Mouthy puppy

[TxMom]

I'm pretty sure I'm on the right track on this, but I want to check myself because it's going to be much easier if we do it right from the beginning than if I have to go back and undo mistakes later.

 

Livi, being a puppy, gets mouthy. First time gets a gentle, "no" and I remove my hand, foot, whatever from her mouth. If it keeps going, I'll do more or less what I did with my kids at a similar developmental stage, which is to put gently my hand under her chin, look her in the eyes, and repeat "no." I'm not pulling her face around or forcing anything, just making her take a moment to pause and hear me, if that makes sense. And I'm not using an angry tone, just a serious one. If that doesn't stop it, it's the crate for a time out. If that doesn't do it, I assume she's getting overtired and crate her for a nap. Usually she falls asleep right away and wakes up with better behavior.

 

Today, she and my 7-year-old were playing the the backyard. He tossed a stick for her. She ran after it, brought it back, and flopped down in front of him to chew on it. He reached down to pick it up and she put her mouth on his hand. Definitely not biting, no force involved, no growling, just being a puppy. But I'd like to make sure it stops there. Should I start by teaching her a "give" command (trading a treat for whatever is in her mouth, then adding a cue), or is there a different approach that would work better? She does the same thing when I try to brush her, for that matter, and I'm working with her on building up tolerance a little at a time.

 

By the way, the vet put her age between 3 1/2 and 4 months based on her teeth (four adult incisors, but not all six yet). Just in case that's relevant.

[Maralynn]

Sounds like you're on the right track. Like with kids, naps work wonders for pups! I'm assuming that she has plenty of available chew toys? Teething can increase the mouthiness.

 

Trading up is an excellent idea. With kids, I'd have them giving her another object or treat before reaching for the toy - have them be as proactive as possible. They won't always remember but it's a good goal to work for!

[GentleLake]

Most people I know advise when a puppy nips or gets mouthy to shriek "ouch!" and withdraw attention for a few minutes till they settle down. This is how they learn bite inhibition in their litters. The other puppy screams and stops playing with them. They soon learn to control the biting or else they're not going to have any playmates any more.

 

And, yes, trading up is a great thing to start right away!

[gcv-border]

I agree with both responders above, but do want to say that these are behaviors that will take a time to overcome. Just be patient and consistent.

[geonni banner]

Most people I know advise when a puppy nips or gets mouthy to shriek "ouch!" and withdraw attention for a few minutes till they settle down. This is how they learn bite inhibition in their litters. The other puppy screams and stops playing with them. They soon learn to control the biting or else they're not going to have any playmates any more.

 

And, yes, trading up is a great thing to start right away!

That's what I do. If I feel teeth, I shriek. No matter how little it hurts.

[TxMom]

I've got no problem waiting this out -- I expected this phase when we decided to go with a puppy rather than an adult, and that's no biggie. Just wanted to be sure my reactions were right, particularly with her trying to keep my son from taking her stick.

 

Ouch and withdrawal of attention, trading up, naps when needed. Check!

[gcv-border]

OH, and as far as it taking time to conquer the 'drop it' or 'give it' command, I think that starting earlier in age, rather than later, will be beneficial.

 

I didn't really start seriously training a 'drop it' until Torque was about 6 months old. (He wasn't a bitey puppy, although he was a serious chewer once he got a toy to himself.) I did a couple of things wrong: waiting until he was 'older' and more determined and trying to train a drop it with a very high value object (tennis ball). I should have used a low value object to begin with and trade for a higher value object or give him a high-value treat. NOTHING was more high value than that tennis ball.

 

A LOT of trying to get him to drop it by showing him another tennis ball or a treat or dancing around and playing with another toy. Maybe 4-6 months before I got a really good and fast 'drop it'.

[waffles]

With our puppy, if she got mouthy we just put something in her mouth that was appropriate. So she would come over and put my hand in her mouth, I would reach down and put a toy in her mouth. Most times she would happily trot away with her toy. Or I would ask for a sit, then grab a toy and put it in her mouth.

 

For drop it, I agree to always start with a low value object. You can wait for her to naturally drop the object then say drop and reward. Or lure her into dropping the object by showing her a higher value object. As she drops it, say the cue and reward. With the stick situation, you may want to begin by just approaching her and dropping something yummy for her. Don't take the stick. Teach her that your approach doesn't mean the stick is taken away. I did this with both my dogs as they eat raw and of course a hunk of meat is quite valuable. I normally never have to remove food but want to be able to if I have to. So for awhile I would just approach and drop more food for them. Eventually before I even taught anything else, they would see me approach and naturally move away/pause from the food they already have or at least drop it and look at me to see what more I was giving.

[Maralynn]

I never used the yelp method. I honestly yelled once when Kolt pounced on my foot with sharp teeth but teeth on skin didn't get a response. I would give him something else to chew on. And rewarded self control. He's got excellent bite inhibition now even though he *loves* to bite and tug. He targets the toy and actively avoids teeth on hands.

[Root Beer]

I let Bandit mouth me some. I actually liked it, and so did he. I allowed it until it got to be too much, or I got sick of it, and then I would divert him to a toy. If he could not stop mouthing to go play with something else, then I knew he was tired and needed some nap time in his crate.

 

At a certain point he just stopped mouthing. Every now and then he and I will play "bitey" with my arm - he will mouth my arm gently, and I will make a fake "mouth" of my hand and gently "bite" him back with it. He is very gentle and he loves it, but he will only do it very rarely. He prefers to play bitey face with Dean, a dog who can reciprocate properly!!

 

Like Mara, I never used the yelp method. If it really hurt and an "ow" was spontaneous, that was fine, but I never made a choice to do that - the method just doesn't suit me.

 

He has beautiful bite inhibition and he tries to avoid my hands in toy play. Accidents happen, but it is plain to me that he is actively working to get the toy, not my hand.

[GentleLake]

 

For drop it, I agree to always start with a low value object. You can wait for her to naturally drop the object then say drop and reward. Or lure her into dropping the object by showing her a higher value object. As she drops it, say the cue and reward. With the stick situation, you may want to begin by just approaching her and dropping something yummy for her. Don't take the stick. Teach her that your approach doesn't mean the stick is taken away. I did this with both my dogs as they eat raw and of course a hunk of meat is quite valuable. I normally never have to remove food but want to be able to if I have to. So for awhile I would just approach and drop more food for them. Eventually before I even taught anything else, they would see me approach and naturally move away/pause from the food they already have or at least drop it and look at me to see what more I was giving.

 

I do take whatever object it is whenever the pup (or dog) is distracted by whatever it is you're offering instead. I want the dog to willingly give it to me. But I also give the item back 99% of the time, especially during the training stages. This teaches the pup that, yes, it's safe and fun to give the human whatever I have. I get something really yummy and I get my [toy, food, whatever] back to play with or eat some more. Big win/win for the dog, who learns happily to gve you whatever she has in her mouth.

 

Of course if it's something dangerous or that I really don't want the dog to have, then I'll replace it with something else that's either fun or yummy as a distraction, at least while they're learning. Once established I may not always follow through with something else it it's an inappropriate object, though by that time that doesn't happen very often.

[PSmitty]

Like waffles said, I like to offer an appropriate chewing toy when the puppy mouths. Shrieking never really made a lot of difference ("oooh, Mom is yelling, something must be exciting!"), but withdrawing attention seemed to work. Biggest thing is to be patient, so much of it is just the age and it'll take months to get better, but you can manage with everything that's being mentioned.

 

And lastly, my mantra the last few months... They make puppies cute so you don't kill them.

[GentleLake]

I've also shoved an appropriate chew toy into the puppy's mouth when it's being mouthy. I think for me the difference between the that and yelling "ouch" in a high pitched voice is whether the pup's mouthing to be chewing or whether it's just bitten down to hard in play.

 

Substituting an appropriate chew toy when the puppy's being mouthy teaches the dog that humans, people's shoes, electrical wires, etc., etc., etc. aren't appropriate chew toys and what things are OK to chew on instead.

 

Shrieking "Ow!" and removing attention when a puppy bites down too hard teaches the puppy bite inhibition.

 

To my way of thinking these are two distinctly separate lessons that warrant different approaches. Some people, like Root Beer, enjoy playing mouthy games with their dogs. In that case learning how hard it's OK to bite down is an important lesson that's totally different from teaching the pup not to put its mouth on a human at all.

[waffles]

I do as well, take the object away and give it back. But sometimes, depending on the situation I may start by not taking it away at all and just rewarding my approach (i.e. With raw food).

 

Like the OP's puppy and the stick, it may be better to not actually take the stick until she is offering that behavior on her own. Say, if the dog tenses and holds its mouth on the object while looking at you out of the corner of her eye, that may be a situation where I would not take it away. Build up to where she is comfortable with you approaching so she doesn't tense up, Then, take away and give it back.

[rushdoggie]

What I tell my Puppy Class owners is that I have found that puppies who develop a fondness for toys seldom are problem biters during this environmental stage. I teach them hw to get puppy to chase a toy (wiggle on the ground like a critter, don't always take it from them, play Trade for cookies, teach "out" and play toy exchange) and when puppy gets into the terrible mouthing everything stages you can easily stuff toys in his mouth.

 

Also, often when puppies are out of control biting, its because they are over stimulated and/or super tired and need a bit of crate/pen time with a frozen stuffed Kong or chewie and usually they pass out cold within 5 minutes.

 

With my own dogs, I do play "bitey" games, because I think its fun but I don't have little kids and I find odd things fun, so I don't usually teach it to others.

 

YMMV, but I have never found the yelping to do very much. Often it seems to amp puppy up. If puppy is not addicted to toys yet, I either walk away, or pick him up and give him a 2 minute time out to withdraw myself. I prefer the toy thing. I see teh puppies get wound and start looking for a toy to bring you!

 

I also like it in homes with kids because puppy only plays with kids with toys, so kids don't get nipped and puppy stops leaping on them.

[geonni banner]

I find that the folks who find shrieking to be ineffective are often also people who do a lot of high-pitched, excited sounds when playing with, greeting and encouraging pups. For them, shrieking doesn't work because it isn't much different from what the pup hears all the time. Especially at playtime. I tend to pitch my voice low when talking to pups because I find that it makes them less squirrely in general. So if a pup puts it's teeth on me I yelp, shriek, squall, whatever you want to call it - but it's a sound of pain. It's very different from what they usually hear from me, and the pups get it.

 

YMMV

[TxMom]

All good food for thought! Thanks, y'all!

 

On the toy front, she seems to have times she really like them and times she doesn't care much even if I'm wiggling it on the ground, playing with it, and generally trying to make it look as interesting and fun as possible. Sometimes she'll play a (relatively) extended round of tug/fetch, where she grabs the toy and we tug for a while, she lets go and I toss it for her, she runs around with it for a little while, flops down to chew on it, and then brings it back for a repeat. Other times she'll grab a toy on her own and toss it around, catch it, drop it, grab it, lie down and chew on it, etc. And then there are times I can try to make the toy as appealing as I know how and she just ignores me. Normal, or is it a question of better toys or making them more interesting? We've got balls, stuffed squeaky toys, a rope tug, an antler chew, a kong... she does consistently love the stuffed kong, but I don't want to go overboard with it.

[Root Beer]

I don't do much shrieking with my dogs, and I definitely didn't do much shrieking with Bandit. I tend to shriek a bit at the end of an Agility run if it's going well and I get too excited, but that's about it, and no puppy would have experienced that with me.

 

I would say that shrieking doesn't work for me because I don't really mean it, I know I don't really mean it, and my dog - even as a puppy - can tell I don't really mean it.

 

I haven't had much success with this kind of playacting with my dogs, so I've gotten to the point where I don't even bother.

[rushdoggie]

I find that the folks who find shrieking to be ineffective are often also people who do a lot of high-pitched, excited sounds when playing with, greeting and encouraging pups. For them, shrieking doesn't work because it isn't much different from what the pup hears all the time. Especially at playtime. I tend to pitch my voice low when talking to pups because I find that it makes them less squirrely in general. So if a pup puts it's teeth on me I yelp, shriek, squall, whatever you want to call it - but it's a sound of pain. It's very different from what they usually hear from me, and the pups get it.

 

YMMV

 

Could be, but we try it as an option for many puppies and I find it only works about 15% of the time, and I doubt that all of the puppy owners shriek all the time. Hell, some of them don't say much other than "No!" constantly to the puppies.

[rushdoggie]

All good food for thought! Thanks, y'all!

 

On the toy front, she seems to have times she really like them and times she doesn't care much even if I'm wiggling it on the ground, playing with it, and generally trying to make it look as interesting and fun as possible. Sometimes she'll play a (relatively) extended round of tug/fetch, where she grabs the toy and we tug for a while, she lets go and I toss it for her, she runs around with it for a little while, flops down to chew on it, and then brings it back for a repeat. Other times she'll grab a toy on her own and toss it around, catch it, drop it, grab it, lie down and chew on it, etc. And then there are times I can try to make the toy as appealing as I know how and she just ignores me. Normal, or is it a question of better toys or making them more interesting? We've got balls, stuffed squeaky toys, a rope tug, an antler chew, a kong... she does consistently love the stuffed kong, but I don't want to go overboard with it.

 

I'd say normal.

 

To me, its like this. Want to play bitey wrestle puppy games? Cool! Lets do it with this toy. Oh, you refuse the toy and want my skin? Too bad, so sad, here's a time out. Oh, ready to play with the toy? Cool, lets play!

 

I forgot to add I have a lot of fun with a flirt pole (dog toy on string), either a commercially made one or I McGuyver something with a dowel or PVC and duct tape.

[CptJack]

Could be, but we try it as an option for many puppies and I find it only works about 15% of the time, and I doubt that all of the puppy owners shriek all the time. Hell, some of them don't say much other than "No!" constantly to the puppies.

 

Yeah. I've had it work with the occasional puppy but mostly it just seems to ramp them up - and I am ANYTHING but an effusive, loud, person who screams/shrieks in play. In fact, I was sort of attributing the puppies getting excited by how WEIRD (read: unusua) it was for me to be loud and dramatic. Like it was mostly exciting *because* I'm primarily a low key, quiet, person.

[GentleLake]

I find that the folks who find shrieking to be ineffective are often also people who do a lot of high-pitched, excited sounds when playing with, greeting and encouraging pups.

 

Could be. I'm not much of a high pitched voice person. Wen I'm encouraging a puppy to come or to divert it's attentions, I may use a higher register "puppy, puppy, puppy!". But rarely otherwise, even when praising.

 

OTOH, I'm a pretty reactive person, so when I shriek, "OW!" or "OUCH!" when a puppy or untrained bites too hard, it's genuine, not faked, and it sounds very different from my "puppy, puppy, puppy!" voice. ((Heck, I've been getting allergy shots for 5+ years, and when an unskillful nurse jabs me I still jump, even though it's not that bad and I know it's coming. LOL)

 

Maybe that's why it works for some people and not for others.