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The closest to what I would label as an intertaction happened when I was horseback riding. I was on a dirt road about a mile from our house, and a coyote walked out of a gully and onto the road. I only had Sadie (7 year old lab mix) with me at the time, and she just wanted to go see it, though was, understandably, cautious. It didn't like that and chased her about ten feet then left her alone. It just walked in the middle of the road, 10 feet in front of me, for about 1/4 a mile. It acted like it never saw me at all though I did yell at it a couple of times. Then it went into the field and began hunting while I continued on my ride.


We have tons of coyotes around here, and do our best to eradicate them. We shoot every one we legally can. My estimate is, my brothers get, on the average, 3 a week between the three of them. Last winter they got 53 altogether in about three months. In the summer, they just kill them and in the winter, they sell the hides.


There are several large cattle ranchers that lose newborn calves to them every year, and they hate them. (Though in truth they lose more livestock to cougars that we aren't allowed to shoot. Lots of people use the SSS method.) Sheep farmers, the same. Goats, chickens, etc. One of my brothers lost a chicken last week to a coyote. The coyote came back Saturday night for more. He (the brother) had just pulled into his yard and was talking on the phone. It was dark, and in the headlights, he saw some eyes. He figured it was a coyote but didn't do anything. Little bit later, it came closer and he could clearly see that it was one. It went around the corner of the house and he bailed out and went in the house. He grabbed his rifle and went out the back door, and shot the thing 30 feet from the house.


A couple of years ago, one of my brothers stepped out of his house to see the neighbor's dog, in his yard, being killed by six! coyotes. He shot at them, missed, and though it scared them off, it was too late for the poor dog.


I do think coyotes are very pretty, especially in the winter. I love watching and listening to them and don't shoot them myself. However, my animals are more important than wild animals and personally, I wouldn't care if they went extinct. I've got dogs, goats, chickens, cats and cows that I need to protect. And yes, coyotes have taken some of my animals as well.

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I saw a coyote once in the fenced backyard of the suburban house we used to own. It had something in its mouth (bunny? squirrel? cat??) and was trotting across our back yard and then turned and disappeared in the woods in the rear of our yard. At first I thought it was a small German shepherd, it was so large and healthy looking, but then I did a double-take and said to myself "that's one BIG coyote!!!". (Having grown up in Southern California, I was more used to the small, mangy version). I called the state department of natural resources and described what I'd seen. They confirmed it was almost certainly a coyote - said our neighborhood (with the three acres of County-owned woods behind our house) sounded like perfect habitat. And that domesticated dogs were rarely successful in hunting. The best sign, they said, that a coyote had moved into your neighborhood is to look for signs of "lost cat". I warned all the neighbors I saw that night while out walking my dog.


I subsequently saw a dead one on the side of the road even closer in to town (but adjacent to a ~ 450-acre park/wilderness area owned by the city of Baltimore). I've also spotted bobcat prints in that park. Wild animals are everywhere amongst us, even if we don't always see them.


I'm certain we have coyotes where we live now (on a 15-acre farm close to the PA line, with a couple of acres of woods and conservation land all around us). I haven't seen them or heard them, but my neighbor told me he'd killed one. I explained why it was best not to kill them unless one was known to kill livestock.


I opted to try for good fencing and sturdy night pens (each with 2 x 4" high tensile woven wire, with hotwire top and bottom) for my sheep (and chickens) over a livestock guardian animal (llama, donkey, or dog). I'm crossing my fingers and hoping this works. Llamas aren't always effective (bears have been sighted in my county); donkeys will sometimes kill lambs; and both need to be caught if you're going to try to train dogs in their presence. Dogs *can* be useful in protecting poultry as well as sheep, but it's hard to find a well-trained one, and not all will respect fences. Most LGDs bark at night, and my husband would object. But I'll revisit the option of an LGD if I start to lose lambs.


For those interested in "coywolves" (yep, Eastern coyotes are bigger because they've been interbreeding with Canadian wolves), Nature ran a fascinating program on them last year.

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If a coyote threatened/attacked my child, pet, or livestock, I would defend and would really try to make it as costly as possible for that particular coyote. If I had them brazenly coming up close to the house or chicken coop, I would NOT give them a warm welcome- again, I'd make it as difficult and unpleasant as I could to discourage that.


But, I'd also want to analyze why- especially if I had repeated and ongoing problems, and I'd want to work WITH wildlife biologists to find solutions, not against them (as in the SSS approach). I don't have a farm/ranch (yet :D that is)… so I haven't had to face personal livestock losses, or needed to outsmart a hungry, intelligent animal (except raccoons). Nor have I ever lost a pet to a wildlife encounter (knock on wood). (I actually know of more people who have lost pets to poisons intended for rodents or coyotes.) Bears become nuisances too and are killed for it, but often there is a human contribution to creating that "problem" bear, such as inadvertent or even intentional feeding.


My hat really goes off to those ranchers who are working in grizzly and/or wolf country. There are many ranchers out there who are doing admirable, "predator-friendly" work in states like MI, CO, OR and MT etc… Some even feel it's a selling point for their products as in this organization's link, which has some good information and examples:



FYI- I thought WA state's "living with wildlife" page had some good info- including when limited lethal methods might be appropriate. I'm sure other states have similar resources, but here's their page on coyote solutions:


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Pretty expensive sacrifice!

Well, yes and no. If the llama does get into an encounter with a predator, it is highly possible that the sheep or goats may remain unharmed. So one must compare the value of one llama vs. the value of multiple sheep. Of course, this is all supposition since one can never predict the result of an encounter - will one sheep be killed or several??


Llamas are generally not any more expensive than a donkey (at least in my area) and may be quite a bit cheaper than a LGD. It is also not hard to find people giving away llamas if one wants to see how they do with your livestock. [if you want to buy a show-quality llama, the price will be higher, but probably not much more than if one was to buy a top quality show dog.]


Generally, llamas discourage most predators just based on their size. Some can be more than 6 feet tall. Not all llamas are 'guardy', but they may not need to be if their mere presence is enough to discourage. The 'guardy' ones will actively approach a predator to chase it away, and that is when there may be a problem/fight.


There are so many differing viewpoints when deciding which type of guard animal one will use. Alchemist described a few options above.


I also have 2X4 5' no-climb fence because, like Alchemist, I have chosen to put up discouraging fencing rather than add another type of animal to the mix. And I, too, will revisit that decision if there were problems.


About 8 years ago, we had a teenager coyote crawl under our fence. There was a den at the edge of the woods about 150 feet away. It could not find its way back out. I felt sort of sorry for it because its predicament made it an easy target for my husband to dispatch it, but I also didn't want any coyotes in the fields.

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Llamas are generally not any more expensive than a donkey (at least in my area) and may be quite a bit cheaper than a LGD. It is also not hard to find people giving away llamas if one wants to see how they do with your livestock. [if you want to buy a show-quality llama, the price will be higher, but probably not much more than if one was to buy a top quality show dog.]


I have no idea how much a donkey is, and honestly I haven't looked into llamas for years. But back when I did -- in the mid- to late '80s -- they were expensive! It was just after they'd stopped being imported and the least you could get a male for was $6,000-$7,000. Females were considerably more. And these weren't show quality animals, which went well into 5 digits.


I guess maybe they're not as expensive as they used to be. ;)

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We have coyotes; mostly they stay away from the houses. Occassionally a young coyote strays into the sub-divisions. Fortunately there are plenty of rabbits and cotton rats along the railway line and canal, so our local coyotes don't bother us much.


Only a bit further North, the coyotes aren't quite so nice: http://www.bordercollie.org/boards/index.php?showtopic=35890

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A couple of weeks ago I worked dogs in the morning before it got too hot. I had shed off a small group to work and, in that kind of weather, the sheep were mostly scattered to hide in the shade, so I did not see all the sheep. There were two lovely black fine wool lambs that were born about a month late, so they stood out. There were also a few Shetland cross lambs that were born late and smaller, so also stood out. I finished working the dogs and headed towards the house. I found a partially eaten lamb, one of the Shetland crosses, near the pond. I thought it might have died because it had been so hot and was maybe stressed by parasites. Those couple of younger lambs had not been dewormed yet. I checked all the remaining ewes and lambs in that field and they looked fine.


I put the dogs up and left for the country fair to see how the 4H kids were doing with their sheep and goats. I met some friends, got lunch, watched the shows. I was only gone about 4 or 5 hours at the most. When I got back I wanted to get in another quick training session with Tweed, so I took him out back again. I sent him to gather the field and he came back with all the ewes, but now I was short one of the black lambs. I walked the field looking for it, thinking maybe my inexperienced 1 year old dog just left a lamb behind. It is a hilly field with plenty of areas that sheep can hide. Nope. I found the body and it was clearly a predator kill.


I used Tweed to move that group of ewes to the front field by the house. Once they were secure I got Juniper and drove to the other side of the property to search for the rest of the sheep. I saw about a third of them hiding in the brush and trees on the far side, so let Juniper out of the car and sent her through the fence to gather them. I can drive down the fence and have a dog in the field driving parallel to the road to push the sheep about halfway back to the house, so I didn't bother getting out of the car at first. Then I realized the sheep were not coming, just running around. I got out of the car and went into the field. It was broad daylight, only about 4 in the afternoon, and Juniper was doing her best to get the sheep down the field. However, coyotes were dashing back and forth through the flock, scattering them and pushing them back towards the brush.


You can imagine the choice words I was screaming at that point and how badly I was wishing I had a weapon. I ran straight at the flock yelling. The coyotes finally darted back into the treeline. I was able to get that group of sheep pushed down the fence to where the road ends. At that point I got out of the car to walk partway and make sure they were driven back to the house. I grabbed Juniper, drove back along the fence and paused at each section of field (they are divided by thick rows of trees and brush) to send her to look for the remaining sheep. She found the cows quickly enough, but it took hours to find each little group of sheep that was hiding in dense forest, gullies and any other place they felt safe.


Mostly it took so long because it was about 100F. No idea what the heat index was that day. I kept stopping to dunk Juniper in water and make sure she got a drink. Sage had just been retired due to heart disease, so I didn't want to ask him to gather the big fields in the heat. Tweed was not experienced enough at that point to drive sheep hundreds of yards on his own. That left Juniper to do the job. She was tired that night, but not once did she slow down or ask to quit.


A little while later we went out to check on the new calves. Those cows were not happy to see a dog coming, and we found out why pretty fast. When they came out into the open field one cow was missing most of her tail, just a bloody section was left, and I think I saw some scars on another. It looks like the coyotes had even been harassing the cattle to try to get to the calves.


It seems that the guard dogs had grown complacent getting fed at the same time every afternoon, and the coyotes learned that. They knew the dogs left the sheep at about 4 pm each day to go up and get food. Now the guard dogs are fed on a variable schedule.

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I have endless coyote problems. I had one local coyote who was no trouble for several years - she'd snatch the odd chicken if if wandered out of the coop, but was otherwise harmless. She was killed by a car. In moved a larger, and much more assertive coyote, who not only cleaned out my entire coop over several weeks (broke the door and the perches getting them out) but also tried to steal my Italian Greyhound. He only got a mouthful of coat (it was winter time, and my little dogs wear clothes, so sue me) and I was not 20 feet away. One my Aussies pile-drived him like a wrestler, knocking him off the IG, and then both Aussies ran him off. He came back two days later and made another attempt (to be clear, my dogs are NEVER outside without me - so I was again about 20 feet away) at the IG, but I think he was faking it to get the dogs after him, because the Aussies and terriers took off after him and he got one of my terriers. I couldn't see what was happening as they were in the scrub and it was dark, but I could hear her screaming and it was the worst sound. He put several large punctures in her throat, but she must have fought back like the devil because while her punctures were not bleeding, her feet and legs were covered in blood, so I can only assume she got him good.


This one also got hit by a car (I work for Animal Control in my town, and I recognized him when the ACO brought in the remains. And I did a little happy dance) about a month later. I've never been happier in my life. I had some of the local hunters out trying to shoot him, and I would have been equally as happy if he met his end that way too.


Whoever the local coyote is now, it steers mainly clear of my property. I almost never find coyote poop anymore, and my chickens have gone unmolested. Although it did eat two of my ducks when they got out of their enclosure a few weeks ago. I am not fenced, and my landlord is not keen on an LGD anyway. But if another aggressive coyote moves in, I won't hesitate to shoot it or have someone shoot it for me. And I'll keep shooting them if i have to.


I have had problems with weasels twice, and both times they were killed by my terriers. doG bless a terrier!


My "good" coyote story is from when I lived downtown many years ago. I lived near Stanley park (it's huge, go ahead and google it) and I was playing fetch with a Kong on a rope with my dog in the park with a juvenile coyote shot out of the shrubbery and stole my Kong. She ran around with it for a few minutes, and then dropped it about 5 feet in front of me. She then took turns fetching with my dog. Briggs was very dog aggressive, but interestingly never seemed offended by the coyote. She joined us for after work fetch for about 3 days in a row, but on the third day starting following us home up the street, so I had to throw a couple of rocks at her. She took off, and we never saw her again. I wish I'd had a digital camera back then!



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I live in wolf/cougar/bear -both blk and grizz country. And we have small fry predators as well. Bobcat, coyote etc etc.


I was taught a saying- They don't go where we are- We don't go where they are-


Llamas get eaten


predators kill livestock, they will also kill your dogs.. People should Respect big predators, they can be dangerous. Worst thing we can do to any predators is teach them NOT to be afraid of people.

( Btw I love wildlife, I have worked with wildlife over 25 years, but I teach balance, I try to see the whole picture.)


When I moved here the first thing we did is find game trails and move the wildlife back by target shooting near them.

(The house has been here 100 years, but empty for last three.) I had cougars living in shed, bull moose on porch, you get the idea.


I use very hot electric netting, have a team of LGDs and a retired sled dog team that know what bears are- And they bark ALOT.


I bring in stock to large corrals at night, near barn and shop, turn on flood lights have radio playing 'insulting to my intelligence' talk shows. My livestock learn to eat and STUFF themselves when they are out on hills because at night they are not fed. This prevents having to feed because they are inside. You realize impractical to do this.


LGDs bark we go check.


I try to keep onery athletic horned bulls and cows. ( Not Fat short legged stupid buggers that run 100 yds then fall over and say, Please eat me.)

Good luck getting through them. I am glad I'm on horseback when moving them. I just saw one the afternoon, hook a road cone that was in his corral and precisely and toss it over the fence.


I have not lost anything because I watch and pay attention, have wise livestock, and good lgds that stay with stock, both sheep and cattle.


However bears ate all my apples during evac and now there is one 2 yr old that seems to think he has a chance at my sheep. Sheep are pretty easy meals for most big predators. I breed sheep that flock tightly, so LGD can keep track of them easy. My sheep know where safety is. They watch.


On my youtube channel markquiaki there is a short video of my LGDs sheep, young stock dog and blk bear. We Walked right by him, he was waiting for a chance when I turned and LGDs saw him he runs. that happened this morning.


I went out and tracked him, (With Blood Sucking Fly Man.) he had a bed where he could watch. By his sign, he is not eating too well, winters coming he thinks maybe a sheep could be an easy meal.




sorry, no easy meal for you young bear.




you don't go where I am, I don't go where you are.

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When I was stronger, I regularly took our previous generation of dogs up into the mountains above town. Up about 11,000 - 12,000 ft. We'd spend entire days up there, and every so often the dogs would get just a bit spooked. We had the occasional black bear and cougar up there. We've even had the bears come down into town once a year or so. Cougars in town are rare. Fortunately, no brown bears (like we had in the Coast Mountains).


Coyotes are plenty common around here. About 10 years back I neglected to close in our hens one night, and in the next morning's first light we saw a coyote bounding over the fence (ironically, 'coyote fence') with a last hen in his/her teeth. Back then, our BCX was the smallest dog, so we didn't worry too much about the dogs and coyotes. Now we've got a BC and a terrier/poodle/? mutt. The wife won't let the little dog out in the yard at night unless the BC goes out with her. Mornings around here you can find a couple coyotes loping down the road, heading back to shelter before lots of folks come out.


What's interesting is this is a town of about 80,000 people, so pretty urban/suburban where we live. But we can hear the coyotes singing at night pretty close by; and meet up with them if we're out at the right time.

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My (now deceased) little 30lb heeler chased after a coyote she saw while we were hiking the local forest trail. She raced out of my sight barking ferociously...way different from her bunny or squirrel bark. I didn't know what she was after until I heard a yelp and seconds later she came running back toward me on 3 legs with the coyote hot on her heels. When It saw me it stopped pursuit and sauntered away. There wasn't too much blood, but her hind leg had been torn from the socket. Talk about narrow escapes. She made a full recovery.


A few years ago I was hiking with Jill on our trail. We came around a bend and not 30 feet in front of us, standing on the trail was a large coyote. She chased it up the hill into the brush and they both disappeared from view. The longest 30 seconds of my life. After shredding my voice calling her in a panic, I blew the wrist whistle I carry on hikes and she came back, apparently none the worse for wear. I checked her over thoroughly and she acted like it was no big deal. My knees were shaking. Later that evening at home, she had a teeth chattering, drooling, quivering episode. And ever since then, she tends maintain a closer proximity to me on hikes.


My sister's chinese crested was nearly taken from right in front of her house in suburban Chicago a few years ago. She had let him out in the (unfenced) front yard for a potty break late one evening. It was dark and she heard him scream but she couldn't see what was happening. The coyote dropped him when she ran toward the sound. Her dog nearly died from several puncture wounds.


We do get the occasional big cat come around in some of the subdivisions from time to time. I live in a neighborhood with wildland interface that backs to the National Forest. A neighbor up the street whose property backs up directly to the National Forest heard a commotion in his yard one evening and turned on the porch light just in time to see a cougar take down a deer. The story made the local paper. I suspended my evening walks with the dogs for some time after that.


Around here, on more than one occasion I've heard folks say they watch as their dogs "play" with coyotes. They think it's cute. I can only shake my head.

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sorry, no easy meal for you young bear.




you don't go where I am, I don't go where you are.

^^^ liked this whole post- both wise AND funny. :-)


Like that horn-to-cone coordination! I imagine with the drought and the fires there are lot of hungry (desperate) critters up there.


I checked out your channel, Tea, -saw that bear skeedaddle, saw really nice dogs :-), and, unbelievably ...I saw that Blood Sucking Fly Man crying over Lady Edith's wedding!!! cracked me up! ( I had a DA addiction for a little while) Star Wars lamb was pretty cute too...


I saw "Hoover Girl" again today. I call her that because her route, is up and down Hoover St. It goes past open space and then through the neighborhoods, and it ends near a ravine. She's a coyote, always on a mission. Doesn't stop to bother with anybody. I've seen her on Hoover going doggedly north or south, always alone, several times/week all summer. Ignores cars, bikes, pets, people. Just trots. Unlike the other sleek and glossy ones, her coat looks mangy. But there she is, week after week, keepin' on... trotting along Hoover St.

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When I lived in Oxford on a 55-acre property that was part of a larger property (~250-acre), much in conservation forest, there was a pack of coyotes I'd hear howling at night, often quite close. A good number of them. I used to walk my dogs all back through those woods, and I trailed my sheep through the woods to various pastures on other parts of the farm (on my section, I had just 5 acres of open land and 50 acres of woods). I did have an LGD (and at one point, two), but of course she stayed with the flock wherever they were, which meant there was plenty of time when the area around my house was unprotected because they were in a pasture a mile away. I had a flock of free range chickens that were enclosed in a coop at night, and I had indoor/outdoor cats (also required to be in the house at night), and despite the fact that that pack of very vocal coyotes was close, sharing my property, I never saw one (except one hit by a car on the side of the road) and never had any of my animals bothered by them (and I didn't have great fences then either).


Maybe the difference is that my landlord managed his property mainly for conservation, so small game was also abundant and so they had no need to bother my critters.


There were several folks within a 3 mile radius of my house who raised sheep and none of them ever had issues with coyote attacks, and I was the only one who kept guard dogs.


Where I am now, the area surrounding the farm is more urban. I run my sheep without a guard dog, but the fences are good (no climb, 2 x 4 woven wire with a strand of barbed wire top and bottom). I've never heard a coyote here (sadly, because I find the sound of them quite haunting and beautiful), but I really don't think I'll have a problem.


For everyone I know who has lost sheep to "predators," the predator has been a family dog(s), and in at least one case the dogs were allowed to roam again and killed again (goats the second time).


I applaud those folks who try to work with the predators' natural instincts and use guard animals to protect their livestock. The folks who advocate wiping predators off the map are the same ones who will be crying when they are overrun with pesky prey species and will then need to advocate killing all of them. A vicious circle.


I've always had free range chickens and I used to raise OEG bantams. The greatest loss to predation I had was from hawks, usually young hawks learning to hunt for themselves. I had a housemate once who advocated shooting the hawks, which is of course illegal, not that laws stop folks in the country from doing what they want. My answer to him was simple: By free ranging my chickens I was knowingly putting them at risk. I couldn't then blame the predator for doing what comes naturally. If I wanted to never have any losses, I needed to keep my chickens up. Since I didn't want to do that, then I needed to accept that I was going to occasionally lose one to a hawk or other predator.


If I start having predator issues where I am now, I will get another guard dog. They do work, and work well. I had a donkey that I raised with the sheep, but once she matured she harassed the sheep and of course had to be caught before I could send a dog for the sheep (even though she had been worked with the flock since the time I got her as a foal), which was problematic on the large pastures that were on other parts of the property.


I've never seen a cougar, but since I lived near the Dismal Swamp for a period of time, I often saw bears, though not up close and personal. When I lived in northeastern NC I was walking my dogs around a farm field when a bobcat jumped out of the woods in front of us and took off through the soybean field with Willow in hot pursuit. The soybeans were tall enough that I couldn't see the cat or my dog, but I did manage to call her back. The funny thing about that encounter is that your brain isn't expecting it and so when the cat came off the woods, my brain registered cat, really large cat, but it took me a couple of seconds to realize what sort of cat it was. It was brief, but still an amazing encounter for me.



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I applaud those folks who try to work with the predators' natural instincts and use guard animals to protect their livestock. The folks who advocate wiping predators off the map are the same ones who will be crying when they are overrun with pesky prey species and will then need to advocate killing all of them. A vicious circle.


Amen to that.


And not just what most people think of as prey species . . . there'll be a whole lot more rodents, too. They're prey for the coyotes, of course, but many people think of prey species as the ones people like to prey on. The others they consider varmints. ;)

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Thanks all, I hope you understand that is Pete and my Idea as well. We fit in. I was taught this. We have areas on the land where wildlife travel freely and they leave us alone and we leave them alone. Most of the time all that is necessary to deter is a well placed shot near them to teach the meaning of 'No Easy Meal.' It is best to teach predators no easy meal when young. In this way they keep young predators away and teach their young to kill only wild species. Because domestic animals are easy to kill and trigger a strong response as prey. Also predators can be moved. If I needed to actually kill something it would be last resort and I would also eat it.


However, make no mistake- A horse was killed in his corral by a grizz maybe 10 miles from me.

20 miles from me 48 calves were lost to wolves. ( Think about that in terms of being able to lose that kind of money.)


When a rancher is struggling to survive and has many middlemen between him and customer it is hard. When there is no extra $ to purchase electric fencing or Guard dogs- non-profits need to be set up to help. As this new one- Young Mountain.


The ranchers are part of the picture as well. We admire the nomads of Mongolia and the folks still living with their herds in Africa. The old Freedom is still part of the American rancher. It is important and understanding and listening are also compassion.


Tickman loves Downton Abbey


I try to use humour when I can.



It will be interesting to see what the next fifty years brings.


My suggestion is put your money where your heart is when you buy anything from food to clothes.

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I live surrounded by coyotes, as I am surrounded by desert. Lots and lots and lots of coyotes, and we hear them very close by almost every day and/or night. They never worry me at all, but of course I never leave my small dogs outside even in the fenced yard. Sometimes my dogs want to bark back at them when they howl, but I discourage that.


Most interesting thing that happened so far was one time I was throwing frisbee for Jester in the unfenced front of my property, and looked up to see a large coyote standing at the corner of the property just watching. His head went back and forth, watching Jes run to fetch the disc and bring it back to me. Jes knew he was there but just ignored him, or else was so focused on frisbee that he did not notice, perhaps. I know that Kit saw him, as she looked right at him, but she was also too focused (on Jes, rather than the frisbee) to do anything more than look away again. Since everything seemed OK, (I did not have the small dogs at that time), I just kept throwing. The coyote watched for what might have been as much as two minutes......it seemed like a long time......and then between one second and the next he vanished, the way they do. It was kind of cool, and I wondered what he thought of us.

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