Obedience -- class or independent study?

[TxMom]

Continuing to do research prior to getting a dog in the next 4 to 8 months, and I've come up with a question I'd appreciate some thoughts on. Background: we'll be adopting an adult from a rescue, suburban home, three kids (7, 5 and 3), plan to train to keep the dog occupied but I don't have any specific ambitions beyond having a happy, well-trained dog I enjoy working with. That said...

 

What's the advantage of taking an in-depth obedience class vs. doing it independently following something like Sue Ailsby's training levels referenced in the "training protocol ideas" thread in this forum (http://sue-eh.ca/page24/page26/page10/)? Would you recommend one approach over the other? If it makes any difference, the obedience class I've been looking at (pending meeting the trainer and observing a class) is outlined here: http://www.waggin-tails.com/obedience/course_outline.html To me it looks like a very thorough class, and her credentials (elsewhere on the website) look solid. She charges $400 up front for the 5-month course, and we can budget for that and commit to it, but I'm wondering if it's really worth it or if we could do just as well on our own until we're interested in a specific sport or other more specialized training.

 

Thanks for the advice -- I appreciate it!

[Cass C]

Have you trained dogs in the past? The benefit of being in a class is having someone to let you know when you are doing something wrong without realizing it or training a bad habit. It also gives your dog a chance to be around other dogs and new people in a controlled setting. I would choose a class over training on my own for the simple reason I like having someone to help me when I'm struggling in training.

 

However if you have trained many well behaved dogs in the recent past you can always try on your own and go to a trainer only if you decide you need one.

[TxMom]

This will be my first dog as an adult, which is one reason the current plan is to go with a trainer. For whatever it may be worth, I had a Border Collie when I was growing up (as a kid I took him to agility lessons) and I was also responsible for most of the training with our horses. Lots of general animal experience for most of my life, but it's been a while. I've been doing a lot of reading (these forums, books recommended on the forums, websites, etc.) and YouTube-ing, but that only goes so far.

[alligande]

I would recommend a training class to start, I self trained my first dog because there was no space available in a class for the first couple of months I had her, but I know I made lots of mistakes and it took us much longer than it should.

Personally I would not sign up to a program that long, you might not like the instructors, after the first block you might want to try something different, or even feel comfortable starting home-schooling.

Even if you take classes you can still follow along something like the training levels as a home project, a class should give you the tools on how to teach your dog to learn.

[mum24dog]

I went to classes with my first dog as an adult. I had trained dogs before but I needed to be educated in the way methods and approaches had moved on and I learned a lot. I thought I knew what I needed to know but I didn't.

I'm on my 7th dog now and don't go to classes, which are, after all, an artificial environment. Training in real life is more useful.

[gcv-border]

I have many of the same thoughts as above. I wouldn't sign up for a class that long. Can you find a shorter class (therefore less money)? I am also one that likes to have eyes on me and my dog occasionally to pick up any mistakes and/or suggest improvements to my current training. Because I live in a rural setting, I used puppy and beginning obedience classes as a way to work in a distracting environment - other people and other dogs that I don't usually encounter in everyday life. I don't see why you can't train in a class and train at home using online courses.

 

Added thought: unless you are involved in dog training in everyday life, an occasional class (either locally or on-line) usually adds some new techniques to your repertoire and keeps you more up-to-date with training techniques and ideas.

[Gideon's girl]

I was a professional obedience instructor, so could easily completely train my dogs on my own, but I still like to get them to a class or 2 just because it is a different atmosphere than anything else they do. It's the only place we go where my dog is working around more than just one or two other dogs and, training wise, it is most like their experience in the vet waiting room, minus the diseases.

[Root Beer]

Have you spoken to the folks at this facility? Is there some way you could go through the first segment, at a pro-rated price - to try it out?

 

I would definitely recommend a class if you haven't trained before, but going into any new facility, I would talk to the owner/director, observe a few classes, and definitely figure out if what they have to offer is what I am looking for.

 

Based on what I see on that site, it is one I would be interested in checking out, but I would definitely want to get a closer look before making any commitment.

[simba]

One of the advantages of a class is that you work around other dogs. A lot of dogs have the impression that whenever they see the other dog they should go and try to sniff it, not heed their owner, etc. and some dogs only really see other dogs when they're let off and allowed to go play like maniacs with each other. Teaching your dog, that, yes, there are other dogs, but you need to do something other than strain at the lead, has to be a good thing.

[Blackdawgs]

Actually, a class AND independent study are best.

 

The series of classes is an interesting idea. From my discussions with local trainers, attrition as dogs go thru the levels is a big problem. Having said this, I would want to observe all levels of classes and know that there is an out if a situation beyond your control should force you to drop out.

[Bordercentrics]

I once did the independent training with a dog because I knew what I was doing training wise. I will NEVER do that again. The dog needs the experience of being in a class around other dogs and people. The dog I trained independently was never good with other dogs and in new situations. I have also learned that we all do funny things with our body language that we are not even conscious of, and it always affects the dog. It takes an observer to see these things and tell us what to practice!

 

Kathy Robbins

[CptJack]

I like classes.

If all you're concerned about is a good pet who doesn't destroy your house and knows the basics, you can probably manage with good socialization, youtube and reading. I still prefer classes because it's good to have another set of eyes, people to brainstorm with, and it's a good experience all around, but you can probably achieve what you want.

 

If you want more than a nicely behaved pet who knows the basics and some cute tricks, you absolutely need the classes.

[GentleLake]

I like classes for the reasons mentioned, but when I wasn't finding a class I liked I trained the dog who became a therapy dog myself. You can still achieve the distractions and exposure to other dogs and people if you plan. Training at a pet store or in a park, for instance, can provide both.

[JohnLloydJones]

Classes depend of the instructor; if you find a good instructor, go for it. Alas, not all instructors are good and many are downright bad. Training on you own requires more effort; there's some good resources out there on the Internet, but you still have to put in a lot of effort. You also need to do some of your training out in the real world. A "down" is not a down until it's solid even when there's a swirl of dogs around. You recall isn't worth a jot until it works when there's tons of distractions.

[mum24dog]

I have plenty of opportunity to train my dogs around others without going to classes. A couple of weeks ago I was at an agility show at a former racecourse. The track was the exercise area and ran alongside a couple of the rings. My youngster and I were training amongst all the dogs running about and next to those competing.

 

I trained him not to approach other dogs without permission in real life.

[Maralynn]

I haven't done formal classes with my youngster but I had a training plan and places to train with him. And no really good options for classes that worked with my schedule. If I hadn't had places to train/people to train with then I would have figured out how to make classes work.

 

The link looks pretty good. And if you're nearby and would take advantage of the field even better. But I'd really only want to sign up for/pay for one class at a time. Just to make sure you mesh well the instructor and environment before paying that much money.

[Shetlander]

I have trained dogs for over 40 years and used to be an assistant instructor in obedience as well as an agility instructor. I still like to take my youngster or new dog at least through a basic obedience course. It offers all kinds of distractions and is fun for the dog and me. The bulk of training is on my own in real life situations and refreshers as needed if I see a behavior deteriorating. You do want to find a class with methods you are comfortable using and a safe environment (dogs under control -- I have seen some very aggressive dogs over the years). Whatever you choose, remember training is a journey as much as a destination.

[Root Beer]

It can depend a lot on you, as well. I am perfectly capable of training my dogs to do anything I want them to do. I need very little help until I get up to an advanced level on most behaviors.

 

But . . . I lack discipline if left on my own. I do much better with the structure of a class to keep me on target with my training. Otherwise, I tend to flop from working one thing to another to another and I end up with a lot of partially trained skills.

 

So, I favor classes when I have access to appropriate ones.

[ourwully]

I took Juno to two puppy courses at $250 each time. The first instructor was okay, the second was the owner and very good. After the second course I could see big improvements in Juno's overall behaviour etc but she was still very reactive and her loose leash walking was still poor. I didn't sign up for a third course partly because of the cost but mostly because I felt Juno was not mature enough to get a lot out of another course. Although I didn't go to another course I read books, went on utube, and continued to work with her every day. When she hit a year old she seemed to have a jump in maturity and we made a lot of progress and overall things were much better. Juno is a year and a half now and we are going through Sue Ailsbury's training levels and we are just finishing level four. This protocol has really been good but as others have said in this thread I am sure I am doing all kinds of things wrong. I am also sure an instructor to answer questions and to watch Juno and I together would certainly improve things.

[TxMom]

What y'all are saying sounds a lot like what I've been thinking. I think there's value in having someone who can observe me and troubleshoot what I'm doing, the other-dogs-and-people factor seems worth something, etc. I think the trainer and the program look great on paper. But it is a really big up-front commitment, especially with a trainer I haven't worked with to know how I like her.

 

I've looked (websites and online reviews) at a number of local trainers, and this is the one that stood out to me. A lot are places where you leave your dog for the day and they do the training; not what I want. Several more do private lessons in your home, which doesn't get the distracting class environment. A few just don't look particularly impressive (this includes the Petsmart/Petco classes, although I understand those may vary by location). A lot would be hard to get to; traffic in this area is nuts. Of the ones that look good, this one I shared has the most thorough curriculum, is the closest to me, offers class times that work with my schedule, and the prices are about equal (although most charge for a month or six weeks at a time). As Maralyn pointed out, I'd get access to the practice field when there are no classes and that would be a perk because, yes, I'd be close enough to take advantage of it.

 

I guess I can try talking to the trainer to see if she'd consider allowing us to pay by level or monthly or something, and also if I can watch a few classes at different levels to see if I like what I see. I'm just struggling a little with paying $400 and being committed to something specific for five months (and it could be longer, because classes canceled due to bad weather are added on to the end).

 

To clarify a little on my training goals, I don't have specific ambitions (I'm not committed to agility or rally or flyball or nosework or anything) but I do want to continually be doing some sort of training, whether in a class or on our own. I'd like to start with the things that will make the dog a well-mannered pet that doesn't destroy the house or make a nuisance of himself. After that, I figured we'd try to find something (or things) we both enjoy. If it's just lots of goofy tricks, that's fine. I just want to be doing something together. If we do get into a sport, life right now is not conducive to being seriously competitive. We could hit up a few trials that come near us, but between the kids and the budget, I won't be doing any extensive traveling. I'd be happy choosing a sport and working hard to get good at it for the sake of the challenge, but I'm not worried about titles or anything. I just want to be doing stuff.

[mum24dog]

It can depend a lot on you, as well. I am perfectly capable of training my dogs to do anything I want them to do. I need very little help until I get up to an advanced level on most behaviors.

 

But . . . I lack discipline if left on my own. I do much better with the structure of a class to keep me on target with my training. Otherwise, I tend to flop from working one thing to another to another and I end up with a lot of partially trained skills.

 

So, I favor classes when I have access to appropriate ones.

 

I am just about motivated enough to train to competitive obedience level although there may be times I need a second pair of eyes. I don't need the approval of an instructor.

 

However, when I start training Risk seriously for agility (my daughter has been doing most of the foundation work) I plan to take some 1-1 lessons as it has been so long since I started a dog from scratch and I don't want to fall back on old fashioned habits. I'm lazy and I need a boot up the backside. I still don't like communal classes.

[Root Beer]

I am just about motivated enough to train to competitive obedience level although there may be times I need a second pair of eyes. I don't need the approval of an instructor.

 

 

I don't need approval - I benefit from the structure. I am motivated by "I'm working on this to take to class next week". I couldn't care less if the instructor approves.

 

I clean best when guests are coming over. I grade best when the deadline for their entry is approaching. I do my best training when I am taking my work into some structured setting each week.

 

So, that is something for the OP to take into account. Do you do your best work on your own, or do you tend to work better when you have a structure outside of yourself to work through?

[mum24dog]

You didn't say anything to make me think that you needed approval but lot of people do work best when they are trying to impress teacher.

[Root Beer]

I wish more of my own students had that modus operandi!!

[Laurelin]

I like classes but I don't do obedience classes generally. I've done two in the past and found them pretty worthless. Around here I'm not impressed with the pet obedience class options. So I do agility classes and start there. We work at petsmart, petco, parks, etc. We cover a lot in the agility class that will be useful for obedience training on my own too.