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There is no question that there are two types of Border Collies now. One bred for herding, one for agility. The two are two completely different dogs! The problem now is what do we call the one that has been mutated. Border kinda Collie? Border jumping around Collie? I'm kidding about the names of course but nothing is funny about what has so obviously happened.

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Actually there are at least 3 types . . . the working bred dogs, the sports bred dogs and the show bred dogs that really aren't border collies any more. Arguably you could say that another type is the ones being bred as pets or for colors.

 

Of these types, the show bred dogs have a different registry, the AKC. We call them Barbie collies and the working registry (ABCA) will delist any dog that's dual registered with both registries if the dog gets a show championship and none of their offspring will be able to be registered with ABCA. I'm sure they'd like to delist all dual registered dogs (I'd certainly like to see that happen), but that would require manpower they simply don't have.

 

Most of the sports bred dogs are still registered with the working dog registry, but too often with little concern for working ability. We call them sporter collies and you're right, they're often quite different.

 

The pet/color bed dogs? Who knows.

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I found out not that long ago that the same thing happened to Jack Russel terriers, only in that case the AKC had to give them a different name. Wish that had happened with BCs. Now there are 3 breeds of terriers from that source: Jack Russel, Parson's Russel, and Parson's Terrier. I suppose that the only thing we could do is start calling border collies something else, but I would hate that. Real working border collies had the name first. So I am just waiting for the AKC to collapse, which perhaps some day it will, and perhaps what replaces it will be better. (I know, I am too optimistic.)

 

My brother got a Jack Russell when I was a teenager, and in the process of researching the breed I ended up on a message board not dissimilar to this one and saw the conflict over all of that. As I recall, one especially divisive issue was whether or not a particular deformity was acceptable under the breed standard. The working variant of the breed does have an appearance standard, but it's one largely geared toward preserving the dogs' working function. They expect breeders to both show and work their dogs, with higher distinction given to working ability. The AKC folks wanted to allow in their standard a form of dwarfism that results in the short-legged Puddin' Russells. The working folks disagreed, saying it clearly detracted from the intended function of the breed. Seeing all of those discussions had a formative affect on my idea of a good breeder, and I think it's served me well in the Border Collie world. (Of course, Livi came from who-knows-where, being a rescue -- but it was a no-brainer that if we'd been buying a puppy it would have been from a working breeder. I was a little relieved when the dog the rescue had for us turned out to be from a rural area and less likely to be show-bred.)

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There is no question that there are two types of Border Collies now. One bred for herding, one for agility. The two are two completely different dogs! The problem now is what do we call the one that has been mutated. Border kinda Collie? Border jumping around Collie? I'm kidding about the names of course but nothing is funny about what has so obviously happened.

The big split is between working and show border collies, if you spend some time looking at pictures of AKC collies you will see they look completly different, they are very distinctive. Most border collies doing agility are not bred specifically for that, there are though people breeding for sports, and with those dogs you can't see the difference in the looks but they are not being bred for the right reasons, and something's that make up a border collie do get lost.

 

The common nickname for show border collies is Barbie collie.

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Congrats! Pictures, please!!! I'd love to see your girl!

 

Top advice: Just love her. You'll figure out the rest as you go. It's good to be prepared, but she'll throw you curve balls anyway. It's what they do, especially BCs because they're so smart.

I have a hard time trying to figure out how to post pictures but I will give it the old college try. Thank You for the advise.

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The list of breeds ruined by the ACK just goes on and on.

 

Though I don't really see the parallel between the dichotomy between working breeds and their non-working offshoots and Chis, which have always been companion dogs.

 

I can imagine there are now health problems with Chis and other breeds as a result of breeding for various fads, including increasingly smaller sizes. And while I agree it's terrible in it's own right, it's not the same thing as diluting the working ability of a breed for the whims of people who want to show them.

No, your right, that is exactly what I was trying to say.

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Congrats! Pictures, please!!! I'd love to see your girl!

 

Top advice: Just love her. You'll figure out the rest as you go. It's good to be prepared, but she'll throw you curve balls anyway. It's what they do, especially BCs because they're so smart.

What kind of curve balls? You got me curious, lol. I'll go out on a limb here and imagine the ? I'm going to have watching her.

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What kind of curve balls? You got me curious, lol. I'll go out on a limb here and imagine the ? I'm going to have watching her.

 

We got Cal when she was 8 weeks old from a shelter I was volunteering at and we thought since she was so small we'd have no behavioral problems. Wrong, we got a resource guarder that snarled and bit (and not just puppy nibbles, she full out turned into a beast when she started guarding something. I was so shaken the first time it happened at 9 weeks old that I cried thinking I had just committed my heart to a psycho dog). It took the better part of a full year to get over it and sometimes it still comes up - we will have to be vigilant for years and years because we have a new baby that will eventually want to steal something from her jaws. 99% of the time she's perfectly ok and she deals with it..1% she'll mean growl. We haven't had any more snapping for a looooong time now, but she's done it before and it could happen again.

 

On the bright side, we've also had some really nice unexpected things. I've always wanted a dog that gave kisses and "smiled" (baring teeth on command/when happy) and we got that. She's also really funny and quirky. Some of the BC tendencies that are common like obsessiveness and herding have manifested themselves in really endearing ways with her. She won't eat her food unless it's in a metal dish and won't drink water unless it's in a glass dish (we recently had a three day hunger strike where we learned the "right" arrangement of things), she likes when we're all in the same room and makes it happen if we're not, she hates feet and freaks out if you touch her with your feet, she notices the absolute slightest differences in a room.

 

We had a little crystal hanging from the ceiling air vent on fishing line and decided to move it one day into the path of more sunlight. We never knew she noticed such little things until she stood in the doorway and growled at it for 20 min before we figured out why she was staring and growling. The growling stopped when my husband lifted her up to the ceiling to sniff it. She also barks at me if I put my work bag in the wrong spot when I get home, if we leave cereal boxes or unexpected things on the counters, or if we move furniture around.

 

She's also entirely obsessive about the baby. He's not allowed to cry - if he does and I ignore him (we're working on some sleep training), she harasses me endlessly and with increasing persistence. She'll bark from the doorway and run to check on him, return and jump onto the bed and bark before running to check on him again. The next time she returns I get a bark directly in my face and God help me if she has to come back another time because she actually grabbed me the other day and tried to drag me into his room.

 

She's the most absurd little dog and I honestly couldn't love her any more if I tried. I think she's my heart dog...I've had dogs my whole life, I love animals of all kinds dearly, and I want to say I have loved all of my dogs equally but there's just something very special about her to me.

 

Sorry for the novel... O_o

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We got Cal when she was 8 weeks old from a shelter I was volunteering at and we thought since she was so small we'd have no behavioral problems. Wrong, we got a resource guarder that snarled and bit (and not just puppy nibbles, she full out turned into a beast when she started guarding something. I was so shaken the first time it happened at 9 weeks old that I cried thinking I had just committed my heart to a psycho dog). It took the better part of a full year to get over it and sometimes it still comes up - we will have to be vigilant for years and years because we have a new baby that will eventually want to steal something from her jaws. 99% of the time she's perfectly ok and she deals with it..1% she'll mean growl. We haven't had any more snapping for a looooong time now, but she's done it before and it could happen again.

 

On the bright side, we've also had some really nice unexpected things. I've always wanted a dog that gave kisses and "smiled" (baring teeth on command/when happy) and we got that. She's also really funny and quirky. Some of the BC tendencies that are common like obsessiveness and herding have manifested themselves in really endearing ways with her. She won't eat her food unless it's in a metal dish and won't drink water unless it's in a glass dish (we recently had a three day hunger strike where we learned the "right" arrangement of things), she likes when we're all in the same room and makes it happen if we're not, she hates feet and freaks out if you touch her with your feet, she notices the absolute slightest differences in a room.

 

We had a little crystal hanging from the ceiling air vent on fishing line and decided to move it one day into the path of more sunlight. We never knew she noticed such little things until she stood in the doorway and growled at it for 20 min before we figured out why she was staring and growling. The growling stopped when my husband lifted her up to the ceiling to sniff it. She also barks at me if I put my work bag in the wrong spot when I get home, if we leave cereal boxes or unexpected things on the counters, or if we move furniture around.

 

She's also entirely obsessive about the baby. He's not allowed to cry - if he does and I ignore him (we're working on some sleep training), she harasses me endlessly and with increasing persistence. She'll bark from the doorway and run to check on him, return and jump onto the bed and bark before running to check on him again. The next time she returns I get a bark directly in my face and God help me if she has to come back another time because she actually grabbed me the other day and tried to drag me into his room.

 

She's the most absurd little dog and I honestly couldn't love her any more if I tried. I think she's my heart dog...I've had dogs my whole life, I love animals of all kinds dearly, and I want to say I have loved all of my dogs equally but there's just something very special about her to me.

 

Sorry for the novel... O_o

Oh good heavens don't be sorry I loved every word! You said it so well I felt like I could see her doing it, nice job!!! Love the part where she goes an checks comes back, barks, awesome!! Love your dog! I know that Grace will have plenty of surprises in store for me I simply can't wait. I am getting a little anxious knowing that time is coming to an end where I will have to go pick her up. Am I ready? What if I get it wrong? What if I'm the mom from hell, or she is the dog from hell?!! Oh god what have I done???? Then I think, she is a dog get a hold of yourself woman. My chihuahua has developed a peeing problem, I really think something is wrong although I have had her vet checked ultra sound, given her medicine for a urinary track infection that he said she could have had, over all going over by the vet those times and 2 or 3 more. I know my dog! this isn't like her at all! She hasn't ever peed before, its like she can't hold it, she will come to me, sit down ( that is the way she has done it always ) I get up, let her out and wa-la, but now its, get up and there is an oops before I can get her to the door. I feel for her I know she knows it's bad, but so help me there is something a miss, we just can't pin point it, bless her heart. Any ideas? or is it a quark? I don't know, everything else is fine with her, eating fine, drinking fine, ( she doesn't give a damn! where her dishes are, or what they are, lol ) she does however have the kind that match, I mean she is a chihuahua. And to think u had a novel.

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I had a girl once who did not clear up with the normally prescribed antibiotic for UTI. We did a urine culture and found a bacteria that is less often encountered in UTIs. The appropriate antibiotic (different from the first one) cleared up the UTI.

 

I would bring her in for a sterile urine sample and culture to determine precisely if anything is going on - instead of guessing as the vet did at first.

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I had a girl once who did not clear up with the normally prescribed antibiotic for UTI. We did a urine culture and found a bacteria that is less often encountered in UTIs. The appropriate antibiotic (different from the first one) cleared up the UTI.

 

I would bring her in for a sterile urine sample and culture to determine precisely if anything is going on - instead of guessing as the vet did at first.

Sounds great and I will do just that! I am a little perturbed at our vet for the guessing but he said he couldn't get a urine sample from her ( I let her pee before she went in, not knowing he wanted a sample ) Oh well. I have another appointment with them when I get Grace, Vet checked or not she is going to make sure all is well and good, I will talke Bell Bell in and tell him to give her a sterile urine sample. Can't thank you enough, I hope that's what it is.

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I had a girl once who did not clear up with the normally prescribed antibiotic for UTI. We did a urine culture and found a bacteria that is less often encountered in UTIs. The appropriate antibiotic (different from the first one) cleared up the UTI.

 

I would bring her in for a sterile urine sample and culture to determine precisely if anything is going on - instead of guessing as the vet did at first.

 

It sounds like incontinence. Is she spayed?

No, she isn't should I get her spayed? She is 6 years old and we aren't breeders by any stretch of the imagination, plus she is to old now. She has never had sex.

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Sounds great and I will do just that! I am a little perturbed at our vet for the guessing but he said he couldn't get a urine sample from her ( I let her pee before she went in, not knowing he wanted a sample ) Oh well. I have another appointment with them when I get Grace, Vet checked or not she is going to make sure all is well and good, I will talke Bell Bell in and tell him to give her a sterile urine sample. Can't thank you enough, I hope that's what it is.

You may be able to get a 'clean catch' urine sample before your next vet visit. [it should be as fresh as possible. Maybe a sample from that morning, or the night before, and keep in the fridge.] It might be a little difficult to get as you have to put a clean container under the dog to catch the urine before it hits the ground. Some dogs are offended and will stop and move away.

 

What I refer to as a sterile urine sample is when the vet uses a needle to insert into the bladder to get the urine.

 

I am not saying that this is the reason for the peeing, but at least it would cross one alternative off the list.

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You may be able to get a 'clean catch' urine sample before your next vet visit. [it should be as fresh as possible. Maybe a sample from that morning, or the night before, and keep in the fridge.] It might be a little difficult to get as you have to put a clean container under the dog to catch the urine before it hits the ground. Some dogs are offended and will stop and move away.

 

What I refer to as a sterile urine sample is when the vet uses a needle to insert into the bladder to get the urine.

 

I am not saying that this is the reason for the peeing, but at least it would cross one alternative off the list.

Oh, sorry...blonde......I see. Well, we will cross it off, I will do anything for her. I have taken her to this vet since we received her, I know he is a large animal vet but I hope he just doesn't chalk this up to a chihuahua quark like he has in the past...I want him to know this is not her normal nor do I intend for it to be her new normal! something has to give.

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