Weird dog training advice

[D'Elle]

I have heard most of these crazy things, but the gunpowder in the food is a first for me!

Don't let your dogs bark, don't let them on the furniture, don't let them put their paws on you - ever - , don't tug.....

and so on.

One thing I was told years ago is: "never give in to a request from your dog, not even if he asks to be let outside. It will just make him think he can get whatever he wants any time and you won't be the boss any more. Make him wait five minutes, then let him out."

Fortunately I ignored that.

I've been told to do "alpha roll-overs" with one of my small dogs because he sometimes snarks at another dog. Again, fortunately, I decided years ago that the Monks of New Skete, while meaning well, were sadly misinformed when they wrote their books and probably did more harm than good.

Like others have said here, I guess I am doing everything wrong, but my dogs are happy. They sleep on the bed, get on the couch, eat before I do most of the time, and can ask me for things if they want to (not that I always give them what they want immediately - unless it is to go outside to potty.) They get to express their opinions to me about something and, if it is something they dislike and it is not important that I make them do it, I don't. We are a family. I am in charge but I don't have to be a Nazi about it.

[simba]

I heard a lot of 'never let the dog walk in front of you, he needs to walk beside you or behind you' today. I didn't know it was still current. Any truth to it?

 

I was thinking maybe with a bossy or new dog it might be a precautionary thing. Mine always are taught not to keep any tension in the lead, not to lunge suddenly, move out of the way of people walking (hardest thing to teach them for some reason) and beyond that do what you like. Basically, "Don't get in my way, be polite, and don't do anything that interferes with my or other people's walking."

[Cass C]

I to my knowledge most positive reinforcement trainers say to use loose leash, which is just no tension on the leash be that in front of, behind, or beside you. Unless you're teaching a heel and then they need to be beside you.

[rushdoggie]

The other day a trainer told me it was wise to not let a pup or dog interact with other dogs, as he would value that interaction more than the interaction with the owner (he wasn't talking about other household dogs, but about dogs one meets on walks or training). Although I understand where he's coming from, I've always allowed my dogs, actually encouraged them, to meet, greet and play with other dogs, provided they like each other, as it seems to me a dog won't learn dog etiquette unless he can practice. I also teach "we can ignore other passing dogs", but I want my dogs to learn how to play politely and interact apropriately, so they must have the regular chance to do so. And they seem to like it too.

 

I don't think its an issue when dogs learn contexts in which dog-dog interaction is fine and when they should pay attention to their humans. I do let my dogs play with other dogs that I have carefully screened in safe areas where the purpose of the activity is not training.

 

I do sometimes see adolescent dogs in my pet classes whose owners have let them run up to and play with every dog they see everywhere no matter what and the dog is really incapable of acknowledging the human. The human then either get angry and frustrated with the dog or even weirder, they let the dog drag them around the room with a goofy grin on their faces saying "oh hes just so darn friendly!" I have a 95 lb owner with a 100 lb pittie mix right now who does this and he is super sweet but he scares the pants off the other dogs and people and his human is so proud of her "sweet baby" that she does not do a very good job keeping him from running up to other dogs dragging her along.

 

A saavy owner has no trouble with this, but yeah, some pet people create problems.

[vireyda]

http://suzanneclothier.com/the-articles/hostages-relationships This seems relevant here

This article describes that sort of thing perfectly. Thank you for sharing. It put all the weirded out gross feelings into words.

[GentleLake]

Coming to this conversation late, but wanted to add that I've herd the thing about feeding gunpowder to guard dogs, too. The reasoning I heard was that it kept the dogs' stomachs so irritated that they were constantly on edge and in a bad mood, making them more aggressive. I guess I can believe it 'cause I know I can be grumpy when I don't feel well, but what an awful thing to do to a dog.

[simba]

Border collies need a minimum of ten miles' exercise per day.

 

Every dog needs at least ten kongs or similar, and should be fed 2-4 of them stuffed with food per day. I rather suspect that last bit of advice was inserted into the training book by my dog when I wasn't looking.

 

Edit: it's not that that's bad advice. It's just that that's, what, 60-100+ quid worth of toys? I mean, I am a crazy doglady but...

[Root Beer]

Every dog needs at least ten kongs or similar, and should be fed 2-4 of them stuffed with food per day. I rather suspect that last bit of advice was inserted into the training book by my dog when I wasn't looking.

 

HAHAHAH!! I think all of our dogs got together and stuffed that one in there!!

[GentleLake]

^^ Nope. Not Bodhi. His version is "just give me the food!" As much of a food hound as he is (IME former starving strays are the worst beggars invented) he's rarely willing to work hard enough to get all the food out of a Kong.

[Cass C]

I'm lucky with Kongs. Lily refuses to get the easy food out, but loves tossing it around to get the hard to get stuff to fly out and Lyka refuses to work for the food so she just gets the Kongs to the point she can't easily get food and then let's Lily have it. Just for the record they always get their own Kongs, but this is the routine they worked out with them.

[GentleLake]

^^ Yeah, Tansy always gets Bodhi's leftovers, too. I've gotten to the point that if I give them Kongs, which isn't very often anymore, I'll just pack his lightly and not tamp anything down.

[Jexa]

I'm surprised there's not more mention of "border collies need AT LEAST XX number (usually something ridiculous) hours of exercise A DAY. EVERY DAY. YES EVEN MONDAY!" I've had several people make a face when they find out I have border collies and say something to the effect of "how do you find enough time to give them all the exercise they need??". Uh, I dont?

 

My dogs love to be out and active with me, and frequently are, but they don't NEED excessive exercise every day. They're pretty damn content to snooze on the couch!

[kingfisher7151]

I hear the X number of hours a day too, and I always laugh. People act like if they don't run for 6 hours straight they're gonna EXPLODE.

[TxMom]

Livi will work at a kong for peanut butter (even frozen), but if I try something like mixing her kibble with peanut butter she'll get the easy stuff and give up on the rest pretty quickly.

 

The exercise thing is what I've run into so far. Every time I told people we were getting a Border Collie they'd give me The Look of sympathy and tell me they hoped I knew what I was doing (actually, it reminded me a little of being pregnant with #3).

[Root Beer]

(IME former starving strays are the worst beggars invented) he's rarely willing to work hard enough to get all the food out of a Kong.

 

That's funny - I have always attributed Tessa's love for hunting and working for her food to the fact that she was a stray.

 

She adores her Lotus Ball - would rather work for that and have the chance to dig her food out of it than for me to hand her treats!!

 

Of course, it could just be her personality, but I've always imagined that hunting for food was actually part of life on the streets that she really took to.

 

Granted, different dogs often respond differently to the same circumstances.

[Root Beer]

The exercise thing is what I've run into so far. Every time I told people we were getting a Border Collie they'd give me The Look of sympathy and tell me they hoped I knew what I was doing (actually, it reminded me a little of being pregnant with #3).

 

HAHAHA!! I got a bit of that when I was planning to get Bandit. And the look of incredulity when I assured the person that I did, in fact, know what I was doing.

 

Apparently, raising Speedy from puppyhood and taking on the 10 month old wild and untrained Dean Dog did not give me any clue whatsoever as to what raising and owning a Border Collie would be like.

[Tommy Coyote]

That exercise myth has really hurt a lot of young border collies. Their owners have unknowingly exercised them way too much and really did a lot of damage to their young dogs joints and muscles.

[rushdoggie]

That exercise myth has really hurt a lot of young border collies. Their owners have unknowingly exercised them way too much and really did a lot of damage to their young dogs joints and muscles.

 

And also built in a habit of their dogs needing constant attention and exercise. I know several people who have taught their dogs to be annoying and have no off switch.

[simba]

I had a friend give out to me for not paying attention to a young obnoxious dog. I had the dog's lead, was chatting away to the humans, the little dog decided to cry for my attention, I asked her to stop and continued talking. So she whined. "Will you not say hello to the poor dog?"

 

It probably looked like I was being really mean. I just didn't want to reward her for whining. She can get attention once she's sitting quietly, or holding it together in the face of a Scary Thing or whatever.

[D'Elle]

I had a friend give out to me for not paying attention to a young obnoxious dog. I had the dog's lead, was chatting away to the humans, the little dog decided to cry for my attention, I asked her to stop and continued talking. So she whined. "Will you not say hello to the poor dog?"

 

It probably looked like I was being really mean. I just didn't want to reward her for whining. She can get attention once she's sitting quietly, or holding it together in the face of a Scary Thing or whatever.

Well, yes, along with the Weird Training Advice comes the Weird Criticisms On Training comments.

 

I used to go hiking once or twice a week with Jes and Kit (I would still, but at 15 and 14 years of age respectively they just can't do it any more). Each of them had a backpack, well fitted to the body, and they carried their own water and snacks on our hikes, which would sometimes last several hours. The weight was not that much, and I always made sure the water was evenly distributed in the panniers on either side. The straps were extra-padded by my own additions of flannel cloth to make sure they did not rub. Honestly, I think that those dogs barely noticed that they had the packs on.

 

I cannot tell you how many times I would be on the trail and someone would come along and criticize me heavily for making the "poor dog" carry a pack. "You are so mean! Making the dog carry everything!" (This, despite the obvious fact that I was wearing my own full pack). Of course, I learned just to pretend I was deaf and keep walking on by, but it rankled every time.

 

And then there was the time when I took Jes into a library when he was new to me, and asked him to sit at my feet at the desk. The clerk looked at me and said "What do you mean, "sit"? " I replied that I was training my dog. She looked pityingly at Jester and said, in a saccharine voice "OH you poor thing! Do you want to come to my house and live where you won't be trained?", the final word spoken in the same voice one might use if the word were "tortured", or "starved".

<sigh>

[Cass C]

I can only imagine what her untrained house of dogs would be like...

[Tommy Coyote]

Probably like mine. My dogs pretty much trained themselves because I hate to yrain. The are amazingly well behaved as long as there aren't any guests.

[Pam Wolf]

Weird training-since I started obedience in the 'dark ages' I saw quite a few things. Ear pinch to teach retrieving. Saw a video in Cabela's once where the poor pointer was standing on a narrow board which had been attached to a couple poles so the dog was off the ground a couple of feet The dog had a noose on it's neck strung up so it was barely able to keep it's toes on the board. They had a string tied around one of the front toes-Silly me I thought this was some way to teach a point. They then proceeded to shock the dog the max length of time the shock collar allowed. If the dog did not reach for the training dummy they then pulled the string inflicting more pain til the dog went to bite and took got the training dummy that was held in front of it. This was advertised as guaranteed to teach a fantastic retrieve!

 

Alligators-boards with nails hammered into them so they come out the other side. Place the boards on the ground between the boards of the broad jump to teach your dog to not walk through the jump.

 

Drag a dog backwards by grasping it around it's waist and that will teach it to back up

 

There is lots of bad advice-methods to torture dogs into 'behaving'. I have worked with kids training dogs for many years, and am constantly surprised at some of the things kids can get away with when training their dogs. If adults did these things they usually get bitten, but somehow the kids just expect the dog to do what they are trying and often it works.

[D'Elle]

somehow the kids just expect the dog to do what they are trying and often it works.

I started training my dog when I was about 10. I had no books or advice and had no idea how to train a dog, but I wanted him to do this and that, and so I showed him what I wanted and every time he made even a slight move in the right direction I would praise the heck out of him. It worked, and I taught him so many behaviors that he could have been a circus dog. I now see that what I was doing was positive reinforcement training, although I didn't use a clicker, or treats, just "good dog!". I think it helped that I was just a kid because to me it was a game, and so my dog saw it the same way.

 

When I was a few years older I took the dog to formal obedience training classes, where they told me that the way to do things was with a choke collar, so I did that. And for years that is all I knew to do. I look back at that and wish I had never taken that class. If I had just done it the way I taught him everything else it would have been so much better. But of course I was just a kid so I figured the adult professionals had to know best.

[gcv-border]

Weird training-. Ear pinch to teach retrieving.

A friend (both of us were living in NJ at the time - only about 9 years ago) has a Welshie 'trained' in agility. One of the places she went for "instruction" used the ear pinch to get him to pay attention during class. Guess who doesn't like to do agility anymore? She had to retire him early because he just walked the course. Everyone could tell he was miserable. She tried to make him happy about agility, but I think the damage had already been done.