6 month old pup showing food aggression after new dog...

[SutterBC25]

I brought a new dog into my home last week who ended up not working out for various reasons. She was very food aggressive toward my puppy and I believe he picked it up from her, as he is now doing the same thing. He's been defensive of his food in his outdoor kennel, but not in the house.

 

I live next door to my brother, and Sutter wanders our property as it's just one chunk of land w/ multiple houses on it. Last night he was over eating some grease or something my brother had tossed out onto the ground, and my 3yo niece approached and Sutter immediately got defensive. I didn't see the incident occur as I was not outside, but according to him Sutter went after my niece and either nipped at her or scratched her, leaving a small mark on her face. It doesn't look like it drew blood, but I only saw it today. It's maybe 1/2 inch in length and slightly bruised.

I need to nip this in the bud ASAP. Puppy classes start in June, and Sutter is now not allowed outside unless supervised, in his kennel, or on a tie-out attached to my porch. Doing this for more than just the food aggression (he's been chasing one certain cat, trying to herd/play with him; and also to keep him from wandering, which he isn't bad about, but I don't want it to start.)

We have worked with him on the resource guarding and trading up games, but I feel this is a little far beyond just "trading up" to something better. Yes? No?

Any and all tips appreciated. Will neutering help? (Plan on doing this within the next two weeks.)

[moosikins]

We had some pretty severe guarding issues with Callie starting when she was 9 weeks old and we let it go until she was about 6 or 7 months old because we weren't sure how to deal with it. We took care of it with the trading up for ham, cheese, or some of her absolute favorite dog treats...It worked but it took time for her to put the sequence of events together. We're at a point now that she's a year old and we say "drop it" and she'll drop whatever she's got and come over to get petted (we've since substituted affection for treats).

 

It's a lot quicker to pick up a bad habit than to dissolve it. Good luck! Maybe your pup just needs some time to recover from the other dog scaring him and realize that his food is in no danger from people.

 

I'd also start your niece in on the training since the pup went after her (if she's willing and not too scared and your brother agrees). You can be in the way to distract him if he makes a move towards her on his own, but she could casually walk by and throw something tasty to him from a safe, comfortable distance so he learns that she's also the giver of yummy good things and not the taker.

[gcv-border]

Nope, neutering will not help.

 

I also suggest that you start training your pup to think that whenever someone approaches his food/favorite toy, he will get something good (throw some great food - steak, chicken, cheese, etc.) on the ground near him. Then walk away - at first. Again, in the beginning, I would not take anything away from him by force. I would try to entice him to give it up in exchange for something better. But I am getting ahead of myself. Just start by walking by his food, at a distance - then gradually move closer as he gets more comfortable with your presence around his food - and throw good food at him. Eventually, you will be able to approach his bowl and drop good stuff directly into it.

 

I did this with my dog as a pup and now if I approach his food with my hand, he removes his mouth from the bowl and stares at the bowl, waiting for the magic food to drop down out of the sky. I find it funny.

[SutterBC25]

He is perfectly fine with us messing with his food bowl, putting stuff in it, and does great with trading up. This particular issue seems to be stemming from food + puppy + little kids. Perhaps it's the little kids that are the bad part of the equation? He was fine with my niece before the new dog, though. So I don't know what's gotten into him.

I took him over on harness/leash last night to have my niece and her cousin (same age) give him treats and he was perfectly fine up until he was laying down on the ground with them hovering over him petting him, and I gave him a treat for being so good. Then he turned to snap at my niece's cousin. I immediately scolded him for the behaviour and pulled him away.

 

They are both scared of him now and will not go anywhere near him. I can't blame them. I was attacked by a dog when I was their age and I'm sure I was frightened of dogs afterward for a while too, and I actually *did* get phsyically injured. Thankfully Sutter hasn't made contact except for the small mark on my niece.

Maybe it's just me, but I think there is a huge difference between resource guarding and being food aggressive to the point of snapping at someone. :/

[GentleLake]

He's the equivalent of a 7-8 year old kid. If you know kids that age, they don't always make good -- or kind -- decisions. He needs to be taught what's right and wrong.

 

If you scold him over nipping over food, though, there's a reasonable chance it will backfire and he'll just be even more convinced he has to protect it.

 

It might be a good idea to consult a trainer about this. Personally, I wouldn't use one who's gong to punish the dog for it. There are other ways to deal with it.

 

ETA: At this point it doesn't matter whether he learned it from the other dog or just reached and age where it's normal for them to try this to see if it works. Not worth wasting any energy on blame. Instead, focus on the training, which will be the same either way.

[SutterBC25]

Yes, I realized after I scolded him that I probably shouldn't have done it the way I did, but I had parents watching me, and we all know how they can be if something attempts to harm their children. My worry was that if I didn't scold him, someone else would try too, and much worse. :/

 

If it happens again (and hopefully not, because I am doing my BEST to not put him in a situation where he feels like he needs to get aggressive) I will just remove him from the scene and go elsewhere.

I know it's not worth any energy placing blame on the other dog, but I had to make it clear he didn't do any of this until she came around! lol

 

ETA: Re: consulting a trainer, he starts puppy classes in June, so I will talk to the trainer either before then, or during the first class, and see about potentially doing some private sessions. Her prices are a bit spendy though!

[Hooper]

A couple things:

 

You've gotten some good advice about dealing with food guarding, but consider the possibility that food possessiveness may not be the only thing that's triggering the snapping. You didn't see the first incident, but you describe the second incident as a couple 3 year olds "hovering over" your pup. Lots of dogs don't feel comfortable with being hovered over. And lots of pups start to assert their likes and dislikes as they enter adolescence, which your pup is. On the one hand, I want my dogs to be pretty bomb proof around kids. On the other hand, I wouldn't be crazy about someone two or three times my height looming over me, so I'm willing to accept that my dogs may not like it either, and do my best to protect them from that situation. It certainly won't hurt to work on teaching your dog to accept you and others approaching him when he is eating. That's always a good thing. But that may not be the real reason your dog is snapping at your niece. To the extent that she's willing to interact with your pup, teach your niece to get down on the dog's level, to keep her hands down low, and to not run away from him. And you need to recognize that 3 year olds are 3 year olds, and that she's not going to behave perfectly. So you need to supervise all interactions, and safely confine your pup when you can't supervise.

 

Which brings me to point number two. You say that your pup is now not allowed outside unsupervised unless he is kenneled or on a tie out. This needs to continue. Forever. Besides dangers like your dog wandering off and being hit by a car or shot by a neighbor who thinks (perhaps correctly) that your dog is a threat to their animals, recall that what you think triggered the first snap at your niece was that you pup was over at your brother's "eating some grease or something". The next time that something might be some antifreeze that got spilled. Or a chocolate bar that got dropped. Or some glass shards mixed in with the jar of jam that got dropped. Or some Round-Up that your brother sprayed on some pesky weeds. It's hard enough for dog owners to remain ever mindful of what kinds of things that end up on the ground might be harmful to our own pets. Your brother isn't going to being thinking about your dog's well being every time something lands on the ground on his property. So your dog stays on your property unless you are supervising. Always and forever.

 

It certainly sounds like you are trying your best to have a safe well-behaved dog, and that you are open to seeking advice from others. Keep us posted on your progress, and let us know what you learn when your puppy class starts. Assuming you have a good instructor, being able to directly observe your dog will enable her to give you more specific insight and advice.

[SutterBC25]

The food guarding advice I've gotten here is not going to help the issue, I don't believe. He is perfectly fine with being approached while eating out of his dish, with food being dropped into it, with trading up, etc. I WILL continue to work on these things, of course, but I don't believe it is going to help the bigger issue. :/

The only times he guards anything with me or my sister is when he has his Kong toy, or usually something he shouldn't have and we're trying to get it away. In these instances we use the trading up method and he always relinquishes what he has for the better item (and gets the other one back if it's his Kong toy, or something safe.)

As for my dog being allowed to wander the yard: It is a huge lot, about 4 acres. My brother is dog savvy, he's had dogs before. He knows not to let any dog around anything dangerous, but we are planning on putting in an in-ground fence until we can get an actual fence built (and then probably use them in conjunction to prevent digging out if necessary.) Absolutely until then he isn't going to be allowed outside off-leash/out of his kennel unless supervised.

So far he's been used to having the freedom to roam (and he never went out front, mostly stayed in our backyard) in and out of his puppy door as he pleased. Once we have a fence up, he will be able to do this again, but more securely and without constant supervision.

[GentleLake]

Resource guarding is resource guarding. Period. The resources may vary, but the principle's the same and it's handled the same way. You and as many other people as you can enlist to help just need to practice with everything he picks up (or licks on the ground) so that he understands that anyone can take anything away from him without its being something to get upset about. I'd also start teaching him "leave it" ASAP.

 

The other things Hooper said are important to hear as well. If your brother's so dog savvy, why was there grease or something similar on the ground to begin with? I know accidents happen, especially when there are young kids around, but allowing a dog, especially a puppy, free roam is an accident waiting to happen. Glad to hear you're dealing with that.

 

I also meant to comment on the kids' behaviors as something that may have contributed. Kids running and squealing can trigger nipping. It's why a whole lot of border collies (and other dogs) end up in shelters and rescues. The looming can be a big deal for many dogs. Your pup may be entering a fear period that makes it more so. This was likely not completely unprovoked. I'm sure the kids did something that your pup didn't like and it would be helpful if you could figure out what it was.

 

You're getting the same advice -- to manage the situation to prevent repeats and to how to work with it -- over and over. For now I'd keep him away from the younger kids, though it would be useful to enlist some older kids who won't be so easily intimidated by puppy nips, and keep practicing the trading up with everyone you can get to help you.

 

And be patient. Rome wasn't built in a day.

[SutterBC25]

I don't know why my brother dumps food waste outside instead of disposing of it properly. I wish he wouldn't do it, but he makes his own choices. Can't help anything there, except from keeping my dog away from it.

I've grown up with dogs allowed to roam our property freely, dogs who respected their boundaries and never roamed, and were never put in dangerous situations. I wanted to instill that in our pup, and he's been great about it. I knew that as soon as he started to reach sexual maturity, he'd have to be limited as I wouldn't want his nose getting the better of him and wandering too far. He is allowed off leash with supervision, and the SECOND he wanders off property lines, he is immediately called back into our property, and leashed.

 

I think his issue with the kids stems from them running up to him in his kennel, and yes, when they run/play/shriek, it excites him and he wants to chase/jump/etc. We tell the kids if they run it'll make him want to chase them. We have him sit/lay down to prevent chasing/jumping.

He is VERY stubborn, and chooses when and when not to listen to our commands, regardless of whether or not we have treats/clicker to praise. It's very frustrating because no matter how much we work with him, he still "does what he wants". I'm starting to think maybe he's not purebred BC because he's so stubborn, but I know it's probably because he's only still a puppy.

 

We are going to do our very best with getting multiple people to help assist us in the resource guarding, and I know it's important to try and get little kids to feed him, but I don't feel comfortable with him being around them and food being in the combination.

[GentleLake]

Like I said, don't let little kids around him until he's doing better.

 

If your brother's throwing food waste outside, he's not only not very dog savvy, he's inviting trouble. It will attract other animals and that can cause all kinds of problems.

 

Your puppy's not stubborn. He hasn't learned yet that he's expected to listen to you every time. Part of that's his age. I wouldn't expect any puppy of any breed to be fully and consistently trained by 6 months of age. There may be a few out there, but they're very few and far between. Again, put it in perspective. How many 7-8 year olds do you know who are perfectly well behaved all the time? I remember some nieces and a nephew who were, but they lived in mortal fear of their mother's descending upon them with the wrath of god if they stepped out of line. They weren't angels; they were scared stiff. Not a good way for children or dogs to live.

 

When older dogs, at least dogs of a highly biddable breed like border collies, don't listen all the time it's usually trainer error. "Stubborn" is a (poor) excuse for incomplete training. Whoever's trained them hasn't proofed the behavior and/or been inconsistent with follow through. There really aren't a whole lot of stubborn border collies, but there are many who are inadequately trained.

[gcv-border]

Yep ^^^^ to Gentle Lake's post.

 

One suggestion about trying to work your pup with kids: Start with a formal training session where your pup is on a leash - to prevent him from running and playing/chasing the kids. Let the kids - only if they agree to be quiet and listen to your directions - help by standing a good distance away and throwing really yummy treats on the ground in front of your pup. As he relaxes and is happy with the treats coming toward him, they can move closer to him and throw more treats on the ground. Continue gradually closing the gap depending on your pups behavior. It may take a few sessions or it might take a month or more for him to allow the kids close enough to take treats from their hands. Other training can proceed from there.

[SutterBC25]

Well, I don't have to explain about my brother's experience with dogs. He is not throwing ALL food waste outside. And I'm sure he does realize throwing anything out can attract other animals. Again, not my problem.

 

Re: kids feeding him treats, see post #4.

I keep repeating myself here, so I'll let the thread die now, and work on the issue with the advice given.

Thanks!

[GentleLake]

I don't think you're hearing what I said about kids.

 

NO LITTLE KIDS, but try to get some older kids to help.

 

I'm done repeating myself too.

[Gloria Atwater]

He is perfectly fine with us messing with his food bowl, putting stuff in it, and does great with trading up. This particular issue seems to be stemming from food + puppy + little kids. Perhaps it's the little kids that are the bad part of the equation? He was fine with my niece before the new dog, though. So I don't know what's gotten into him.

 

I took him over on harness/leash last night to have my niece and her cousin (same age) give him treats and he was perfectly fine up until he was laying down on the ground with them hovering over him petting him, and I gave him a treat for being so good. Then he turned to snap at my niece's cousin. I immediately scolded him for the behaviour and pulled him away.

 

 

Toddlers and dogs are not a good mix, especially for dogs at that age when they are both experimenting with boundaries and possibly having some fear/anxiety issues. If this is your first border collie, you should know that children can be particular triggers for unwanted behaviors. Their running, shrieking and generally unpredictable behaviors naturally excite a response, as you've already said your pup does. And I can tell you that any of my border collies would freak at being hovered over by 3 year olds. Remember - a toddler is not a "normal" human. They are erratic, unpredictable and some dogs can't do well with that.

 

And also remember that a border collie is bred to respond to movement and sound, which can make them hyper-sensitive to stimuli like the behavior of children.

 

For now and maybe for some time, I agree with your prospect of not allowing him any unsupervised time around the children and no treats unless you are working with the children with him. If there's a way to keep them away from his kennel, I'd recommend that, too. As much as you like giving your dogs the freedom of the family property, a border collie may not be the right dog for that, with small children in the mix.

 

By an in-ground fence, I presume you mean an electric one with a collar for the dog, but be aware that those don't keep anything out, they only keep the dog in, and only if they chose to respect that boundary rather than taking the jolt and busting through it. (After which they can't get back in.)

 

Best of luck.

 

~ Gloria

[SutterBC25]

Thank you for the information Gloria.

We decided not to go with an in-ground fence, and instead do actual fencing. Starting to prepare tomorrow, so I'm pretty excited about that!

This evening we had my niece throwing treats to Sutter from a safe distance. He couldn't get to her. He was barking/crying when she first came over (we had a fire going making s'mores) and there was no food involved. I think maybe he's just associated the one instance of her coming up on him while eating, and now when he sees her, he barks, etc.

We aren't going to push either of them, and just take our time with consistent work and I truly hope things will improve.

[SutterBC25]

Gentle Lake - no reason to be rude.
I DID understand what you said about no little kids. Unfortunately I don't have any older kids in my family that live close by, and don't want random kids in public approaching him.

 

I didn't say I was *done* repeating myself, only that I keep repeating myself.

[GentleLake]

I'm sorry if I came across as rude. I didn't mean to. But I felt like I was hitting my head against a wall repeating the same things.

[SutterBC25]

I'm starting to think that my pup's issues aren't entirely food related. He has had a few instances where he will bark/growl at my niece (she is always a safe distance away and he is controlled) and food is not involved. Could he be jealous of her in general (getting more attention than him, etc.)

 

She doesn't want to help us anymore with giving him treats. She's thrown his toys for him a few times, but for the most part all she does is scream bloody murder at the sight of him. We keep telling her screaming/running is not helping, but she's 3yo. She doesn't understand fully, and I get that.

 

Good news is, him being tied outside has helped his leash skills a bit! He responds a lot better to slight pressure on the leash if he's pulling. Still needs to work on his heel, but we'll get there.

And I have a completely irrelevant question, but I didn't want to make a new thread for it:

How should I go about letting others (family, mostly) know that I don't want them correcting my dog and to leave it up to me? My stepdad held Sutter's mouth shut yesterday because he was digging a hole. (ETA: We are working on the "Leave It" command for situations like this.) He was tied to a tree in the shade and my stepdad got over to him before I could. Stepdad is very verbally aggressive/rude and can't be reasoned with, so I didn't say anything. :/

 

My only preventative measure so far is of course to get to my dog first, and keep him at my side at all times when not tied out. I do want to explain WHY only my sister or I should be giving him corrections though, especially because I don't think holding his mouth shut is a proper correction for digging.

[GentleLake]

I doubt very much it's jealousy. Based on what you've said before and now this, I suspect that your pup's uncomfortable with your niece, either because she's a typical 3 year old and to his mind unpredictable an maybe more than a little scary as a result (many dogs and especially many border collies react to toddlers this way - border collies are often surrendered because they're not meshing well with children). Coupled with what he sees as unpleasant prior experiences around children (justified or not, he's been scolded around them) and her screaming when she sees him, he's probably not feeling too safe around her and he's asking her in the only way he knows how to keep her distance.

 

I'd keep him well away from her until you've been able to do some work with him and have him to a point that he can react more positively, and if he can't get to that place, maybe he'll just have to be kept away from kids forever.

 

As for not wanting other people to correct him, I don't see any way around that other than simply to tell them and to explain why. You're right in thinking that your stepfather's way of disciplining your puppy is likely to make things worse. You've got to be your dog's advocate and to make sure other people abide by your rules.

[SutterBC25]

Thanks GentleLake.

Aside from the resource guarding, what specifically do you suggest I work with him on kid-wise?

He was fine with her last night after we got home. She came over to my house and Sutter was laying down and my niece was on the other side of me. He wasn't paying her any attention and she was standing there asking me repeatedly to pick her up and put her on the other side of the fence separating our living room. I was trying to explain to her that he was being calm, and he wasn't doing anything, and to just calm down. She just kept freaking out so I put her on the other side of the fence.

He was neutered on Friday so I'm hoping that will mellow him out a little bit. Maybe less hormones raging through his body will be beneficial, but only time and consistent work will tell.

As for my step-dad, he did the same thing again today AFTER egging my dog on to get wacked by my cat, who wanted nothing to do with him. My step-dad held his mouth shut again and pinned him down and Sutter was crying. I DID say something this time, but was met with "Well, you weren't doing anything." Well, yes, I *was* trying to get my dog away and didn't want him barking at the cat, when he stepped in front of me and grabbed my dog. It ended up with me being livid for the rest of the afternoon and trying to tell my mom that he canNOT do that, and we will not come to visit them anymore if he doesn't get it. That we're working on fear/aggression issues with him, and that isn't helping. She didn't care and just told me to leave then. (We didn't.)

Very frustrated about that, needless to say. But it's been a stressful week anyway.

[mum24dog]

Your stepfather sounds a charming fellow. If you must visit them why do you have to take your dog with you? One day he will bite your stepfather and that won't end well.

[GentleLake]

Aside from the resource guarding, what specifically do you suggest I work with him on kid-wise?

 

Get Control Unleashed (preferably the puppy version) and work on Look at That. . . . from a distance. In the meantime, do some searches here and on line for how to do it. It's been discussed in detail in other threads.

 

As for your stepfather, you need to tell him in no uncertain terms that he's not to interact with your puppy at all. If he won't do that, you need to keep your puppy away, far away, from him. You're just asking for more problems with your pup if he continues to treat him like that.

[moosikins]

We don't allow anyone to correct our dog or even give her commands.

[Beach BCs]

Your dog is going to bite your stepfather. You're going to have to tell him again and again that he can not correct your dog. Every time this man 'corrects' him, he's creating or making a problem worse. Don't leave the dog alone with him at all. If you must go over there to visit, leave your pup at home. I know you're in a tough spot and I do sympathize with you.

 

I'm a very nonconfrontational type of person...until it comes to my dogs.