Age and temperament

[TxMom]

I'm popping back out of lurking mode to ask a quick question. We're in the process of adopting a Border Collie for our family. Because we have young kids (7, 5 and 3) we're going with an adult from a rescue -- theory being that with an adult we know what we're getting. That being the case, at what approximate age would you say that what you see is what you get, or at least close enough not to matter? For the sake of argument, what age would you recommend as the youngest dog to adopt with kids in the picture?

 

What I'm most concerned about is that we don't get a dog who seems to love kids and be ok with the inevitable low-level chaos, but later turns out to be stressed by it all. Minor personality shifts, no biggie. But I would hate to bring a dog into a home where it wouldn't be happy.

[CptJack]

For me?

Certainly no younger than 2, and ideally somewhere in the neighborhood of 3. I've noticed a lot of furthering maturity in my own dogs between 2 and 3, with 3 being where they seem to finally have become their very best selves. Those changes are more subtle than before 2, and they're almost always positive changes (becoming steadier, more stable, more confident) but there's a lot of maturing that happens in that year, IME.

I'd take a 2 year old, for sure, and not expect any *radical* changes, but I'd lean toward 3 or older for being the best best of 'what you see as what you get'.

[Maralynn]

I'd agree with 2-3. That said, my current 2 are really good with kids. Actually, all my dogs have been and I don't see my 1.5 y/o changing at all in his happiness to see people of all ages and sizes. But the maturity they get from 2-3 really helps in the dog/kid integration process and the dog's ability to control their own playful excitement around exciting children.

 

And just because this picture from yesterday is way too cute (my niece is 5, her puppy is 7 months along with my 1.5 y/o - they all had a blast)

[TxMom]

My understanding from the rescue right now is that there are a few dogs they're currently evaluating as possibilities for us (they keep new dogs for at least four weeks, so these are in that stage). The ages of the dogs range from 9 or 10 months to 2 years. Granted, it's possible none of these current candidates will pan out and it's a non-issue (we've told them we're happy to wait for the right dog), but if they suggest one of the younger ones as their choice for us, would y'all think that's a concern in terms of the dog not doing well with the kids?

[CptJack]

I would probably not worry overly much, provided I trusted the rescue's assessment. Keeping the dogs a couple of weeks to assess them is a good sign.

 

That said, I don't know. I've seen noise sensitivity and issues with kids (or cats or other dogs or whatever) show up earlier (Molly lost her little mind around 6 months), but it seems like most of the time I've seen it show up it's been at maturity/after a year old.

So. I just don't know what to say there. Maybe someone else will have more firm opinions?

[Maralynn]

If the dog genuinely enjoys kids then I think you'll probably be fine. I got Kenzi at 10 m/o and she was always fine with people of all ages. Younger dogs can be a bit more boisterous but if they're evaluating a dog with your family in mind then you're probably just fine going with their recommendations - they've done this a lot!

[denice]

Dogs of all ages change a bit once they are comfortable or get used to a place and people. Some changes can be good, others not. To me the age of the dog does not matter as much. A younger dog generally requires more time and attention on your part. I would ask how long the rescue has "known" these dogs. Being good around kids say for a visit or meeting them on a walk is different than living with them. I would see how much prey drive and toy drive the dogs have. IF quite a bit may make them more apt to run/chase the kids and be more "aggressive" playing. Those are thing I would want to check out. Most rescues are good about trying to place dogs in homes where they have the best chance of a win win situation.

[Gideon's girl]

The biggest issue I've seen as far as changes in personality as young adult dogs age is dogs that get more or less reactive, so it isn't really a different trait popping up, it's how they respond to things increasing or diminishing. As an example, Gideon has always reacted to sudden noises. As a puppy, he would suddenly stand up and look around quickly, if he heard a sudden noise. Last year, he would jump up and run toward the noise. This year, he is jumping up, barking, and running. I'm not talking about someone knocking on the door, I'm talking about if someone reads something funny and laughs, or starts talking. Micah is the exact opposite, he went from being a wild bites everything pup to being the most laid back nonreactive pooch ever.

[CptJack]

A dog who likes kids as an older teenager isn't going to start hating them, I don't think, but a dog who suddenly starts and runs barking toward the source of sudden noise in a house with kids isn't great, you know? So, ultimately, I think I agree and I would trust the rescue to be able to read/gauge that the dog was by and large comfortable and solid.

And truthfully a really solid 10 month old is probably going to stay solid, but a 10 month old with some reactivity and sensitivities may or may not get better - or worse.

FTR: Molly started getting, um, interesting around 5-6 months and got steadily worse until she was about a year old. She's been improving some since then, but she's still a dog who wouldn't do well in a busy household with kids. Like she'd never aggress toward them, but I think she might be a nervous wreck.

[TxMom]

I think these folks will be really good about any dogs they recommend for us. In fact, there was a specific dog I inquired about and they said that although he's never had a problem with kids (his bio says he's good with kids), they just don't think he'd be a great match for young ones. I was very pleased that they would steer me away from what was probably a "just okay" dog for us in favor of finding a better fit.

 

The dogs they're considering for us have currently been with them for about three weeks, I believe. They keep them for a minimum of four weeks before they're considered adoptable; longer if there's reason. They're also willing to let us do a sort of trial run, where we would foster the dog for up to six weeks before finalizing the adoption or not. If not, we could try again with a different dog and a better understanding of what we're looking for. And of course if we did actually adopt a dog and it didn't work out, it's not like they'd turn their backs on us and tell us it's our problem.

 

I've tried hard to be completely up front about our family, our routines, our hopes and expectations, what I think we can and can't handle, etc. We're thinkers and planners, so we've spent a lot of time considering how a dog will fit into our family. Overall, I feel pretty confident being guided by this rescue group. I just want to be sure we don't make a mistake if the dog they recommend for us is a little younger than what we were thinking.

 

I don't want a very young puppy for a number of reasons, but I'm ok with a higher-energy, difficult adolescent stage for the right dog. I can be patient and consistent (hey, I've survived three toddlers!). My plan is to act like we're bringing home a puppy (leash or crate at all times, regular potty breaks, etc.) and gradually increase freedom as we build relationship and establish boundaries and expectations. Some rough and tumble is fine; the kids run into each other or fall off of bikes or out of trees anyway, so if someone gets knocked over by a playful dog it'll be no big deal. My concern is more the sort of thing Gideon's Girl mentioned: increasing reactivity. I'd hate to bring home a 9-month-old dog who does well with the activity and noise level but just can't handle it six months or a year later.

[TxMom]

And truthfully a really solid 10 month old is probably going to stay solid, but a 10 month old with some reactivity and sensitivities may or may not get better - or worse.

 

This is mostly what I was wondering. I do trust this group, but I had read a lot about dogs developing significant reactivity issues as they mature and I wasn't sure how soon you'd be able to tell.

[GentleLake]

I think it's great that they keep their dogs for 4 weeks before putting them up for adoption! The one I volunteer with is a minimum of 2, although in practice it's almost always longer.

 

The last dog I adopted was 6 months old. I was hoping for another therapy dog and she seemed perfect, great with people of all ages and great with other dogs. I continued to socialize her, but she developed serious reactivity to other dogs at a little over a year old.

 

Most people believe there's a fear period that extends from about 6 - 14 months of age, during which things like this can happen. Will it happen in all dogs? Certainly not. Can you predict which will have issues and which won't. Unfortunately, no.

 

I have no idea what set Tansy off or when it happened, but it did. Now she's close to 4 years old and I'm still working with her with limited success. She still has a pretty significant threshold distance with dogs she doesn't know, and while the length of time it takes her to become comfortable with then is lessening, it still takes a while. I'm not sure we'll ever manage to get to a point where she can be a therapy dog.

 

I think if I really wanted to avoid the greatest potential for major personality changes, I'd probably look for a dog at least 18 months old. As someone else mentioned, any dog of any age can change somewhat as it settles into its new home; they're all individuals with different genetics and different life experiences, so can react differently to new experiences to come. But I think a foster home that's had a dog of that age would be able to make a pretty good assessment of the dog. Younger than that, I think there's still room for things to happen.

 

Best wishes in your search. I wish all adopters were as thoughtful about the process as you are.

[CptJack]

This is mostly what I was wondering. I do trust this group, but I had read a lot about dogs developing significant reactivity issues as they mature and I wasn't sure how soon you'd be able to tell.

 

I... really think it probably varies, which is like the *least* reassuring thing in the world, I know. At some point it's going to be a leap of faith.

 

If I really, really wanted to be as sure as it was possible to be sure, I'd get a 3+ year old. That's all I can really tell you. Dogs don't, IMO, ever really stop changing. Even the dogs I adopted as adults (at 4 and 5 years old) have changed. Less so than the dogs I adopted as pups, but quite a bit. Experiences count, and there are biological factors and just all sorts of things.

 

Much like the kid you see at 18 isn't necessarily the same as a 30 year old, a 2 year old dog and a 9 year old one can be a lot different in a lot of ways.

 

If I were in your situation, I'd probably try and skip all the fear periods, but I'd also trust the rescue and just make peace with the fact that dogs, people, and lives change and all you can do is all you can do and at some point it's going to be down to a leap of faith, no matter what.

[TxMom]

Thanks, y'all. I'll keep all of this in mind and consider it along with what the rescue recommends for us. I'm really counting on them knowing what they're doing.

 

CptJack, thanks for the reminder that in the end it's a leap of faith. Things may go crazy in spite of our best efforts, and if so we'll deal with it. I guess I just don't want to end up kicking myself over it because we made some obvious mistake.

 

Maralynn, I love the photo with your niece! She looks like she's having a blast.

 

Hopefully in the next few weeks I'll be posting dog pictures... crossing my fingers that everything comes through and one of these dogs will be just right for us!

[Cass C]

I'd agree that a 3 year old dog would be less of a leap of faith than a 10 month old dog. My dogs didn't completely come into their own until about 2 years, which is when I noticed a definite shift in maturity and solidifying their personality.

 

However trust the rescue and I say definitely take advantage of the foster to adopt! That way you are also helping the rescue learn more about the dog even if it doesn't work out with you and you don't have to go through the struggle of putting an officially adopted dog back into the rescue (which can make that dog's record look worse than being returned because a foster didn't work out.)

[borasaurus]

I adopted Kieran when he was guessed to be about 2-3. He loved everyone when I first got him, to the point where he'd be jumping on random people at the store to say hi. After about a year though, he got much more introverted around strangers - to the point of being reactive - even with plenty of socialization. I think his true personality was finally able to come out, helped along by having a permanent home. However, he still loves and gets excited to see people he knows. He did change a lot from how the rescue described him (and they had him for a month).