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Hi i recently met a new friend with a border collie . This dog is from a shelter so it has been all treated . She is 3 years old now . After reading about this kind of dog , i believe this dog fits into the medium hyper range .

 

Problem is this dog has never been trained . One thing she does very well is come back to its owner when called . One thing i need to bring up is the fact my friend uses this dog as a friend and cuddly toy , treats it like a little kid and babies it like its a poodle or something .

 

The problems i see are she jumps on people and during walks constantly pulls froward on the leash . In the evening around the same time this dog will not leave me or her aloan and keeps trying to climb up onto us with constant licking . we have to force push her away for a good 15 minutes before she will quit . Otherwise she is a pretty good dog .

 

I have contacted local training but the owner will not respond to my findings . Is there any online help or suggestions from those here that i can apply to try to help fix these problems myself ?

I have tried to shorten the leash and tug back when she pulls forward but this only results in the dog constantly jumping up at me . Do i use a choke collar or an ultrasonic device or ??

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Dear Mr/Ms,

 

I'd recommend Carol Benjamin's training book Mother Knows Best which you'll probably find in your local library. If not, Border Collies are unusually trainable and (almost) any training guide consistently applied will make a better, happier pet and happier owner.

 

Don't think that one gadget or another can train a dog. Neither treats nor choke collars nor snout loops nor ecollars (shock collars) can train a dog and shock collars are far too powerful for a novice trainer. You need to work from a good book or (better) work with an experienced trainer. If you can't persuade your friend to go to a local trainer, why not take the dog yourself? It's really interesting and a lot of fun.

 

Donald McCaig

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Constant licking can be a sign of appeasement and/or anxiety. Sounds like æ needy dog, but bear in mind any views on here will be from people who have never seen the dog and only have what you say to go on.

 

Pushing the dog away is giving it what it wants - attention. That's why it doesn't work.

 

What has the owner done to let the dog know why is acceptable behaviour that will be rewarded? Sounds like nothing.

 

No fuss until all four feet are on the floor. Jumping up results in turning your back on the dog and ignoring it.

 

Nothing you do will work though if the owner or anyone else doesn't do the same. Definitely a trainer is needed to train the owner. The dog will be easy in comparison.

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So let me ask you to clarify a few things:

1. This is a new relationship you are in with this dog's owner, right?

2. The owner doesn't seem concerned about the behaviors you find concerning, right?

3. The owner doesn't appear to be amenable to taking training suggestions from you?

 

If the above statements are correct, can you see the potential pitfalls here? If the dog is already a source of conflict between you, it doesn't bode well for the relationship. Unless the owner has actually expressed an interest in YOU training his/her dog, they might be offended (at best) by your attempts to do so. And if they are treating the dog as a cuddly fur baby and you suggest using a choke collar for training (which is a very bad idea, by the way, especially since you could damage the dog's trachea by using it improperly), what sort of response do you think you'll get to that suggestion?

 

You could try a no pull harness for walks and a crate in the house (maybe with something to entertain the dog, like something good to chew) for times when you want the dog to chill, but remember that unless the owner is on board with the training, all you'll be doing is confusing the poor dog if you're correcting for behaviors the owner allows (there are things you can do to train the dog, but as I've said the owner has to be willing so the suggestions here are really more about management than training). Your first mission, before "fixing" the dog is to get the owner to agree to (and not just agree to but also to be a willing participant in) some sort of training program. If the owner refuses, then I think the graceful thing for you to is accept the owner's wishes about his/her dog. You have to decide if the dog is something that the relationship will live or die over.

 

Just my opinion of course.

 

J.

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I recommend that you mind yourself and your own pets if your help has not been requested by the dog's owner. If he/she wishes to treat their dog as a "friend and cuddly toy" that is your friend's choice.

 

As a side note, you can't do 30 minutes of research after knowing the dog for a short while and just assume that you know the dog's needs.

 

Look at the resources provided by the above posters if you insist on getting involved with training and the owner is receptive. If you have no experience with dog training, seek out another dog trainer who will respond to your questions (although if you noted that the dog was not yours in your query to the first trainer, I am not surprised that he/she did not respond and I wouldn't expect anyone else to either).

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I agree with both Mum24dog and Juliepoudrier.

 

It sounds like the dog is very insecure and needy (from what you describe -- can't be certain from the brief description), in which case any harsh corrections are going to be harmful rather than helpful. I'd guess what the dog really needs is some basic training that includes being taught acceptable alternative behaviors to the ones that aren't acceptable. . . to you. Therein lies the problem, because if the owner finds those behaviors acceptable and is unwilling to do anything about them and train the dog, then there's not a whole lot you can do about it other than ignoring the dog yourself, which might eventually persuade the dog to leave you alone because it's not getting what it wants from you, which is your attention.

 

Best wishes as you try to negotiate this relationship for the best outcome.

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The owner of the dog does recognize all of the problems . She is willing to let me do whatever i can to help . This is why i am here on this forum . I have not used any devices or choke collars because i dont want to make things worse and i know nothing about training this dog . I have read hours of info on the net about these dogs though . I called a local dog trainer and offered the owner the info and half of the cost of training . She listened and is interested but has not done anything yet . I already know i cannot train the dog if she wont participate too and i have told her that .

 

About the dogs bad habits and me . If i am sitting on a couch and the dog puts its paws on the couch in front of me and starts licking how am i supposed to ignore that ? if i look away and pull my hands away from it , it just climbs up more till it can reach my face . If i turn my face away it will lick the back of my neck or ear . The only way out of it is to push it away either with my hand or foot .

When i am standing and it jumps on me i will turn around and ignore it but the minute i turn back around its back on me again . If i stay turned around longer it will lick my hands and follow me as i turn . About the only way to stop it is to push it away or bring a knee up as it jumps .

 

I feel this may be impossible . thanks for all the help .

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I don't mean to offend you, but I get the impression that English is a second language for you. I think that this is making it hard for people to understand what exactly you are trying to achieve by asking questions here.

 

Have you told your friend why you are unhappy with the dog's behavior? Does she share your concerns?

 

If I were in your situation, I would talk with her and explain that you are very bothered by the dog climbing on you and licking you. If she does not want to seek a solution by getting training for the dog, then I suggest that maybe what you need is not a dog trainer, but a new girlfriend.

 

The dog is hers. If she wants it trained she will probably make that happen. If not, then there is nothing you can or should do. Sorry.

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About the dogs bad habits and me . If i am sitting on a couch and the dog puts its paws on the couch in front of me and starts licking how am i supposed to ignore that ? if i look away and pull my hands away from it , it just climbs up more till it can reach my face . If i turn my face away it will lick the back of my neck or ear . The only way out of it is to push it away either with my hand or foot .

First, to train this dog will not be impossible. It sounds that she is not only desperate for attention, but that she has learned how to get what she wants - which is not necessarily a bad thing. It is what dogs do. Part and parcel of the canine package.

 

If she is your first dog, you should be prepared to learn about dog behavior to help her. Also, be consistent and be patient. Some behaviors may be learned in a few days, but some may take months. Consistency is key.

 

For the above situation, I agree with a previous poster that by pushing the dog away (either by hand or foot), she is getting the attention she craves. I would ask for a behavior that is incompatible with the behavior you don't want. If you ask for a sit (and reward her with a little treat!!!!!), she can not jump on you.

 

It would go a little like this: First, have a bunch of treats with you - either in a bowl or plastic bag. The treats could be bits of kibble or cheese or hot dogs - cut into the size of a pencil eraser. If you see the dog coming towards you, be ready with a treat. Hold it in front of her nose and raise it up so (hopefully) her butt goes down on the ground. The instant her butt touches the ground, give her the treat. In fact, in the beginning you could keep feeding her 4 or 5 individual treats, one right after the other. [This is called a jackpot.] You are trying to get the dog to think that sitting her butt on the ground is the best thing ever because she is getting food.

 

There is a possibility that she may still climb on you to get a treat once she knows you have them. I would then stand up (without saying anything) and try to get her to sit. If she sits, instant treat.

 

It is a little hard to explain the subtleties on-line which is why having someone help you one-on-one can be very invaluable. You may also want to scour the internet for training videos (Youtube, vimeo, etc.)

 

This can be exhausting in the beginning so you can also put her in a crate (or a bathroom) for a short time-out when you need a break. This may also help her to reset her attitude.

 

Good Luck. Remember -- Patience and Consistency

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^^Good advice from Jovi. Training incompatible behaviors is always a good choice. Once she is further along in her training if she tries to climb in your lap, you can simply tell her sit (or lie down, or go to your crate, or whatever) and she will comply. But it will take both of you doing the training and being consistent.

 

She's not going to be impossible to train. But you have to be consistent and clear in your expectations. You also have to realize that it won't happen overnight and that there are no magic bullets to make it happen. Training a dog is work. But it's well worth it to have a companion you can enjoy. And the very act of training (especially trick training and similar) gives them a mental workout (just as important, if not more so, than a physical workout) and helps them to develop a partnership with you.

 

The main thing to remember about border collies is that they are smart, and they can learn bad habits as easily as good habits. As a shelter dog without a known history, there's no way to know what triggers the behaviors you don't like. She just may be a needy dog, and while you may train her not to climb in your lap, please recognize that this is a breed that was created to work closely in partnership with their human (the shepherd) and so they crave that interaction. That's their nature. They are not an aloof breed; they want to be with and do things with their people. That's part of their appeal for people who do dog sports and those of us who use them for livestock work--the great desire to do for the human, with the human.

 

So you might find that even just giving her some sort of "job" that allows her to work with you and your girlfriend can make a big difference.

 

Good luck, and please be patient with her. Once she learns your expectations, she will probably be a delight to live with.

 

By the way, the solution Jovi suggested for the climbing on you thing can also work on pulling. You can use treats to encourage her to stay closer to you, and you can use sit or lie down to get her to refocus on you and not on pulling. I don't train that sort of thing that way, but there are a lot of people here who do, and maybe they will offer advice.

 

J.

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I had a dog that pulled- one thing I found was that the more I shortened the leash the more she pulled.She gets walked occasionally by a friend who shortens the leash, and she goes back to the habit of pulling then. If she has a bit of a longer leash it's easier to teach her what 'slack' feels like and that that is what you want her to do.

 

I noticed she tended to heel well off-leash and rewarded her for that. Then I walked her on a longer leash and made a very clear 'no' when she hit the end of the leash and pulled, and praised and rewarded her (quietly and calmly so she didn't get excited) when she did the right thing. I also (this wasn't intentional) dropped a book beside her one day when she pulled my hand suddenly, and spilled water on her when I was holding an open bottle in that hand. This is a very clever dog who is anxious for play and attention, so it worked well, but it took a fair while of being patient and consistent.

 

You had to pay total attention while she was on-lead, and every time you pulled, it would confuse her again as to what you wanted. You had to work hard to make sure you didn't pull her accidentally, that the leash only got taut when she did something- not you. And it can be difficult to make it clear and consistent enough.

 

 

It's only one experience with one dog, your dog may be different etc, but it's just what I thought of when I heard you shortened the leash.

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A Gentle Leader (link) works wonders with pulling! We use one on Callie in situations where she gets too excited to listen while we're still working on consistency in our training. It works because when the dog pulls, she gets spun around to face you since it's clipped in the front instead of being able to keep going.

 

It really needs to fit well to work though, otherwise she'll just keep dragging you around with the harness over her shoulder.

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Prevent what you don't want, reward what you do want.

 

For keeping 4 feet on the floor (and/or sit) to greet a person, owner could use a front loop harness and stand on the leash. Leave just enough room so that the dog can sit/stand comfortably, bounce a little, but not jump or climb up. Answer to door, and ignore while standing calmly on the leash. But reward the dog for any calm, standing/sitting with attention, petting, treats...

 

Sitting on the couch owner can also keep her foot on the leash, preventing any jumping climbing up. Reward any moment of calm, appropriate behavior. Teach sit to be petted, and also lie down at my feet.

 

(If the owner is teaching the dog to do otherwise with her, this inconsistency will be a problem. I teach my dogs to come up and cuddle on the couch, but only when I invite them--otherwise, the rule is stay off-- best of both worlds :-) ! They sit to request things too.

 

Front loop harness will also help reduce/prevent pulling. Treat, praise, and/or move forward whenever the dog lessens the tension on leash and/or walks nicely by your side. (gentle leaders are o.k. for some dogs, others find them aversive.) AS others have said: small steps, short sessions.

 

Prevention of undesirable behavior can help teach a dog what you *do* want and avoid accidentally reinforcing "bad" habits. Later you can ease off the leash/harness and go to just marking and rewarding the "good" behavior.

 

A reward is anything your dog loves- it might be attention, petting, treats, a toy/game. Play with the dog and find out. Go to a positive training class so you and the owner are on same page. Date-night-with-dog :-)

 

When a dog is needy, sometimes just a few minutes of interactive play will help reassure and calm. I train a signal to relax and "take a break." My dogs know that "take a break" means: activity (ball, tug etc.) is over for a while, here's a treat, chill out. I expect shill-out times to be short at first.

 

You've gotten many good tips from others here, but the owner is the trainer. Good luck with the dog and relationship!

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Thanks again all of you who have taken the time to help here . I have been using the skills shown here one at a time on this dog myself . When i am aloan with the dog i have seen some pretty surprising results . When she jumps i turn away . and she stops and walks away . I have gotten her to sit several times by simply saying ''sit'' then pet her and test the sit for length .

Also i believe possibly some of this bad behavior was me coming into the picture and disturbing the dogs normal routine . I have noticed she has calmed down a bit as she gets used to me being there once a week .

This dog still is a bit out of control for its owner because she does not try to train it . I need to work on the pulling issue next .

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No the owner does not expect me to train her dog . She is open about letting me try things myself . Maybe after she sees that its working , she will follow . Its up to her . If i can get the dog to obey me , i see no harm and it will make it nicer for me . I heard these are very smart .

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