Obedience -- class or independent study?

[TxMom]

So, that is something for the OP to take into account. Do you do your best work on your own, or do you tend to work better when you have a structure outside of yourself to work through?

 

Definitely a good point. For projects, I do best with a deadline. But for daily routine stuff, I do pretty well on my own. I'm a homeschooling mom -- I have no one looking over my shoulder to see if I get everything done that I should every day. I have to sit down before each school year and figure out our goals, break it down into smaller increments, and then make sure it happens. My husband offers input, and I have people I talk to for advice and feedback, but ultimately it's my job. Our state doesn't have specific guidelines about what we have to do, so it really is on me to have a plan and make it happen. And truthfully, we have good days and bad days. Some days the plan doesn't really come through. There's been a lot of realizing that something doesn't work for my kids and figuring out what to do instead. But so far, whenever I step back and look, we're about where we should be so we keep on moving along. I imagine training the dog will be similar -- big goals broken into smaller goals broken into even smaller goals, and it takes a little work each day to get there. Some days will be good and some days we'll get nowhere, and when we have a lot of the latter we'll back up and try something different. Motivation-wise, I think I'd be ok. My bigger concern is whether my head knowledge will translate into effective training ability and whether or not the class environment is critical.

[haiku]

I like classes but I don't do obedience classes generally. I've done two in the past and found them pretty worthless. Around here I'm not impressed with the pet obedience class options. So I do agility classes and start there. We work at petsmart, petco, parks, etc. We cover a lot in the agility class that will be useful for obedience training on my own too.

 

I stood and watched a 'training' class for intermidiate at Pets Mart, I was not impressed at all. From what the brouchure said, all dogs from beginners class should know how to sit, lay down and come when called. Half the dogs in this intermediate class couldn't sit or lay down on command let alone hold the position.

 

I would look for a dog training school, not a pet store. I found three in my local area that are run by volunteers that have either judged or actually shown dogs, so they have a fairly knowledable array of minds that can help just about anyone. Most classes run about 10 weeks long and cost $75, something I was much more willing to pay than some of the other border and train places that want upwards of $400-$900 for a month or two.

 

The classes at the dog training club I go to are fairly small, no more than 5-9 dogs depending on the instructors preference, and their length of time gives you enough time to learn everything they have crammed into the course. It has so far been a great foundation for my girl with sit, down, stays on both, stand from both the sit and the down, heel work, focused attention, recalls, stay with distance and socialization in general. Its amazing how much my girl goes from sweet angel to distracted butterfly while we are at school, she wants to just go greet everyone. Good learning experiences at an affordable cost.

[Laurelin]

Just to clarify I don't take classes at Petsmart or Petco, I just practice with my dog by myself there. It's a nice environment for a lot of distractions!

[GentleLake]

^^ Ditto.

[TxMom]

An update -- I contacted the trainer and I'm welcome to go observe classes at various levels, so I might even go tonight to catch the first night of her newest level-one class. I'm thinking since I've got some time on my hands before we're actually getting the dog, I might even try to time it so I can observe members of this particular group at each level and see how the dogs and handlers are progressing.

 

She explained she charges the way she does because it makes accounts simpler and because she enjoys working with students over a longer term. Makes sense, and ultimately I'd like to have a trainer who's in it with us for the long haul. I just have to decide whether or not I'm willing to commit to this particular trainer, I guess.

 

Any tips if I go out to observe tonight?

[Maralynn]

Look for rapport with her and her dogs and her and the students. See if the people and dogs look like they're enjoying it overall. Ask if you can stop back toward the end of this class to see what progress has been made.

[GentleLake]

I'd be looking for dogs and owners who are enjoying the class rather than being stressed by it.

 

A good trainer explains things well to her or his students and has alternatives to try if a dog (or the handler) doesn't respond well to a particular exercise. Not all people and dogs learn the same ways, so when either one isn't getting something, the trainer should be able to suggest some different ways to try it. A once size fits all approach just isn't going to work for everyone.

 

And I'd be looking for training methods that mesh with my own philosophy. Although I understand that there can be times and situations that might require some corrections, I'd want a trainer who focuses on reward based training with little or not aversives or punishment.

 

I need to feel good about whomever I'm working with. If I don't -- even if it's nothing I can articulate -- I'll move on.

[Tess's Girl]

As others have said I can train my dogs on my own but I enjoy taking them to classes. It's something different, it lets us work with different people and dogs in different settings.

 

I would definitely observe multiple classes before you commit such a long term arrangement. I like your idea of observing the same dogs and handlers over the course of a few classes.

 

As far as pet store training goes I've found it's really regional. My local PetsMart has a fantastic head trainer and the classes are great. I also like pet store for the various distractions they offer. So if you end up deciding to look for a short 6 week class I would recommend hitting up a few of your local pet stores that offer them and observing a couple of classes.

[GentleLake]

Do the training classes at pet stores offer any more distractions than other classes?

 

The only pet stores here that have classes are Petsmart and PetCo. Both have classes in areas that are walled off from the rest of the store, so the dogs can't see anything beyond it. I'm guessing they can hear other things going on on the store, but they can't see it, so I don't see it as any advantage over a class held in a training facility.

 

I do like pet stores for practicing on my own though.

[borasaurus]

I took a couple obedience lessons with Kieran and I didn't care for them much. I was only in it because it was a prerequisite to take the agility lessons offered at the same venue. It wasn't that I disliked the trainer - it's something I can't really explain. I think it might have been because the lessons were more commercialized. I don't know how other classes are, but we'd spend like two minutes on a certain command and then move on to the next one. And yet somehow we were simultaneously moving at the pace of the slowest dog. The classes are useless if you don't reinforce it at home anyway.

 

Perhaps the main issue might have been that Kieran was incorrectly placed into the first level, when he easily should have been in the second. By the time we started the obedience lessons, Kieran already knew most if not all of the commands and reliably, to boot (all self-taught). We stopped going after the trainer moved him into the second class (two sessions later - she said it should have been after the first), so I'm probably not the best person to answer.

 

However, for training with distractions, I'm with Laurelin - agility has been great and much more fun for the two of us. The basic obedience stuff I can teach Kieran on my own. I guess it just depends on how confident you are in your training skills and how your dog responds to you. Kieran is my first dog and we're doing fine.

[Tess's Girl]

Yes, the classes at my local Petsmart offer more distractions and socialization opportunities than many of the classes put on by local independent trainers. There is a designated training area but typically only the first part of the class takes place there and the rest of the class takes place out and about in the store.

 

Like I said, not all big box store training is the same, it really depends on the region and the store. I always think it's worth it to go check out one or two classes anywhere you are thinking about attending.

[TxMom]

I made it out to watch the class last night. Being the first, it was pretty basic, but it was good to hear her go through all the foundational/introductory stuff. What she said lines up pretty well with my reading and thinking on how we'd approach training. Nothing came up that concerned me. It seemed to be a pretty varied class -- 10 weeks up to a year or more, several breeds, some dogs/owners with some training already down and others without a clue. One owner was going through the class with a fourth dog, which seems promising: she must think it's worth it even if she already knows it all. I chatted a little with the trainer afterward and clarified a few things -- if I were enrolled in lessons it would be ok for me to bring the kids with me to use the field during off hours as long as they weren't hanging off of the equipment or anything, and if I wanted to bring my oldest with me to classes that would likely be ok (the official age limit is 8 and he'll be 7, but she's more concerned about behavior than age). I'm not sure if I'd do that or not, but it's nice to know I'd have the option. If I can get him trained to help me train the dog, that could be helpful. I did like the class environment, and I could see where that would be valuable and significantly different from what I can provide at home or even around the neighborhood. Even having the field to practice in would be nice.

 

I'm planning to contact her again in a couple of months to see about watching one of her more advanced classes (theory being that this batch of students will be there by then). I noticed some of the owners had some bad habits and I'd like to see if those are gone or less noticeable after a couple of months of work. For example, one would tell her dog, "sit sit sit sit sit sit sit sit sit sit good dog!" even while the instructor was explaining to the class that you shouldn't repeat commands. I can understand the instructor not jumping on (or even seeing/hearing) every mistake in the first class, but I'd like to see that those things improve as she has more time to work with the students. After all, one of the reasons I'd work with an instructor would be to have someone who will see those things and correct me when I don't realize I'm doing them. She handed out a booklet by Patricia McConnell, a pretty detailed homework sheet, and invited students to call or e-mail if they run into problems and need some help troubleshooting.

 

Oh, one minor negative -- pretty sure I picked up several chigger bites while I was out there. Note to self: bug spray will be my friend!

[gcv-border]

It sounds like a decent class, but is she the only trainer? How many students? I would like to see a student:teacher ratio of about 1:3 or 1:4 - particularly in beginning classes.

 

Having said that, you have to pick the trade-offs you are willing to tolerate. Nothing is perfect.

[TxMom]

The website says the class limit is 8; there were 6 last night. She had her sister there with her, but the sister seemed to just have a fetch-and-carry role. I did notice that some things seemed to be slipping by because there were so many dogs/owners for her to pay attention to, but I wasn't sure if that was critical or if it was more a matter of not trying to fix every single thing in the first lesson (for example, the repeated commands). I was sitting closer to some of the lower-maintenance dogs (older, with experienced owners, and/or already started on some basics) while she was more often near the other side of the class with a couple of young and very untrained pups, so that may also have affected what I saw.

 

On the other hand, I expect I'd be one of the lower-maintenance students (not because of me, but because we won't be getting a puppy and odds are good there will already be some basic training from the foster home), so that's probably what I should be looking at. I'm also planning to visit another instructor or two if I can, if for no other reason than to have a basis for comparison. I was wondering if that's a normal ratio or not, because it did seem a little high. Again, though, I'd like to see where her students are in a couple of months before I get too critical.

[Cass C]

My agility trainer used to train up to 6 dogs/class, but she also uses crates so each student/dog gets one on one time with the instructor. This was great especially when she was explaining a new behavior, so there was not dogs running all over the place or being distracting