacts in trial situations)

I would say Rex's DW is probably 80% successful. For the first couple of years, he was closer to 95% consistent, but we're getting a little sloppy LOL! I find a lot of his success is predicated on the approach to the DW, so that he can get a good stride pattern. If it's from a weird approach, then he could have a problem finding his stride. Oh well. It's still really fun!

 

OTOH, his a-frame, which I literally never trained, as it tends to be a gift with purchase of the RDW, is about 99% successful. I can almost name the few times that he missed his frame. And now that he's in performance with a lower frame, I doubt that he'll ever miss one. It truly is gorgeous, fast, and he barely touches the obstacle (so easy on his body).

 

I love love LOVED teaching the RDW, and moreover, Rex loves running the DW. He is not a fast dog, so running the contacts keeps him moving on course. Plus it's super fun to run all the things! From a training point of view, it was a fascinating puzzle for me to figure out how to convey to Rex what I was looking for. This was all done through shaping, though I did use a NRM when he understood his criteria.

 

I made a video diary of his RDW training. I may be bias, but I think my dog might be the cutest dog in the world. :wub: Baby poodle!!

 

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For those of you who train running contacts - and I specifically mean deliberately train them:

 

1. What specific criteria do you convey to your dog in the initial training stages?

 

2. How do you communicate this particular criteria to your dog?

 

3. How do you translate that criteria to the final contact performance?

 

4. How do you maintain that criteria throughout the dog's career?

 

5. How successful has your running contact training been? (Ballpark percentage of successful contacts in trial situations)

 

I'm not really looking to debate stopped vs. running. I have already made that decision.

 

I am not really asking about methods in general - just this one very specific piece. (Which, obviously, I consider to be quite important!)

 

This if for a running a frame, Rook stops on the DW.

 

1. - Jump into then out of box with all 4 feet then run through alley oop.

 

2. Shaping with a clicker.

 

3. The box goes on the contact area of a lowered a frame and the alley oop goes 6 feet out. Once it is raised and proofed I fade the props.

 

4. Criteria has become crest a frame, hit once with front feet/rear feet, next hit with front feet/rear feet in the yellow, head down and exit the frame. If I see hits getting higher or only one stride then I will add back props for a practice session or two. I also utilize a no reward marker and withhold reward then repeat.

 

5. 100 % in trials to date. Of course at this time, that is 2-3 runs/day with an frame and maybe 10 trial days. The last trial he had a hit higher than I like so I added back the box and a stationary toy for a couple of practice sessions.

 

I am very pleased with his performance so far and I think it is going to be fairly easy to maintain as he clearly understands his criteria. If he has a bad hit in practice he almost always corrects it the next pass. I only do 4-5 frames per practice session and practice between 0 - 3 times a week depending on weather, schedule, etc.

 

Here is a little clip showing the hit in the trial that was higher than I cared for but still had feet clearly in yellow and a couple of practices where I added back the box and a stationary toy.

 

 

Have fun training! Running contacts become an obsessions and can have the highest of highs and the lowest of lows (the lows were centered around the DW which we finally gave up ;)

 

I do think conveying clear criteria is one of the most difficult aspects of RC training on the DW.

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Thank you to Kristi for the information. I find it useful.

 

I also have used the striding technique to train a RC. Torque is also very long-strided. He would be >90% successful at striding through the yellow with the board on the ground, and as I raised one end of the board up to about 4-6 inches. Once the board became more angled than that, he would begin to jump the yellow. It didn't matter how many times I returned the board back to flat and slowly, slowly started raising one end again - once the angle became too great, he would jump again. (and the angle isn't really that acute since the raised end of the board is only about 6 inches off the ground). I am quite sure that my reward system is not clear enough. I am considering getting a Manners Minder too.

 

Needless to say, we do not have a RC, but continue to work on it. Training this behavior has become a challenge I hope to overcome so I am not giving up on it.

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For me, the hardest thing was to get in my mind what a running stride versus a collection stride looks like. For my dog, who has a very hitchy gait, his extension stride might appear to be a collection stride for someone used to a long-strided dog. His default stride pattern for a straight approach and straight exit is 5 strides. If he gets a bad load or if there's a turn coming up, he could chip in 2 or more strides. Once, he did a 4 stride dogwalk. Once. It was magnificent. :P My friend's dog is a regular 4 strider and, in rare occasions, a 3 strider. It's pretty spectacular.

 

Here's a video showing, in slow motion, the difference between collecting (in this case, for a flip off the dogwalk) and extension (straight exits). You can see the rear leg split (although he is a front foot hitter) on the straights.

 

 

Edited to add:

 

Have fun training! Running contacts become an obsessions and can have the highest of highs and the lowest of lows (the lows were centered around the DW which we finally gave up ;)

OMG, this is so true! I know people who went to a very dark place over where their dog's feet were or weren't. We joke (but I'm kinda serious) that you should have to pass a psychological test before attempting a RDW. Also, it's not the easiest thing to train. If you had trouble shaping 2x2s, then you are really not going to have a lot of fun trying to shape a RDW! And some dogs aren't going to tolerate the process. I know that Wick would have bit me and then pissed on the dogwalk if I asked her to offer me all that Rex did. She wanted to know exactly what she needed to do to earn her toy. None of that shaping crap for her! :P

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Yeah, I agree. I am sort of obsessed with the RDW in the manner that I don't want to give up on training for it because I like the training challenge with my over-the-top dog and secondly, because he has had shoulder surgery (bicep tendon release) and I know that a RDW (and AF) is much easier on his shoulders.

 

I will go months without even training for it because I feel dejected, plus I don't want to put my frustrations on my dog - so I just don't train it until I am in a better frame of mind.

 

Kristi - are you shaping Bar's front foot strike? Would love to see some training video if it is not too much trouble. Sorry to go a bit off topic so we could start another thread or you could PM me.

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I put together a compilation of some of Rex's a-frames. As I mentioned earlier, we never trained a running a-frame, it's just something that came for free with training a running DW. I can't say we have any criteria, as he just seems to hit once and fall into the yellow. It's very low impact - I can barely hear him load on the obstacle.

 

I don't think this technique would work if the frame were higher. When I started agility, the frame was 6'3". The angle would have been too steep, IMO, to just fall into the yellow. Even the small height change between championship and performance frames affects Rex's hits. I'm not really sure what the heights are (maybe 5'10" and 5'6"?) but the slightly higher frame definitely produces a higher hit (that's still tolerably within the yellow).

 

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I put together a compilation of some of Rex's a-frames. As I mentioned earlier, we never trained a running a-frame, it's just something that came for free with training a running DW. I can't say we have any criteria, as he just seems to hit once and fall into the yellow. It's very low impact - I can barely hear him load on the obstacle.

 

I don't think this technique would work if the frame were higher. When I started agility, the frame was 6'3". The angle would have been too steep, IMO, to just fall into the yellow. Even the small height change between championship and performance frames affects Rex's hits. I'm not really sure what the heights are (maybe 5'10" and 5'6"?) but the slightly higher frame definitely produces a higher hit (that's still tolerably within the yellow).

 

My little mongrel is about 16in tall and started competing when the A frame was at 6ft 3in. It went down to 5ft 9in and I think that was about the time she found her stride. She's a lot smaller than Rex of course.
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My little mongrel is about 16in tall and started competing when the A frame was at 6ft 3in. It went down to 5ft 9in and I think that was about the time she found her stride. She's a lot smaller than Rex of course.

When I started (2003 maybe?), the frame was 6'3" for all dogs, from the tiny to the tall. I remember watching little yorkie mixes bravely climb that mountain of a frame, slat by slat. Thankfully, the AAC changed the height for the minis the next year (I think it went to 5'6") and a few years after for the open dogs too. I really don't remember any good running frames when it was 6'3". I think the angle would be too steep.

 

Now when the frame gets really low, like 5 feet, we start to have some other problems. :P

 

DS4_2386_zps71yqnjwq.jpg

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