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USBCHA allowing AKC herding judges at finals


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Please see the below quote from the USBCHA website regarding allowing AKC herding judges to judge the sheepdog finals. If you are concerned about this contact your local board member and voice your concerns. There is a very good discussion on fb in the district one group going on as well.

 

"2016 Judge Nominees: The BOD passed a motion modifying the rule that prohibits AKC judges from judging USBCHA National Finals to state that AKC Confirmation judges are not eligible to judge,but AKC Herding judges who are not Confirmation judges may be nominated. The nominees to judge the 2016 USBCHA National Sheepdog Finals are: Andrew Dickman, Johnny Robinson, Patrick Shannahan, Joyce Geier, Michael Gallagher, Charlie Torre, Ray Edwards, George Northrup and Terry Parrish. Board members of both the USBCHA and the ABCA will vote on the nominees by between February 1 and February 28, 2016. If you have comments, you are welcome to contact a Board member."

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I know of several very qualified USBCHA judges that are also AKC herding judges. Personally, I would hate to see their talents not utilized because they judged a herding trail in a venue that not everyone agrees with. At least in this part of the country, it seems like there are an awful lot of very, very talented USBCHA handlers and judges that all got their start in AKC herding and now do USBCHA. If they are qualified, why not let them judge the finals?

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Sure, but only if you want to blur the distinctions between USBCHA and AKC - which the majority of people whom I have seen voice an opinion do not wish to see happen.

 

I know one person who "got a start" and was involved with AKC and was even a judge for AKC. Once that person realized just what AKC stands for and how counterproductive that is to the true working Border Collie, she removed herself from any association with that organization. It may have cost her "clients" or "students" to do so, but she did what she felt was the right thing with regards to the dogs and the future of the breed.

 

I think that choosing an AKC judge, no matter how qualified otherwise, to judge the USBCHA National Finals definitely sends the wrong message, and lends credibility to the very organization that feels judging a Border Collie (or any other breed) by appearance is a valid assessment - in fact, their primary assessment.

 

PS - You can get a start anywhere but it's where you go from there that makes a statement.

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My thought is that this is the National Finals we are talking about. It represents what the USBCHA and ABCA stand for as an organization (as in, "not AKC") and is arguably the most widely-known symbol of such. If a trial host wants to hire an AKC judge for their own local trial, that's their prerogative. However, I would be very disappointed if the HA allowed a judge to be nominated for the Finals when that person represented a philosophy and organization which is fundamentally in opposition to what the USBCHA and ABCA stand for.

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Hello everyone,
I wholeheartedly disagree with a rule change that would allow anyone who is an AKC Herding judge to be nominated to judge our National Finals, regardless of their qualifications as a USBCHA competitor and / or judge. As someone who fought The Dog Wars, I feel strongly that there needs to be a complete separation of the USBCHA Finals and the AKC. Also, I urge every USBCHA member to share their thoughts regarding this by contacting the USBCHA Officers and Board Members.

 

Regards,

nancy

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Count me in with Sue, Emily and Nancy.

 

I don't care where they got their start, if they're an ACK judge now they shouldn't be judging the USBCHA National Finals. It seems completely antithetical to me.

 

I can't believe the USBCHA even considered such a modification, much less approved it. Where will they go next, ACK herding title guidelines?

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Sure, but only if you want to blur the distinctions between USBCHA and AKC - which the majority of people whom I have seen voice an opinion do not wish to see happen.

 

I know one person who "got a start" and was involved with AKC and was even a judge for AKC. Once that person realized just what AKC stands for and how counterproductive that is to the true working Border Collie, she removed herself from any association with that organization. It may have cost her "clients" or "students" to do so, but she did what she felt was the right thing with regards to the dogs and the future of the breed.

 

I think that choosing an AKC judge, no matter how qualified otherwise, to judge the USBCHA National Finals definitely sends the wrong message, and lends credibility to the very organization that feels judging a Border Collie (or any other breed) by appearance is a valid assessment - in fact, their primary assessment.

 

PS - You can get a start anywhere but it's where you go from there that makes a statement.

And how!

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I have been in touch with several Directors (my District, Directors-at-Large) and also the President and Vice-President, by email. I have also been reading the extensive discussion on Facebook on the District 1 page. I understand that this concern and the decision made are going to be readdressed shortly. From what I hear, if it comes to another vote, I don't believe that there will be approval for AKC "herding" judges, no matter how well qualified otherwise, to judge the USBCHA National Finals. Trial hosts will not be under any such restriction and I don't think they should be. The National Finals is a different level of competition and is the apex of the USBCHA trial year.

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I have been in touch with several Directors (my District, Directors-at-Large) and also the President and Vice-President, by email. I have also been reading the extensive discussion on Facebook on the District 1 page. I understand that this concern and the decision made are going to be readdressed shortly. From what I hear, if it comes to another vote, I don't believe that there will be approval for AKC "herding" judges, no matter how well qualified otherwise, to judge the USBCHA National Finals. Trial hosts will not be under any such restriction and I don't think they should be. The National Finals is a different level of competition and is the apex of the USBCHA trial year.

 

 

Thank you for the update, Sue.

 

I think what gripes me most is that it was done without any input from the membership, and without any heads-up to the ABCA either. Yes, the BOD has the authority to make rule changes, but this is such a fundamental change that I feel it could have been handled much more openly. At the least, they could have offered a period for comments from membership.

 

 

 

 

 

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A good judge is a good judge regardless of where they make their money. However if ABCA/USBCHA wants to make a clean cut then drawing a line with regard to judges is a good start. Although there has already been an AKC judge for the cattledog finals some years ago.

Why not make a broader line and work towards not allowing dual registered dogs?

(Let the fireworks begin-fireworks are fun to watch)

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In events like this, my mind often jumps to Why? Why was this decision made? Is it that hard to find qualified judges for the finals that they have to expand the pool of potential judges? Even from overseas? as I know that quite a few judges will travel from England, Scotland, Wales.

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I was very disappointed with this vote, and oppose it. I don't believe that someone who has decided to become involved with supporting the AKC to the extent I'm assuming one would have to be to become a judge in any AKC venue should be given the privilege of judging our National Finals.

 

( Several people have contacted me about this, but I did not run for re-election, and am no longer part of the BOD.)

 

Lori Cunningham

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Out of curiosity, I googled the web site of the individual who apparently sparked the board's decision (she's the AKC herding judge who was nominated to judge the Finals). I think it shows instantly the striking difference in culture Check out the "brags" section of the site--I can easily picture an entry there bragging about being chosen to judge the Finals, permanently posted for all the world to see and draw conclusions about the synchronicity between AKC and the USBCHA. The thought makes me shudder.

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Although there has already been an AKC judge for the cattledog finals some years ago.

 

Yea, there was. And this is what prompted the rule to have no ACK judges for either sheep or cattle Finals,

A

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A good judge is a good judge regardless of where they make their money. However if ABCA/USBCHA wants to make a clean cut then drawing a line with regard to judges is a good start. Although there has already been an AKC judge for the cattledog finals some years ago.

Why not make a broader line and work towards not allowing dual registered dogs?

 

I don't think we should ever bar AKC-registered dogs from the national finals. The finals is meant to identify and honor the best sheepdog or cattle dog, and to do that it has to be open to all comers who qualify. That's why we allow dogs of any registration or no registration at all (even non-border collies) to compete. If we barred AKC-registered dogs from the finals, we would not be doing that. Moreover, we would be leaving it open for AKC-registering people to say, "My dog could have won if he'd been allowed to compete."

 

The considerations are different as regards national finals judges. We are not trying to identify the best judge. (Indeed, I question whether it would ever be possible to determine the Best Judge -- even the Best Judge on the Day.) We need very good, experienced, competent judges, qualified to judge at the highest level (including double lift and international shed), of whom there are many outside of the AKC and very few (if any) within. So selection of judges is a legitimate area in which to make it clear that we don't think AKC is good for the border collie -- that our goals and values are different and we want to guard against blurring the lines between us and them. That's why the HA has a rule against holding HA-sanctioned trials in conjunction with AKC events. And that's why I think the HA rule that was just voted down should be reinstated. If a person chooses to become an AKC judge (an honored position within that organization, in which they are publicly representing the organization), they should not be eligible to also be a judge in our premiere event (an honored position in the HA, in which they are publicly representing the HA). Because of the rule, they know when they make the choice to go on the AKC roster of official approved judges that they are removing themselves from consideration to judge the HA finals.

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Hello everyone,


As I stated previously, I wholeheartedly disagree with a rule change that would allow anyone who is an AKC Herding judge to be nominated to judge our National Finals, regardless of their qualifications as a USBCHA competitor and/or judge. My primary concern is not in the qualifications of the person being nominated, it is in how the AKC would use the fact that one of their herding judges was asked to judge the USBCHA National Sheepdog Finals. If this is allowed, the AKC would use this to give credence to their herding program (i.e.: the AKC herding program is so exceptional that our judges are asked to judge the USBCHA National Finals). As someone who fought The Dog Wars, I feel strongly that there needs to be a complete separation of the USBCHA Finals and the AKC.


Regards to all,

nancy

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And, Nancy, well said also.

 

I was also around for the Dog Wars, and while I've never trialed I have always been 100% behind preserving the working border collie and opposed to anything that contradicts that goal. Blurring the lines between working dogs and ACK versions, whether it be in breeding or in the criteria that determine what an excellent working sheepdog is is about as contradictory as it can be IMHO.

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Restricting participation due to registration will defeat the premise that the USBCHA trials and finals should be open to all dogs, in the case of finals, all dogs that qualify. As far as removing any akc duel registered dogs, that would be up to the registry, abca.

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