Ways to teach pup "that'll do"

[SKrava]

So my border collie came from two working parents, she is OBSESSED with fetch. And I don't mind playing with her everyday to help her get out her working dog instict but she will never stop once I get a ball out. It almost seems unhealthy. Do you guys have any tips?? I want to keep her mind working but she needs to know when to be done.

[waffles]

I say "that'll do" , pick up the toy and game is over. I use it outside so my dogs know that this game is over and now it's time to... Go pee, walk around, lay around and not focus on toys, whatever. Remember, you have the power to put the toy away.

 

You can also clip the leash on her if she is still focused on the toy and just become boring. Once she is relaxed and not thinking about the toy, you can go back to playing. I like to teach it so it doesn't mean fun is over forever, just right now this is over but something else fun may be coming up.

 

That's pretty much how I taught it and I use it in different settings. For instance if my dog is hell bent on picking up a stick and throwing at me constantly while on off leash walks. I just say that'll do and we get to just go back to walking. If needed sometimes I have to step on the stick before he realizes I mean it. I also sometimes use it at the door when he alert barks, I say that'll do, pat him on the head and he goes back to laying down or watching out the door.

[GentleLake]

Obsessively focusing on or chasing a ball is not tuning into her working instinct nor is it keeping her mind working. In fact I'd say it's pretty mindless. If it's obsessive to the point that it seems unhealthy, it probably is.

 

You don't say how old she is, but I'd consider doing some impulse control training and some other kinds of activities that will actually engage her mind. If sheep work isn't an option, as it isn't for so many of us, you might consider Nose Work, trick training, agility, etc.

 

A certain amount of playing fetch is OK, but you should be controlling how much she plays, not the dog.

[chene]

The best trick I've found to getting Aed to stop, which I actually got from the members of these boards, is saying "last one", then throwing it a last time, THEN saying "all done", "that'll do", etc. Usually the second command isn't even necessary. He is happy to go fetch the '"last one" and then settle down.

[CptJack]

I agree that fetch isn't a thinking activity and it's really not 'tuning into her instinct'. It's fun for the dogs, and it's a good way to get exercise in without running yourself ragged, but that's about it (unless you're using a throw as a reward when working through tricks/commands, which I do sometimes).

 

For stopping - I just don't let balls and discs come inside. They live on the porch. We go play, I say 'all done', pick up the ball and then walk back into the house, drop the ball off and bring the dog inside. We never, ever, play inside.

 

I realized quickly Molly would be a pest if she was allowed access to that sort of thing inside. So, she has no access. I pretty heavily enforce 'indoors is for chilling out', too. I'll admit she and the GSD mix (They're the youngest two) do some rough and tumble inside sometimes, but if it goes longer than about five minutes they get tossed into the yard.

 

She gets a lot of exercise, training, and play, but indoors is NOT the place, and it also keeps me firmly in control of when, where, and for how long.

[Maja]

Good advice and thoughts here. Fetch is easy as said - just say that'll, do take the toy and that's it. Concerning the mindlessness the same: I think fetch is like window shopping for a restaurant (thought/mind activity) - you've got to eat at some point, otherwise you'll go from window to window desiring more and more and yet not be satisfied until you sit down and eat. If you don't, at some point you'll drop from exhaustion, but still you haven't eaten .

 

I think a lot of obsessive behavior stems from this emotion in border collies - starving for intellectual occupation and not getting it.

[waffles]

I second CptJack's post. I am always a bit surprised when I go to someone's house and see all the fetch toys and how they actually throw balls inside. The house is for training, relaxing, eating, chewing and so on, but I don't want my tv broken or the cats trampled. I like to relax in the house too and having toys throw at me while I try to eat or relax is just not fun. Before the puppy, we had no toys out in the hous. Now there is a couple of chew toys out and that's it. Frisbee, balls stay outside. Levi tries hard to get me to throw a nylabone for him, he doesn't get that they're for chewing.

[SKrava]

Thanks for all the positive feedback! I really appreciate it. I don't think it's mindless at all, I've had dog trainers and sheephearders tell me that it's their instinct to go and retrieve things (sheep, balls, frisbees) and this is the first basic steps to herding. Who knows though.

 

I don't let her have any balls or anything she likes to play fetch with in plain site. We always do it outside and then ill bring the toy in a put it somewhere she can't see it.

 

I tried a little of all your advice at the park tonight and she was already picking up on when I said we were done! Amazing how quick they catch on huh? I'm going to take her to some more dog training classes, we've done one obedience class when she was a puppy so I'm thinking this will help her not get bored

[CptJack]

If liking to retrieve balls is a herding thing, then labs are half-way to fetching sheep and my chi mix is a heck of a herder Retrieve/fetch is just a dog game and basically based on prey-drive. Herding is basically based on prey-drive, too, but that's about the extent of it.

 

More classes are a good idea. I find more structured activity and rules go a long way toward keeping a BC satisfied. Even playing fetch with my girl I'll ask her to sit, or down, or spin, or heel, or whatever before she gets the next toss. I also keep tosses a bit erratic so she actually has to figure out where the ball is going and find it. Throw it into brush, bounce it so it travels erratically, throw low, throw high, throw behind me, throw long, throw short. Anything to keep it switched up.

 

Glad she's picking it up!

[GentleLake]

I don't think it's mindless at all...

 

Think of any single repetitive motion you might do, like tossing a ball against the side of a building and catching it, or stirring a pot of soup. How much brain activity would you be putting into it if you were to do it over and over and over? Not much. In fact, you'd probably get bored with it after a while; most people would. Unless they have OCD.

 

Well, I've always joked that border collies are selectively bred for OCD. The determination to keep working their livestock is an asset to a farmer or shepherd who needs a dog to keep working for long hours in all sorts of conditions. But it can backfire when the dog's a companion without any real work to do. In fact, border collies are well known for their obsessive tendencies. In dogs the diagnosis is Canine Compulsive Disorder (CCD) and unfortunately it occurs at a higher rate in border collies than in a lot of other breeds.

 

CptJack already explained the retrieve being that basis for herding as well as I could. Its only the basis for herding in as far as all dogs retain the most rudimentary basis for it. When it tips over into obsessiveness it's more the equivalent of a working dog who's just blindly chasing her sheep rather than thinking about what she's doing and it's not a good thing.

 

Ongoing classes will probably be good for your dog. And it sounds like she's already learning to be done when you tell her you're done. I think one of the reasons giving a dog a "last one" cue works so well is that they understand that the play's going to end and have a moment to accept that fact rather than being sorely disappointed when it happens abruptly and unexpectedly. I've always considered considerate to warn my dogs that we're going to end the play, which is why I've shared it here when people mention how their dogs pester them to continue. It's a matter of respect for their feelings.

[SKrava]

I guess I should clarify too, we don't just throw it over and over for her. The dog trainer we go to opened out eyes to the fact that we can get her to learn anything very quickly by throwing the ball and making her wait and do a trick. We have taught her everything (roll over, being shot, shaking with one paw and then the other, running out half way then laying down) by playing fetch. So we definitely keep it interesting in that aspect of it and switch up the commands each time the ball is thrown

[Maralynn]

For some (many high energy) dogs, actively teaching them to chill is as important as any other training. They like to go, go, go. They can go, go, go. But they need to know how to settle.

 

I also try to get more physical activity than his one main activity. I think right now I only actually play ball with my dogs once or twice a week. They go swimming, biking, off leash runs, conditioning exercises, climbing on stuff all over the place. I think that variety is really good to add when you're at all able to.

[D'Elle]

I easily see the point that some folks are making about never playing fetch in the house, but I have always done so with Jes. Fetching something is Jester's favorite thing, indoors or out, any distance. But I have always been in control of the toys and when we play and when we don't. He learned early on that when I said "That'll do" the toys went away and the play was over and no matter how he begged it would not start again, so the begging became a self-extinguishing behavior.

 

(I admit, though, that now that he is well into his 14th year I have become pretty lax. He gets away with a lot these days because I just don't care about making sure he is entirely obedient any more....I just want him to have all the fun he can. So these days he gets to ask me if I will throw something, and I usually do, if not right at that moment then soon after.)

[CptJack]

Honestly, just keeping the balls outside was how I enforced an off switch for Molly - the house is boring, may as well just go to sleep and relax, because nothing exciting is going to happen. I actively cue her getting excited about stuff as we head for the door by asking if she wants to go play. If she doesn't hear that phase, she stays chill. That *works* for me, really, really well. In the house, she's a chilled out doll. Ask her if she wants to go play and she is up, ready to go and will give me everything she's got (at ball, at agility, hiking, swimming, disc, training, whatever) until I tell her we're done and take the toy away and go back to the house or car or crate - then she chills again.

She knows, I guess I am saying, how to be bored rather than needing constant stimulation.

The rest of it's just practicality. Molly has a strong desire to chase the ball. My 100+lb GSD mix has a strong desire to chase Molly. My house has smallish rooms with lots of stuff in them. I like most of my stuff, you know? *G*

[SKrava]

How did you guys get your dogs into agility?? Just with a leash and lead them around? And when you say agility I'm assuming you mean the obstacle courses at some dog parks?

 

Also, what kind of conditioning exercises are good to start out with?

[CptJack]

No, I mean competitive agility, though the equipment might be the same it's very much a sport and I'd be pretty wary of willy nilly going on dog park equipment without learning to do it safely, on leash is, IMO, dangerous as heck and none of that teaches you to handle the dog anyway.

 

I signed up for a foundations class and went from there. Lots, I'd say even most, areas have them, often in the same club or place as obedience classes. Just do a google search. The foundations class doesn't usually have obstacles and covers the sort of work you need to do, to make sure they're safe on those obstacles. Especially since you don't want jumping or weaving before growth plates have closed.

[Maralynn]

There's a Canine Conditioning FB group that has lots conditioning and body awareness activity ideas.

[GentleLake]

No, I mean competitive agility...

 

There are plenty of people who do agility but never compete.

 

There are agility classes all over the place where people take classes just for fun. Some start out with the idea of its just being a fun activity for them and their dogs and then later decide they want to compete. That's OK, too, but it's also OK just to do agility just for fun.

 

It is true that you should at least start with a class so that you can learn how to do it safely and to condition your dog. After that there's no reason why you can't buy or build your own equipment and do it it your own backyard. . . . or do parkour, where you use whatever obstacles you find in the neighborhood or environment.

 

Search "parkour dog" if you want some inspiration for what you can do! Just be sure you have a good foundation of training agility before attempting it on your own.