Trooper has a Diagnosis.

[kingfisher7151]

Trooper died from Trapped Neutrophil Syndrome.

 

I can't believe we finally have an answer, but we have it. I was contacted by his breeder saying another dog from his litter was exhibiting the same signs. I got in contact with the owner and her dog is showing the exact same symptoms as Trooper, but no kidney failure yet. The owner works for a specialist vet, and the dog was tested and confirmed to be a positive case of TNS.

 

Her dog waxes and wanes between 105 and 106 degree fevers, lameness and inflamed joints, has to be on daily prednisone, lethargy, and periods of no symptoms, she's the exact same dog. I can say with 100% certainty that Trooper had TNS.

 

And a simple genetic test before breeding could have prevented so much pain and suffering.

 

TNS is 100% fatal. Affected dogs tend to succumb to subsequent infection from a weakened immune system. Many just seem to fade away without a clear cause of death. Severely affected pups often show cranial deformities with long, narrow, ferret-like skulls. They are often undersized with fine, crooked bones. They can also exhibit varying amounts of mental retardation, which Trooper pretty solidly had.

 

I can't say I know how I feel about having a diagnosis. Relieved...I think? It wasn't our fault.

[ShoresDog]

Thank you for sharing this information. You did everything you could for Trooper -- it was *never* your fault -- but the poor guy didn't have a chance. I would hope more dogs would be tested, since the labs that test border collie DNA for other genes, e.g., CEA, do have the capability to test for TNS.

[Tommy Coyote]

How awful. But you have an answer and that helps. Poor breeder. I have to back a d read that thread. I had never heard of it.

[Tommy Coyote]

Was Trooper from working lines?

[Guest Jule]

I am very sorry for your loss. Such a tragedy for you and the dog that could have been avoided. Here in Australia any half decent registered breeder will test for TNS in their breeding stock. It is standard for registered breeders to advertise as follows- All pups guaranteed to be clear from CL, CEA & TNS by DNA testing or parentage.

Our primary web page for the purchase of registered pups of all breeds is called dogsonline. When you go to dogsonline-bordercollies, you see a highlighted message warning to only purchase dogs cleared of CL, CEA & TNS. I came across one breeder who requires you to fill out a questionnaire before they will sell you a pup. One of the questions is- What are the 3 main genetic illnesses of a Border Collie ? Basically if you don't know enough about the breed to answer this question you are not acquiring a pup from this particular breeder, but this is an extreme not a norm.

 

There are two separate camps. Those who totally support the ideal that dogs should only be bread by registered breeders and those who feel supporters of registered breeding is just about snobbery and money. The second camp buy from "backyard breeders" who most often ( in Australia at least ) don't even have a clue what they are really doing let alone do hip scores and DNA testing of their breeding stock, but the price is right.

 

I don't have any sympathy for backyard breeders who know so little about the breed that they do not carry out the simple tests to clear their breeding stock of illnesses that could be wiped out if due care was taken. I feel very sorry for the unsuspecting buyer who makes the mistake of buying a pup from such a breeder. It is a tragedy and it is the buyer and the dog that needlessly suffer.

 

I am very sorry that you have been the victim of an ignorant breeder. Whether it is a registered breeder or backyard breeder their is no excuse for not doing these tests. It is simply responsible breeding and very inexpensive. It is understandable that many buyers may not be aware of these illnesses but it is unforgivable that breeders do not educate themselves before jumping in and breeding dogs.

 

German Shepherds are one such breed that it now plagued with genetic illnesses mainly due to it's popularity and uneducated people randomly breeding them. God forbid that the Border Collie goes down the same route.

[Tommy Coyote]

We just another thread on TNS. TNS is not common here. That'S why I was so surprised to hear that dianosis. People don't normally test for it.

[kingfisher7151]

TNS is quite uncommon here, and is not commonly tested for. In fact there's a recent thread where most people don't feel the need to test for it. I hold no animosity towards the breeder. Do I wish she had tested? Absolutely. But it's so uncommonly done here that she's just part of the vast majority who don't test. I've also made peace with the incident, I don't want to spend my time feeling angry about it. Sometimes life's best lessons are the hardest ones.

 

Trooper was from working lines. Not great ones, but working lines nevertheless. He was ABCA registered with absolutely no hint of show lines. Both of his parents were used on their hobby ranch and had been sent off for training.

[Maralynn]

Thank you for updating us. I hope this knowledge does bring you a sense of peace and closure. It's one thing *knowing* we did all we could, but I find it comforting when this knowledge is confirmed again.

[gcv-border]

Thank you for the update. I am sorry that Trooper had this diagnosis, but you did everything you could. Unfortunately, this is one of those times when the end game can not be avoided.

 

I hope that the breeder will be honest with all her puppy buyers of that litter - just in case someone is thinking about breeding their pup (when it matures). I also hope that she will test both parents to determine the source(s).

[GentleLake]

I also hope that she will test both parents to determine the source(s).

 

The gene (or gene variation) for TNS is recessive, right? If so, then both parents are now known carriers w/ no testing necessary to determine that.

 

If the disease is fatal in dogs (puppies actually) with 2 copies of the gene, then this also speaks to the parents' status of carrying only one copy of the gene and not two.

 

Kingfisher, it was never your fault. You did everything you could to save Trooper and to make him comfortable.

[Root Beer]

It really was never your fault. You moved heaven and earth to try to help Trooper.

 

That said - I know what you mean. It is good to know for sure.

[kingfisher7151]

Thank you for all your kind words.

 

TNS is recessive, so both parents were carriers. Both parents were neutered/spayed a while ago, as soon as Trooper started having problems that looked genetic in nature. She has handled everything properly, and I applaud her for being mature about the issue. They essentially scrapped their program after this. The two remaining unrelated dogs are currently awaiting the results of every genetic test known to man, as well as OFA results. She was as torn up about this as we were.

[Tommy Coyote]

That would be awful for a breeder.

[Guest Jule]

TNS is quite uncommon here, and is not commonly tested for. In fact there's a recent thread where most people don't feel the need to test for it. I hold no animosity towards the breeder. Do I wish she had tested? Absolutely. But it's so uncommonly done here that she's just part of the vast majority who don't test. I've also made peace with the incident, I don't want to spend my time feeling angry about it. Sometimes life's best lessons are the hardest ones.

 

Trooper was from working lines. Not great ones, but working lines nevertheless. He was ABCA registered with absolutely no hint of show lines. Both of his parents were used on their hobby ranch and had been sent off for training.

TNS is also very uncommon here in Australia. I largely attribute this to the tendency of both Working and Show line breeders to keep DNA testing as routine. It is so inexpensive and while the illness exists at all no matter how uncommon, why not simply do it ? It is wonderful that you are now at peace with what has happened and I also applaud the actions the breeder has since taken.

Sharing your story is such a good thing and it would be wonderful to think that Troopers legacy might be to create greater awareness and reignite discussions on this simple test with the possibility of reinstating such testing as routine.

 

PS Just for the record, while I talk of "show lines" for the purpose of this discussion, breeding any creature just for "show" is a practice beyond my comprehension and I feel it is largely responsible for bringing about the downfall of any breed or species for that matter.

[kingfisher7151]

I absolutely agree with you, it should be tested for. I understand where breeders can say "the risk is so low, why spend hundreds per litter to test for it?" But after going through what we did, I have a much stronger view on testing. One affected pup is too many.

 

I do hope his story spreads some awareness. Both for breeders who think they're immune to genetic diseases, and to vets who are unfamiliar with breed-specific diseases.

[LauraV]

I have been following yours and Trooper's thread since you first posted about his kidneys. I am truly sorry for your loss. I do, however, want to thank you for bringing awareness to this disease. I've been a border collie owner for years and I'm always researching the breed. I have never heard of this disease until now. Hopefully, more breeders will consider testing for this disease. There is more to the border collie than eyes and hips.

[Sue R]

Knowing what was the cause is helpful. The breeder seems to have responded responsibly. Thank you for sharing your experience and bringing the existence of this disease to our attention in a very personal way. In the long run, I hope good will come out of your loss if only in promoting awareness amongst members of these boards and those they interact with. And I hope that will be a comfort to you.

[Journey]

Ah, Kingfisher, I'm sorry and glad you have a diagnosis. TNS is basically rare in the working world. Rare as not many test for it and its not commonly spoken about. Yes, your breeder did the right thing. I'm sorry you've had to deal with it. I know of 1 other working dog who is a TNS carrier, that's how little its known of in the working world. Can you post Troopers pedigree? It would be educational for all as TNS just isn't that well known in the working world. Knowing sire and dam have been taken out of the breeding pool it would be nice, imo, to see where the gene came from in his pedigree.

[kingfisher7151]

I'd post his pedigree, but unfortunately I don't have it. He was returned to the breeder at 3 months old and the original owners never bothered returning the papers. If there's a strong enough reason I can probably get his copy back, or use the papers of the other dog with TNS from his litter. Given that this other owner is currently watching her dog die, I don't think it's entirely appropriate. He wasn't particularly well bred. Other than a dash of McCallum far enough back there's no well known lines or breeders.

 

I'm just surprised at how innocently the genes can be passed. I have a half brother to Trooper, and both dogs came from a litter of nine. Out of a total of 18 pups, there're likely 9 pups with at least 2 copies. 2 are affected, but potentially 7 dogs are out there with this gene. My dog has been started on stock, and I've had a large number of people asking to breed to him. I'll never, ever breed him. But what if I did? I could have innocently passed this on. And these dogs are the furthest thing from AKC lines. It's just out there hiding, and until a "real deal" breeder has a pup with it I don't think it'll be taken seriously.

[Journey]

Ah, Kingfisher, you are correct, bad timing. However, w/o testing you cannot assume there are any other affected pups. Yes, sire and dam are carriers but that does not mean any/all pups got the carrier gene from each. So, your half brother could be clear. It's an unknown until you test. If the other pups are thriving it'd be a good guess they are simple carriers, if not clear, as you know now, dogs with TNS don't thrive/live very long. It's a sad state all the way around, I'm sorry.

[Crawford Dogs]

I'm so sorry. You did the best you could do with Trooper and gave him a good life. He was a very lucky boy to have gotten the care he did.

As Journey said I wouldn't assume your other dog is a carrier without doing testing. If he is a carrier and you do decide to breed him down the road be honest with the owner of the dam and the puppy buyers. As long as the dog he was bred to was clear and the puppy buyers were told you should be fine. I've had dogs with a slight chance of being CEA carriers (but no chance of being affected) and was ok with it. Obviously if I'd bred a possible carrier I'd have done a DNA test first.

[mum24dog]

Imagine if every carrier of a genetic condition were neutered. What would that do to genetic diversity? I'm told that some excellent working lines have been lost that way.

 

When I told the breeder I got my pup from that mine was definitely IGS affected his first reaction was to say that he should take the sire out of his breeding programme. The bitch was already retired.

 

I told him that it wasn't strictly necessary as it was the same as CEA - OK to breed from a carrier as long as the other is clear.

 

But knowledge is needed and until there is more testing there is no way that anyone can know how common a condition may be within a population and how essential testing for each condition may be.

 

I was lucky in that although IGS is potentially fatal, and nearly was in my dog's case, it is easily fixable. Both parents have tested clear for TNS but on the basis of vet advice received IGS had not been tested for.

 

I take the same view as kingfisher. I don't blame the breeder, it's what happens in future as a result of our misfortune that matters.

[mum24dog]

I'd post his pedigree, but unfortunately I don't have it. He was returned to the breeder at 3 months old and the original owners never bothered returning the papers. If there's a strong enough reason I can probably get his copy back, or use the papers of the other dog with TNS from his litter. Given that this other owner is currently watching her dog die, I don't think it's entirely appropriate. He wasn't particularly well bred. Other than a dash of McCallum far enough back there's no well known lines or breeders.

 

I'm just surprised at how innocently the genes can be passed. I have a half brother to Trooper, and both dogs came from a litter of nine. Out of a total of 18 pups, there're likely 9 pups with at least 2 copies. 2 are affected, but potentially 7 dogs are out there with this gene. My dog has been started on stock, and I've had a large number of people asking to breed to him. I'll never, ever breed him. But what if I did? I could have innocently passed this on. And these dogs are the furthest thing from AKC lines. It's just out there hiding, and until a "real deal" breeder has a pup with it I don't think it'll be taken seriously.

Statistically from a carrier x carrier mating there will be 25 per cent clear, 25 per cent affected with two copies of the gene and 50 per cent carrier with just one copy. Two affected out of a litter of 9 is about right.

 

You know those odds will apply to Trooper's litter but they may not to his half brother's if his dam is clear. If that is the case the odds would be 50:50 clear to carrier.

[kingfisher7151]

I don't think it'd be appropriate to speuter all carriers. That would wipe out 10% of the gene pool! But if these genes are out there, we need to test for them. It doesn't cost much, I can't really see any reason not to test.

 

My alarm was largely that there's a 50% chance my dog is a carrier. I've had half a dozen breeding requests for him. If he's a carrier, I could have unknowingly produced more affected pups. (He's not a breeding prospect, this is strictly hypothetical.) It would have killed me to have produced more Troopers.

 

Like your litter, the dam was already retired after this litter. But the breeder spayed and neutered both parents before having a diagnosis, on the assumption that it was a genetic condition. The sire also produced a pup in Keeper's litter with severe HD by 4 months old. It seemed appropriate to neuter him. And Keeper is getting radiographs on Monday...

 

There's also a chance that the dam produced one other TNS affected puppy from another litter. But that pup was stolen at 4 months old in the wee hours of the morning, so we'll never know for sure. She had just started doing some funny limping and acting off, which they assumed was pano. But with the recent news, it wouldn't be too horrible of a stretch thinking it could have been TNS, this pup had the same exact onset as the two affected ones. Different sire though, wiith unknown genetic status.