CptJack Posted October 14, 2015 Report Share Posted October 14, 2015 Sorry, but in the case of a dog - any kind of dog - that has a history of two attacks, animal or human, an ounce of prevention equals an ounce of euthanol. There are way too many dogs with no such history dying in shelters every day. And I don't think anyone has said otherwise. Just that turning this into a 'pit' issue is unfair and inappropriate. and that maybe saying it's the foster home's fault isn't a good time either, since the slip lead was unwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvw Posted October 14, 2015 Report Share Posted October 14, 2015 I in now way got the sense that anyone is turning this into a "pit" issue. It is a multiple bite issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisandgabe Posted October 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2015 I hate that it was a pit bull, because I don't dislike pit bulls and I think they have an unfairly bad reputation, and I don't like feeding into the "pit bulls are bad" rhetoric. This dog didn't do this because it was a pit bull, it did this because it's a dog aggressive dog. That being said, I'm not sure that a dog-aggressive border collie or any other non-terrier would have clamped down and not let go quite like this dog did, not because of pit bull's locking jaws or anything like that, but the tenacity of this dog to NOT LET GO was both incredible and terrifying. And in terms of delays about keeping the dog in rescue and rehabilitating, etc., the sad fact here is that the dog isn't with a "rescue" per say, but with the "Lifesaving" branch of the Philadelphia city Public (kill) shelter. The dog's already been on the euth list (saw some Urgent postings on Facebook for a few months ago) for space reasons. In the number of places I've found this dog listed, only one place indicates she has some dog-aggression issues. And it's worded like "Due to some behaviors we've seen on walks, this dog should go to a foster or forever home without other dogs", and I feel like they could have included "and an experienced dog owner to work on these issues with her". Given that the dog is in a foster home that can't take another dog while they work with her, and other dogs with that organization are dying for space, I think it's a hard justification to be taking a lot of time to find another foster, etc. for this dog. I don't know how competent or not the fosters are, however I am a little disturbed that I don't think they reported this to the shelter, and tried to make it seem like they did. I think it would be irresponsible of them to try and hide this from the shelter, and that to me has been the most concerning part of their actions. They told me they got in touch with the shelter, the shelter said they wouldn't cover vet bills, so the foster asked if she could try and raise some funds via GoFundMe before reimbursing me for vet bills. I was willing to work with her, but when I contacted the shelter directly, they said they would absolutely be covering. I even mentioned to them that she said they wouldn't cover, and I wasn't sure that she had reported this at all, and they've kind of glossed over that a few times. It's just an all around crappy situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentleLake Posted October 14, 2015 Report Share Posted October 14, 2015 It's just an all around crappy situation. No disagreement there. And I agree that the dog should probably be put down for all the various reasons already mentioned. Even though in the dog's in the shelter's system, there are probably still procedures they have to adhere to while making a decision on her fate. Whatever happens, the thing I hope most is for a speedy recovery for Gabe, both physically and emotionally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geonni banner Posted October 14, 2015 Report Share Posted October 14, 2015 I don't think this is a pit bull issue either. Pit bulls can often get an unfair rap. But so can Border Collies (they're all crazy, hyper, whatever...) I have met a great many pits with good people and animals skills. This dog is clearly not one of them. Could he be? Maybe so, but at what cost? So far costs have included an attacked cat, an attacked dog, and a horrible, frightening experience for a neighbor. What does it have to be next? A disfigured toddler that happened to be between this dog and it's next canine target? As for the foster being negligent: yes, I believe they were. For the simple reason that the dog should have been returned to the shelter with a full report immediately. By the way, pit bulls don't have "locking jaws." That is a myth. They do have extremely strong muscular jaws, and they tend to be reluctant to let go, once they have secured a good bite. But their jaw structure is the same as any other dog's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nancy Posted October 14, 2015 Report Share Posted October 14, 2015 I wonder if Villa Lobos (http://www.vrcpitbull.net/dog/) would be able to handle this dog? They seem to do well with all types of pit bulls. I sponsor a dog there as a gift to my great-grandson. I give to a charity for each of my grandkids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvw Posted October 14, 2015 Report Share Posted October 14, 2015 I wonder if Villa Lobos (http://www.vrcpitbull.net/dog/) would be able to handle this dog? They seem to do well with all types of pit bulls. I sponsor a dog there as a gift to my great-grandson. I give to a charity for each of my grandkids. Sorry, but I don't think a shelter like Villa Lobos filled with cages upon cages of dogs is a good place for a dog aggressive dog. Like others have said also, there are just too many dogs out there with no issues that need help. I think it is misplaced to continue to use resources on dogs that bite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvw Posted October 14, 2015 Report Share Posted October 14, 2015 Also, Villa Lobos does not save every dog they rescue. They have and will have aggressive dogs euthanized. They don't show you that part on the TV show Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Coyote Posted October 14, 2015 Report Share Posted October 14, 2015 I feel sorry for the foster home. Boy, that would be tough. Taking care of a dog you are trying to save and having it do something like that. That would be a heartbreaker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisandgabe Posted October 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2015 By the way, pit bulls don't have "locking jaws." That is a myth. They do have extremely strong muscular jaws, and they tend to be reluctant to let go, once they have secured a good bite. But their jaw structure is the same as any other dog's. I don't think they do, I just didn't want saying "the dog latched on and wouldn't let go" to go there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz P Posted October 14, 2015 Report Share Posted October 14, 2015 Having pried pit bull types off my dogs multiple times, I can say with certainty that bad rap or not, I would rather have another breed/type attack. They don't have locking jaws, but when they bite hard they commit and they won't let go. As others said, most breeds bite and let go or don't commit to the bite the same way a bully breed dog does. I am not in any way supporting a breed ban, just saying that when a PB goes bad, it's scary. I don't walk my dogs in public anymore because I am tired of them being attacked. The exception I make is riding with a dog along the bike trail, which has a strictly enforced leash rule. I am also prepared to defend my dogs. I don't care anymore about pleasing total strangers. Your dog gets too close and is giving the wrong signals, I will be rude if needed to defend mine. Right now I have a bad cold (fever and aches) so I don't have the energy to write a full reply about my journey with Sage. Some of his story can be found in past posts of mine. Needless to say, it took many years of medications and careful counter conditioning to rehab him. Even so, he will never be a normal dog. It is because of Sage that I no longer have any tolerance for aggressive dogs. It's just not worth the public safety risk to try to save them all. It's also not worth being nice to strangers when they are doing something stupid like trying to let their rude dog near my fearful dog. I don't care if I insult them. The relationship with my dog is more important than making a stranger happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geonni banner Posted October 14, 2015 Report Share Posted October 14, 2015 Having pried pit bull types off my dogs multiple times, I can say with certainty that bad rap or not, I would rather have another breed/type attack. They don't have locking jaws, but when they bite hard they commit and they won't let go. As others said, most breeds bite and let go or don't commit to the bite the same way a bully breed dog does. I am not in any way supporting a breed ban, just saying that when a PB goes bad, it's scary... 'snip' It is because of Sage that I no longer have any tolerance for aggressive dogs. It's just not worth the public safety risk to try to save them all. It's also not worth being nice to strangers when they are doing something stupid like trying to let their rude dog near my fearful dog. I don't care if I insult them. The relationship with my dog is more important than making a stranger happy. Agreed. I make it clear to any and all people whose dogs, regardless of breed, type or size, are a threat to me and my dogs, that I will not only insult them, I will physically defend my dogs, and do whatever is necessary to dissuade/disable theirs. I'm not giving up the right to walk down the street with my dogs because someone else can't/won't control theirs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisandgabe Posted October 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2015 Just got the call that they're euthanizing the dog on Friday. Crappy situation all around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Coyote Posted October 14, 2015 Report Share Posted October 14, 2015 Boy, what an awful thing for everybody. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvw Posted October 14, 2015 Report Share Posted October 14, 2015 Just got the call that they're euthanizing the dog on Friday. Crappy situation all around. I totally understand the feeling. When I got bit by the neighbors' dog this summer I totally cried when they put him down. It had to be done, the dog just could not be trusted. But still it was very sad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentleLake Posted October 14, 2015 Report Share Posted October 14, 2015 It's probably the best thing for so many reasons, but it also makes me sad. I blame breeders of this type of dog for the heartache they inflict on everyone. How's Gabe doing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geonni banner Posted October 14, 2015 Report Share Posted October 14, 2015 Here's hoping that Gabe makes a full and speedy recovery, that you also recover from the shock of the incident, and that the neighbors weigh more carefully what sort of fosters they take into their homes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbc1963 Posted October 14, 2015 Report Share Posted October 14, 2015 That is a very sad ending, but probably necessary. I looked at a "shy and fearful" dog this past summer. The rescue said they didn't understand why he'd been returned several times by adoptees. I drove a long way to meet him, and was let into a pasture with him. He charged at me and put teeth on me - not bites, technically, but head butts accompanied by nipping. Two young girls who were working for the rescue witnessed it, and were horrified. The next business day, the dog disappeared from the rescue's website. I assume they decided they couldn't risk adopting him out. I never contacted them to ask what happened to him - fearful of what I'd learn. It's sad when your life is touched by incidents like this - not your fault, but still something you had to be part of. ::Sigh:: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Coyote Posted October 14, 2015 Report Share Posted October 14, 2015 It's sad for everyone. I know I would have strong feelings if a dog attacked and really hurt one of my dogs. I'm looking at this from far away and it just seems so sad for the foster family. For both dogs and really bad for the dog that got attacked. It's just horrible all around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geonni banner Posted October 14, 2015 Report Share Posted October 14, 2015 This thread has put me in mind of a book and a film. The book is :Bandit: Dossier of a Dangerous Dog, by Vicki Hearn and the movie is White Dog. Bandit reflects a lot of Vicki's one-of-a-kind take on the world, and White Dog, though dated and melodramatic, has food for thought as well. It was misrepresented as a racist film when it was shown in this country, although nothing could be further from the truth. I wrote about it and posted an article from the Criterion Collection website here: http://atpeacewithpink.blogspot.com/2015/10/white-dog.html White dog is available from Netflix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisandgabe Posted October 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 It's sad for everyone. I know I would have strong feelings if a dog attacked and really hurt one of my dogs. I'm looking at this from far away and it just seems so sad for the foster family. For both dogs and really bad for the dog that got attacked. It's just horrible all around. I feel so sad for the foster family. I can't even imagine going through the emotional process of saving the dog, living with it, and hoping for a great outcome and then this. They were trying to do a good thing for the dog, and they seemed really attached to the dog, and I really don't fault them for what happened. Dogs get out of leashes, things happen, this just had a really bad outcome, and that dog that they love is going to die for it. It's just awful. The better part of this is the Gabe update! He's been moving around the apartment really well, bearing weight on the injured leg for the most part, and has been in fairly good spirits. He's had visits from many of his favorite people, and we've been able to swing our schedules in such a way to be home with him so that's been good. He's getting to a point where he feels good enough to be bored and upset that we aren't doing our usually 4+ miles of hiking/day, but he's getting some good Kongs and other stuff to keep him busy inside. I took him around the block this afternoon, and he was SO HAPPY to be outside. We didn't see any other dogs, so hard to gauge if he's going to be more scared and reactive or about the same. He's been eating, drinking, and pottying with no issues. His wounds are looking okay, he's tolerating meds pretty well, and all that is going okay. I've been blown away by how resilient he is. He's still really swollen, so I'm mandating more rest even though he keeps trying to tell me he's feeling better and wants to MOVE. And now he's telling us in no uncertain terms that it is time for bed. It's only been a few months with him, but I really love this little guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentleLake Posted October 15, 2015 Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 So happy to hear he's doing well. Fingers crossed that it'll stay that way and it ends up being an uneventful recovery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Coyote Posted October 15, 2015 Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 That's great. He probably will be just fine. I have a friend who's little dog got hit by a car and his leg was severely dsmaged but not broken. I was just amazed at how it healed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildFlower Posted October 15, 2015 Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 I'm glad to hear that Gabe is recovering well! Fingers crossed that he keeps improving. I am sorry to hear that this happened to you and to Gabe. I am sorry for the foster dog and her foster family. As a side note, personally I can tell you that making a decision to euthanize a rescue/foster dog is not an easy one to make - in some cases the facts are pretty clear and in that respect it is easy but emotionally it is hard to swallow regardless.... It sounds like in this case it is the right choice to make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gcv-border Posted October 15, 2015 Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 I am glad to hear the positive update. Best wishes for continued progress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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