Weaves - how quickly (or long!) did it take your dog to "get it"?

[KJT]

Just interested in how long it took for the light bulb to go off in your dogs head and they "just got it" with the weaves?

 

My first agility dog (mixed bred rescue) took a whole year! Only doing it in a class situation once a week. Only method taught by instructor was straight up weaves, so luring was encouraged. She completes at senior level now (5 years later) and I wouldnt say her weaves are 100% (difficult entries are hit and miss and sometimes she pops out at 12), and they are also not warp speed, but on the whole, they are not too bad for having learnt them this way.

 

My young BC is the opposite of the old girl - he has enormous drive, loves his job and loves agiiity. I expected him to get weaves quickly, but nooooooo!!! He is being taught a mix of SG's 2x2's and channel method. We have had to go back to basics (single gate entry) several times, as the minute the channel gets to within a few inches, he starts missing them altogether. We are now 6 months down the track and he still cant weave 6 (or even 4!) in a straight line.

 

Is it just a matter of one day they just wake up and go "ohhhhh I get it!"?? How long have your dogs taken to do 12 weaves independently?

[CptJack]

It really, really depends on your definition of getting it.

At home, in class, or in a trial? 6 or 12? Finding the entrance from a distance or me feeding them in? With speed, or just through them? Marking every completed weave as correct or not? Leaving them while weaving or walking beside them? I know you answered this, but.

 

Kylie learned how to weave at home, with 6, on side, and me feeding her into the entrance relatively quickly - relatively, I taught without any real guidance and just fumbled through. A year on, and she can do on side, off side, find the entrance, and do 12 decently quickly at home and at practice. At trial, she's still less reliable and slower and less independent, too. (I also broke them COMPLETELY by prematurely entering her into a weaver's course and over practicing them - she stressed out, decided they were awful and just refused to try so we had to go back to ground zero.)

 

It took Molly about a month to learn to weave 6 in a straight line with some speed and independence. In practice she's kind of 50-50 with getting them or blowing them but she's not competing, isn't even old enough to compete, and is dealing with a lot of other stress in the environment. She's also at least 6 months from even *thinking* about competing in any class that involves weaves, and probably more like a year, so whatever.

 

(Both my dogs do NADAC, where Novice dogs only have 6. )

[CptJack]

Oh, I will also my BC has had a harder time in some ways BECAUSE she's fast and enthusiastic. That makes collection a pretty hard for her, sometimes. We had similar issues with contacts. She puts it together and gets it, but when you're running in full extension and have a ton of legs, pulling up to hit those weaves and stay in them is a kind of control that isn't easy.

[mum24dog]

My current youngster wasn't interested in 2 x 2 or channels, which I have used with success in the past, but a couple of days using straight weaves and he got it, so much so that I had to put them away for a couple of months as I didn't want to push him too hard too young.

 

We're back with it now at 14 months and he can do 12 entirely independently of me and we are working on difficult entries. Fast enough but I expect him to move up a couple of gears in the ring. Again, I don't want to insist on top speed too soon, but neither do I believe in teaching slowly and hoping that speed will come.

 

I've noted that the dogs with the fastest weaves in our club have all been taught on straight weaves, but they are the most driven anyway. I find that less driven dogs or those with an action that needs help can benefit from channels.

 

Little and often is they key rather than long sessions. I do 2 or 3 repetitions at meal times, feeding from the bowl as a reward.

[mum24dog]

I would also add that I'm not a huge fan of using 6 weaves in training. Once the dog has got the idea it's 12 from then on.

[CptJack]

Yeah, I *don't* stick around 6 indefinitely, but I also do like to make sure the dogs can do decent entries and see them as part of sequences before I start doing 12. That's mostly my instructor's advice and I happily follow along.

I should add that I think sometimes the biggest mistake made is over-doing weaves. I did it and I've seen and talked to so many other people who did. It's really easy to stress a dog about them, then the dog gets turned off and performance just tanks. I took a dog who was fast, happy, and enthusiastic and turned her into a dog who was slow, inconsistent, and just... bad, by stressing her out about them. Her confidence tanked, all the positive associations went away.

 

So, agreed on short sessions. Two minutes a day and we're good (cumulative), but I won't do more than that, really. Run them through each side in some way or another, feed and walk. away. Molly's a little more forgiving of pressure but my little dog is NOT and weaves are where she shows stress first in a trial, anyway.

[mum24dog]

My dog has a pretty short back or I would have waited longer to start proper weave training.

[KJT]

CptJack, by "getting it", I mean independent entries both sides, no luring, handler can be anywhere and dogs continues to drive through without handler assistance (verbal or hand gestures), and full 12 with an even foot pattern.

 

I've heard various people say at competition, 'oh my dog did 12 weaves in 12 days', or 'we only started training them a few weeks ago henpecked it up straight away' (and is now doing successfully in then ring!).

 

Just genuinely interested in how long it took other people's dogs to be confident, independent weavers (hard question I know, when there can be so many variables between dogs, training methods, equipment, drive etc).

[mum24dog]

Yoni who claims such perfection is lying or deluded.

 

There's guy here who posted a video on line showing impressive examples of how solidly proofed his dog's weaves were.

 

A few days later I watched his dog miss its entry in front of a watching crowd who were highly amused.

[airbear]

Just genuinely interested in how long it took other people's dogs to be confident, independent weavers (hard question I know, when there can be so many variables between dogs, training methods, equipment, drive etc).

My current competition dog did, in fact, learn 12 poles in 12 sessions. We followed the Susan Garrett 2x2 DVD, and he seemed to get it quite quickly. I do have a fairly large yard and the equipment, so we could practice regularly, in short sessions.

 

I wouldn't say his weaves are completely independent, because I can't send him to weave all 12 while I go another direction. I can be laterally 20 metres away, but the direct send has eluded us (and some would say that could be fixed with a wee bit of practice ). He rarely faults poles in trials, and he can make hard entries, tolerates severe crosses before and after poles, and generally is a good weaver. He's not blazing fast in the poles, but he gets 'er done.

 

[mum24dog]

Lots of people don't like training weaves. It's my favourite thing.

[mum24dog]

Have to add that there is no rush in any agility training. It's one thing to teach a young dog to seek out an angled entry, quite another to demand an almost 360 degree entry turn at speed. That's something a newbie dog won't meet for some time.

 

I'm all for training for where you want to be rather than for where you are but there are limits when dealing with young bodies.

 

I don't particularly mollycoddle my dogs but a bit of common sense needs to be

applied.

[CptJack]

I honestly think it may be YEARS before I call Kylie's weaves 'trained'. The simple fact of the matter is, when she's stressed at a trial? They fall apart. At least, I think it's because she's stressed. She is GORGEOUS at lessons, practices, home, even show 'n goes, but I get about one solid, good, set of weaves in a trial (if I'm lucky). After that, not so much. I'm not sure what the deal is, but my trainer really seems to think it's just being at a trial, so I'm going with that.

 

(I like training weaves, I do, but I do not like the awkward feedback loop of my dog and I psyching each other else about them, if I don't very, very carefully watch it.)

[gonetotervs]

I think some dogs just can't figure out the body mechanics of weaving very easily. Sometimes the old stand-by method of channel weaves with guide wires really helps a long-backed or larger dog sort her body into three poles at once. It's not my favorite method because it can take a while to get rid of the wires, but it does teach the dog how to move through weaves.

[airbear]

I really like training weaves, which I thought I'd never say since my second dog was a HORRIBLE weaver for the first 6 years of her career. What made a huge difference for me was having a place to train whenever I wanted, so if we were having a bad day, I could just come in, have a snack, and try it again later, rather than trying to cram training into whatever barn time I had.

 

Bar trained up pretty much as quickly as Rex, though I used a slight variation on the 2x2 training method (Mary Ellen Barry's method vs Susan Garrett's). He hasn't trialled yet, so I can't speak to how well his poles will hold up in a trial.

[Cass C]

I have two dogs about the same age and Lily took to weaves consistently in about 4 weeks (not perfect just consistent most of the time.) Lyka my slightly older bc/bc mix? has been working for I believe 4 months now and still doesn't have them as well as Lily. Half the time she does it right the other half the time she just decides they are no fun. I loved training weaves!

 

I am training with a well respected highly sought after trainer in my area and have tried several methods (2x2, channels, straight weaves...). I think there is only so much you can do. Some dogs just seem to get it others just don't or take a long time. Don't feel like it's a race to get your dog to do an obstacle, because every dog learns at a different pace. My trainer also says it gets easier once you can get one dog to learn it, it is possible to do 12 weaves in 12 days if you are experienced enough to know how.

 

To answer your other question yes..and no... Lily did have an ahh ha moment, but it wasn't out of nowhere I trained 30 minutes of weaves every day for 4 weeks straight and every day you could see her getting closer and closer to that moment of "I get it now!"

[mum24dog]

I hate guide wires, but then I don't like any aids that need to be faded out.

 

Cedar had great weaves trained on channels without weaves. We went to a class where guides were in place and I made the mistake of thinking it wouldn't matter. Wrong. He freaked (as far as I could tell) at the sensation of his tail touching the guides and was never as confident again.

[mum24dog]

Scrub what I just said. It's nonsense bearing in mind that I do use a clicker when needed. I don't like physical means of getting a dog to perform the desired behaviour.

[gonetotervs]

mum24dog, I think guide wires can get in the way for a lot of dogs. I do think they are good for some body-insensitive dogs who haven't sorted out how to organize themselves. My preference is train with channel weaves and use a set of 4 or2x2s to train entries, but I've had one Mal and a student's Golden who needed guide wires. They created that "lightbulb" moment.

[Laurelin]

It took Hank like... 2 months to go to 12? with 1-3 sessions a week. They're not completely independent yet and he has a tendency still to pop the last one if I move away too fast. But he's hitting entrances really nicely and some hard entrances too. He's pretty consistent.

 

Summer took over 2 years to get lured weaves on one side. She just cannot learn them.