Jump to content
BC Boards

Ohio Breeders


Recommended Posts

cptjack, maralynn, borasarus, and mum: I agree and appreciate all of your responses. Perhaps I should clarify my original statement and explain the "obey my every command". I definitely understand that those "expectations" may be irrational and perhaps impossible. I have trained many dogs throughout my life however I have never had a border collie yet. I agree I am not going to be able to have my dog obey "every" command. I have just read throughout this forum and others, and books, other articles online, etc. about how intelligent the border collie breed is and this has thoroughly intrigued me and that is why I have always wanted a Border Collie. I understand as well that their intelligence may actually be one of the challenging aspects of owning a border collie. That is one of the reasons I come to all of you for help and "support" although I'm finding out the hard way that some of the advice may be a bit harsh and some of my replies may be translated a bit differently than I had thought. Like I said I am not giving up on this group. I agree a puppy is a gamble. ANY dog at ANY age is a gamble when acquiring a new member of the family. I love animals and I hope some day that I can say that one of my family members is a border collie.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dear Doggers,

 

The Border Collie is exceptionally trainable. ( Trainability and intelligence are not the same thing.) Moreover, they are willing - some are desperately willing - to work with a human being. Finally, they are "keen" which, in my view, is probably a kind of genetic OCD. Their focus can be intense.

 

A particular dog's work/play may be SAR, goosechasing, stockwork,obedience, rally, agility, fetching the paper, traveling with its master . . . .

 

It's trainability can be a real problem since the young dog is learning ALL THE TIME and can easily learn unintended lessons very quickly and correcting mistakes (undoing mistraining) can be time consuming and sophisticated.

 

It's keenness can be a problem because it can obsess on a sunbeam, a bug, a neighbor's cat, a mailbox and it takes some skill to spot that obsession coming and redirect it.

 

You don't need to be a wonderful dog trainer to train a Border Collie - tens of thousands of stockmen around the world use Border Collies they haven't 'trained'. And training a goose dog isn't especially difficult. But you'll need patience, clarity and consistency in your own goals for the dog and unless you're already animal-savvy you'll need to learn to "see" your dog. Respect them and they will respect you.

 

It can be done. I was an animal ignoramus when I bought my first pup "Oh, you're picking up a Border Collie pup at the State Fair? I haven't got Anne a birthday present. Buy me a pup too."

 

If I can learn, anybody can. The dogs will teach you as they taught me.

 

Donald McCaig

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Buckeyemanohio,

I think where the miscommunication is coming with Roxanne is that you think she's saying that your desire to get a puppy is flawed, but that's not what she's saying. She's saying the reasons you give for not going for a rescue are flawed. Those are two very different things. People will routinely suggest rescue here. It's not meant to be offensive to anyone. It's just that so many people get border collie puppies, are completely unprepared for the experience, and end up giving up on those dogs by the time they're adolescents (12-18 months). No one is saying you will do that, but this is the experience of the many experienced people on this forum. Please don't take offense when someone suggests rescue or if someone disagrees with your assertion that rescue dogs have the sort of idiosyncracies or insurmountable baggage that puppies simply don't come with.

 

I started with rescue dogs (lost the last one last year a few weeks shy of age 17) and after the fifth adult rescue (or gift or purchase in the case of two working dogs) I got my first puppy (she's 13.5 now, and retired). I don't think everyone has to go that route, but it worked for me and my situation. All of the border collies I have had (a total of 15, 20 if I count fosters who have passed through, and two puppies I ended up placing because of hearing issues) have been different and have been a learning experience for me. Five of them have passed away (all 15+ years old), and two I placed in other homes, for different reasons (those two I raised from puppyhood), one because she kept picking fights with my old dogs, the other because a perfect home came along and although I had trained him fully as a working dog, he didn't suit my needs in a working dog.

 

I know you understand that those little blank slates that are puppies can develop all sorts of quirks, etc., that can be disappointing, difficult to work through, etc. But I love a puppy and I have a blast training them up, so I get the reasons others want to do the same.

 

I don't train mine in obedience, and tricks are just for fun, but I do have fun with them, and when it's time to put them on stock, then the real pleasure of training really begins for me.

 

If you don't want to go the rescue route, though as others have said puppies do end up in rescue, so it's not impossible to find one.

 

Sue's two suggestions for OH breeders are the two I would suggest as well. If you don't mind waiting, one or the other may be willing to put you on a list for a puppy. Both are very well known trainers and handlers of working border collies. Both should produce very nice working dogs. And as someone else said, they could probably point you in the direction of a suitable breeder(s) if they don't have any plans to breed soon or all pups are spoken for.

 

I also want to make a note about goose control work. It's seems pretty obvious (the work needed), but most goose control dogs are very carefully trained. Geese are federally protected, so there are things you can and cannot do legally when working/hazing them. You may already know that, but since other people read these threads, I just wanted to point that out. Because the dogs are often working in very public places, they need to have impeccable manners around people and a rock solid recall and lie down (because many places where goose control is needed also have a lot of traffic, which of course is dangerous to the dog). There are also the PETA types out there, and just soft-hearted people in general who may take exception to the harassing of geese, so you need to be prepared to be able to explain what you are doing and how, and most important, that the dog never touches the geese. Goose control can be a lucrative business--I have good friends and my current neighbor who work in that business. During nesting season expect long, hard days though.

 

Anyway, I just wanted to offer my thoughts and to maybe defuse the misunderstanding between you and Roxanne. Good luck in your search for a puppy. A border collie puppy can be the best and the worst thing that will ever happen to you! ;)

 

And one last thing: As others have already noted, well bred working dogs have a strong desire to please and work with a human (in general). Many don't do well with a human who has a drill seargeant attitude. Not saying that's you, but a couple of the comments you made just led me to want to give that warning.

 

J.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

i have a feeling we'll be seeing a great dog in ohio rescue next year.

 

Rifftie, I cannot help but wonder just how you thought that this comment would help anyone, or would add anything worthwhile to this discussion. If we alienate people who come here for help by needlessly making offensive and insulting comments, then we will not be able to help them or thier dogs.

I just wanted to say I got Kieran from a rescue when he was two and he was pretty much a blank slate. All he had was potty and some crate training. He didn't even have a reliable sit. Every command he knows, I taught it. Even "potty" as a command was something I taught him. And people are always shocked by all the things he knows now. I understand if you don't want a rescue dog, but there are a lot of overgeneralizations in your post that rule out fantastic rescue dogs. If anything, getting a puppy is way more of a crapshoot. Some of the most rascally dogs I know were raised from puppyhood (and by dog trainers, no less). There is nothing wrong with either route, though, and I hope you find what you're looking for.

To the OP: I want to second this. I know you want a puppy and I don't think there's anything wrong with that, but just to comment: I also got a 2 year old rescue who was pretty much a blank slate, and trained him to be the perfect dog for me.

 

Also, I want to encourage you to check out rescues in your area for puppies. Often, rescues get pregnant female dogs and have whole litters up for adoption.

I am glad you are sticking around here, because while we can all be pretty passionate and are not always tactful, this is the place you will get the very best information and advice you can find on border collies. I wish you luck!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

One thing I think deserves noting is that Border Collies, as a breed, like to work so much that they are willing to work for anybody, so don't be surprised if your dog that received all its training and every command from you decides that he is a free agent and goes to work for someone else. They are a very fun breed and really exciting to work with, but they definitely do have more than their share of oddities.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh. Yeah. Molly is the first dog I've ever had that will really, really, work for anyone - and that includes informal situations where we're at the park or in a class and someone else calls their dog with a formal command. She's PERFECTLY willing to go to them because they called. Or sit for them. Or stand on her head for them. Not because she likes treats better, but because hey - she knows what that means and they asked and doing this is fun and-

 

Yeah. Even if I'm standing right there.

 

It's... not something that even occurred to me as a downside but it's a real thing. Which is funny because the ONLY time she cares about strangers is if they're giving commands or holding a ball. Otherwise, meh, strange people, whatever. (Okay, our trainer gets an exception. Molly is IN LOVE with our agility trainer. Problematically in love with her. Bad manners in love with her, but that's a whole different thread).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Buckeymanohio,

Thank you so much for your post. I have learned a ton of stuff through this thread. And I can tell you from experience that this group is very passionate and truly care about the BC breed. They are helpful, honest, will call you out if they see or think you are doing something harmful to your dog...and I so appreciate that.

 

This group has helped me so much. And actually I think when I first started I was naive enough to post something to the affect that maybe because I had a mix they wouldn't help me. How very wrong I was.

 

And as others have posted, the written word, without the benefit of our facial expressions and tone of voice can sometimes be misinterpreted and for me, I have had to clarify more than once when I wrote something that was taken in the wrong context. I am so glad you are staying and I am looking forward to keeping up with this particular thread.

 

Teri

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dear Doggers,

 

Ms. Gideon's Girl wrote: "One thing I think deserves noting is that Border Collies, as a breed, like to work so much that they are willing to work for anybody . . ."

 

Some will, some won't. Fly won't even take a walk with the other dogs and Person Not Donald.

 

Donald

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wow! Thank you all! This is the information I have been looking for! A lot of these conversations have gotten out of control and may have gotten a bit heated but I figured we could all weather through it and get some positive results.

 

Julie thank you so much for your awesome advice and wisdom. I have to admit and agree that some of my comments like "obey my every command" may have sounded like a drill sergeant. I guess I would have to say that may have been a bad choice of words. But I am definitely not like that and WILL not be like that with a new dog. I train with love and affection. Training takes time, lots and lots of time. As was stated earlier texting or typing stuff on here can often times get misinterpreted or misconstrued. Julie I would however like to talk to you in a bit more detail about goose chasing. I don't know if this is the right forum or not. Should I post on another forum or send you a message?

 

D"Elle thanks for being so nice and supporting me!

Donald & CptJack thanks for sharing your experiences and knowledge as well!

Teri thanks for your support and kind words too!

 

I am glad I am going to stick around and THIS is why I come to this board because of people like all of you who have given such positive and helpful advice. I am actually considering many options now after discussions on this board. Although I love puppies and that may be the route I go I certainly am not completely closed off to looking into other possibilities such as a rescue or other. However, if I go down another path other than the "puppy path" I think my desire would be to get a younger dog or an "older puppy" but that's just my preference. Who knows now, we will see!!

 

Again, thank you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not sure where in OH you are but the NEBCA site has a classified section where litters and dogs are listed. Also handlerspost.com Also petfinder.com-just put your zip and breed in.

 

Also, look for local trials in your area. If you want to do goose work, it would make sense to immerse yourself in the culture of working dogs even though goose work is different than working stock. You can at least speak to those who know how to train and work their dogs in a way totally different than pet dogs. You may also want to spend a day with someone who is in the business you want to be in to see if it really is something you want to persue.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello,

 

Please also remember that rescues often have litters of puppies available. In most cases where a litter is available, they go really fast! So it is helpful to be approved by rescues before litters come into rescue. Rescues also get one off puppies from time to time.

 

Just as a quick personal aside, my Jess came into rescue at 10 months old from cattle dog lines. Her story was that she was too much for her family to handle. (She is a handful!) But she is a lovely dog and has just needed some time to adjust to my house, routine, and learn some basic manners. She needed consistency, attention, and love. She is keen as all get out on stock. One man's trash is another man's treasure and all....

 

Good on you for sticking around. So much is lost in translation on forums. This group is a wonderful resource full of very passionate people who love this breed so much.

 

Best,

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Fly won't even take a walk with the other dogs and Person Not Donald.

 

Not trying to beat a dead horse about rescue (I respect that the OP isn't interested), but he might find it interesting to know that, IIRC, Fly is a dog you acquired as an adult, not a puppy.

 

ETA: Wrote that before reading Buckeyemanohio's mentioning that he may consider rescue. Happy to hear that you're willing to entertain the idea.

 

Honestly, as invested in rescue as I am (I volunteer for a border collie rescue and do occasional transports for another), I'm not sure my next dog will be a rescue. I might be looking to purchase a puppy myself. So I get it. It was never about trying to convince you that you shouldn't buy a puppy, but rather that your reasons for making that choice should be well considered.

 

I look forward to hearing what you end up with.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just a comment. I like to get my puppies from good breeders because I really like to know the breeding on my dogs. And I love puppies and have so much fun with them.

 

But if you really want a dog that obeys your every command this is probably not the best breed for you. BC's think for themselves. I just don't believe in turning dogs into robots. It's just so unfair to the dog. I love dogs with personalities.

 

I also always have a rescue dog just because I think it's important to give homes to those dogs, too. I try to balance it.

 

I am seriously thinking of just taking older dogs now that I am older. One of my customers does that. They may only live a couple of years but they have a really good last few years with her and I think that is a really wonderful thing to do.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hey thanks Vicki and Waffles!!!

 

 

tommycoyote said:

 

But if you really want a dog that obeys your every command this is probably not the best breed for you. BC's think for themselves. I just don't believe in turning dogs into robots. It's just so unfair to the dog. I love dogs with personalities.

 

I totally agree I don't believe in "robotic" dogs. As I stated earlier my choice of words may not have been the best when I said "obey my every command". Of course that may be illogical but I DO want a smart and obedient dog. I love dogs and all dogs have personalities, just like people. I am excited about BC's challenging me with their thought processes, training them, and of course loving them.

 

Is there a Border Collie "cheer" or mantra or anything on here I can chant?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Buckeyemanohio,

I'd be happy to talk about goose control with you. It really does take dedication. My neighbor is out 7 days a week during peak season. Geese are smart enough to know when a predator is or isn't there, so he goes out daily and varies his times. Just something to think about. There are other times of the year that are much slower, but during spring, especially, it can be more than a full time job.

 

It's easiest for me to communicate via email. My addy is julie.k.poudrier at gmail dot com.

 

J.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 years later...

Came across this post while looking for a breeder as well, and what a joke it is... Someone asks for reputable breeders in ohio, and gets the run around and other's personal preferences and beliefs.  Get off your high horse.  Just answer people's questions.  You are in no position to judge what someone needs on a message board.. Let whoever they get the dog from do that.  You can still get a dog with previous issues as a puppy from a breeder??? yeah, right..... My previous dog was from a rescue, and frankly, from what I've experienced from other rescues, I got lucky that he was perfect in every sense. I will no longer even attempt to get a dog from a rescue, after my last 50 to 60 experiences dealing with them.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...