Search and Rescue experience?

[smiles604]

Hi all,

 

I think there at least a couple posters here who may have experience with SAR, but I wasn't able to come up with much information/old threads when I tried searching. I'm thinking about doing SAR with my pup, and I'd love any general thoughts about doing SAR with your dog. How much of a time commitment is it? How long until a dog is ready to participate in missions? Anything else I should know?

 

Also, the SAR group in my area is having an informational meeting for potential new members this week, which I am planning on going to. Are there any specific questions I should ask/things I should look out for? In general, are BCs successful at this work, or is it more challenging for them? (I feel like I see a lot of labs and german shepherds doing SAR, but not as many BCs - is this true, or just my limited experience?)

 

I appreciate any thoughts/information. Thank you!

 

 

[chene]

Maralynn is the one who you really want to talk to, but I'll give my side of it, which is probably quite a bit different than hers. I did SAR with my border collie pup for about two months. After that time I decided not to continue with it. Aed was not the problem. He was great at it, he loved it, and hide and seek is still one of his favourite games. The typical border collie drive is gold when it comes to SAR work. He was very good at it and there were a few border collies on the team. The time commitment was a 2-3 hour K9 SAR training once a week, plus a general SAR training once a month. Before we could be certified I would have had to get my GSAR certification, and honestly I don't remember exactly how long that course was. I know that between myself and Aed we probably wouldn't have been certified until he was 18 months-2 years old. I was okay with that.

 

Now, here's the problem I had: For the people I did SAR with, it was their life. Their friends were SAR friends, their jobs were similar jobs, their interests were dogs and SAR. Most of them were a good deal older than me. We seriously did not share any of the same interests. In addition to the weekly and monthly training there were tons of events like parades or promoting the team that everyone else always went to. . I was looking for a great activity to do with Aed and I was willing to be commited, but it would never have been as big a part of my life as it was for those people, and I was seriously uncomfortable with that. Maybe other teams are different, but that would be my main point. Make sure that you are willing to commit not just the time, but the emotion and the interest.

I really, really wish I could have done SAR with Aed. He loved it, I loved it, and it's a hugely important thing in the foresty mountain-y area where I live. But I just could not gel with the team.

[kingfisher7151]

I'm really curious about this too. I don't think I have the time and (espcially) money to get involved right now, but it's something I'd seriously love the do. Kind of morbid, but a 2 year old corpse was found a quarter mile away from the dog park a few months ago. Found alongside the trail and railroad tracks that I walk every week. I always wonder what could have been if someone had an HR dog along the trail, even if just off duty.

 

I'm curious to hear if there are some traits that people find desirable other than toy drive in S&R dogs. I always joked about Keeper as a pup because he had absolutely NO idea what his nose is for. But in the last months I've started the "find it" game to keep my sanity. I hide a teeny cat toy anywhere in the house (800 sq. ft. so not saying much) and wait for Keeper to find it. I always heard about the magic of a dog's nose, but sometimes it's seriously amazing. Then I started using different objects and couldn't believe how just one sniff and he'd remember that toy forever. Dogs are AMAZING.

 

ETA: Oh! And I'm really curious to hear from anyone involved about the emotional requirements of the job. Naturally I know of WAY more live find dogs than human remains dogs. I'm sure there's an emotional component to that, and I'd love to hear anyone's thoughts on the matter.

[Jumpin Boots]

My experience was quite similar to Chene's. I went through the training for about 4 months, while everyone was very welcoming and friendly, it is definitely a lifestyle activity. Although I suppose lots of activities change a persons lifestyle, like border collie owners who get bit by the herding bug and go buy a farm But I wasn't in the spot of tons of extra time, complete passion or financial resource to dive into the levels it seems you need to. I didn't notice any specific age group, I think it was pretty well spread across 20-50's and equal men vs women.

[Maralynn]

I've been involved with SAR for 8 years now. I trained/certified a wilderness airscent dog and am currently have 2 in training - all Border Collies The breed is great for SAR provided you have the right dog (true of any breed) and you're a Border Collie person. Labs are the most popular as they're generally the most "handler friendly" and the breed as a whole is not as sensitive.

 

Time commitment for me is 3-4 hrs for team training each week plus training on my own and extra team training every other month or so. There are also other basic certifications that I needed to get on my own -canine and human first aid, hazmat, map, NIMS. It generally takes 2 years for a new handler to train/certify their first dog. Some teams also have age restrictions for new dogs - if you start with a 5 y/o dog then by the time you are mission ready your dog will be 7 and have a much shorter working career than a dog started younger. My team had 3 pups start at the same time last year - GSD, Lab and my BC. Right now it looks like the Lab and BC will be ready to cert at the minimum age of 18 m/o. The GSD will probably B 2 before he certs. Part is due to the dog's nature and maturity but a bigger part is due to handler experience in training.

 

The point Chene raised about gelling with the team is a good one. SAR is a "professional hobby" of sorts. A long term commitment and self funded for the most part. Some people make it their life and it is generally harder for a young person who is getting established than an older person who is well established. And the SAR world becomes one of your main social groups. One of my team mates does FEMA USAR along with local. And does both live find and HR. He is training 2 days a week and every other weekend. There is no way that I could do all that. There's no way I could do all that right now. But my team just requires weekly trainings along with a few public events/ extra trainings so that works well for me. So do figure out what all the team requirements and expectations are.

 

As to the emotional requirements, if you cannot deal with the idea that your victim may have died, then don't do SAR. If being in the woods after dark is creepy, don't do SAR. I don't do HR work because I don't want to deal with finding decaying humans. That is one of my personal limitations. Especially since the HR people have gotten called out on some pretty gruesome stuff. But dog handlers usually do better emotionally than other first responders.

 

The other thing to be aware of is the politics of SAR. It's there just like in any other group. In my group it's generally not a big deal at all - small group, great people, in it for the right reasons. But it's present in son groups and new people are sometimes surprised by it.

 

All in all I find it really cool to be involved in. I love doing something with my dog that can help others and I totally love the fact that my dog and I are pretty equal partners as they bring a set of instincts and abilities that no human can match.

[GentleLake]

I have no personal experience, but a friend's recent experience confirms what others have said about making sure the personality of the group and its politics meshes with yours.

 

My friend was willing to put in the time and financial commitment and always willing to help out at training events. She gave up her most of her therapy work with her other dogs, and she & her husband were ready to purchase a new vehicle to dedicate to the pursuit. The dog, an English Shepherd, by all accounts was doing fabulously.

 

But the dog wasn't of a breed generally valued by this particular SAR group. They were mostly working GSDs (there is one certified Lab in the group), and related ones at that. They routinely made disparaging jokes about floppy eared dogs and eventually started crossing off (yes, literally erasing) my friend's dog from the roster at trainings. It's possible there was an element of jealousy involved, as the young ES was out performing their dogs on many occasions.

 

It became painfully obvious that no matter what commitments they were willing to make and how well the dog was going, they weren't going to be able to break into the clique, so after about 18 months of weekly and more training (sounded to me like many of their trainings were all day events), they finally gave up and left the group.

 

I would hope that this would be an isolated kind of thing, but oddly it got worse when their team joined up with a neighboring team for some trainings. (That's when the deliberate exclusions occurred.) And there's been enough mentioned here that it seems like it might be a rather generalized condition in the field.

 

I can understand the need to weed out people who aren't going to be committed, but to make it so very difficult for new people to participate just seems both petty and counterproductive. Maybe it's the only way to maintain the group's elitism, but it sounds like it might be something you should be prepared to encounter if you decide to pursue it.

[JohnC]

I was considering doing this also but decided it was too much of a commitment. I did read an interesting book about it: "Scent of the Missing" by Susannah Charleson. It's not a training book, but more of an inside look at the process and lifestyle. And it does seem to be a lifestyle. But I'm sure it's very rewarding if you have the time for it.

[Maralynn]

I wouldn't say it's generalized to SAR any more than any other dog activity, but anywhere there are people, there are egos. And well intentioned people usually don't expect to find them in a field that should be about helping others and professional commitment.

 

I was incredibly fortunate to find a team right off that was willing to work with the right type of people and a mentor who had loads of experience but whose interest is in the work, nit feeding an ego. He's kinda done it all in the SAR world but you wouldn't guess it to talk to him. I met another person last fall who was the same way - those people are amazing and I just like to watch them work and listen to them instruct. I've gotten to the point where I can pick out the egos really quick and steer clear of them.

 

So look for the people who have a quiet confidence about them. Look for the ones who have dogs you admire, and a bond with their dogs. Look for the ones who want to learn as much as they want to teach and take the lead.

 

And don't be afraid to check out a different team if there isn't a clear set of standards that us being adhered to.

[GentleLake]

How often are there options for joining a different team? Here where my friend and I are (upstate NY), it seems that there's just one team per county or region and that's your only option.

 

I do sincerely hope that most SAR groups aren't like the local ones here and that the OP will have a better experience than my friends did. I'm glad that your experience was more welcoming, Mara.

[Maralynn]

On the flip side of the coin, for every person who is gung ho about starting, maybe 1 in 5 ever come out to a training. For every 5 that comes out to training, 1 or 2 actually start in with regular training. For every 3-4 that start in with training, one will actually certify a dog. And this is on team that is willing to work with anyone willing to put the effort in.

 

So there is a legitimate jaded perspective. It's a cool thing and everyone has a dog who "uses it's nose all the time so it would be perfect!". Of course they can't get the dog to sit on command but that's beside the point...

[GentleLake]

I'm sure that's true, and very understandable. But that's why I mentioned that they'd put in lots of time and money for 18 months with a good dog before finally admitting to themselves that these folks just weren't going to let them be part of the clique. This wasn't someone who just thought it would be cool to train SAR for a while with an ill mannered dog. They were very serious about it.

 

OTOH, I can certainly understand a team's being reserved with newbies coming out until they've had a chance to assess them and their commitment. That makes sense, for all the reasons you mentioned.

[Maralynn]

How often are there options for joining a different team? Here where my friend and I are (upstate NY), it seems that there's just one team per county or region and that's your only option.

 

I do sincerely hope that most SAR groups aren't like the local ones here and that the OP will have a better experience than my friends did. I'm glad that your experience was more welcoming, Mara.

It all depends on the region. My group has no government affiliation. We are a regular 501c3 non profit.

 

You can always start a team but if the other one is who local LE is connected with then call outs may not happen. My current team actually split off of a different team soon after I joined (due to politics) but the dedicated people with the contacts all came to the new team.

 

Your friends could also look into training in a more specialized field like historic remains detection. A lot more room for independent handlers and an area most SAR teams don't cover

[Maralynn]

Fwiw, I'm Posting on my phone so it takes longer and new posts don't show up until after I post... Post #10 was not intended as a reply to post #9

[gcv-border]

Interesting discussion.

 

I have a friend who has been involved in SAR for about 5-6 years. The team also includes HRD dogs, in addition to airscent dogs. The group did break away about 3-4 years ago from a slightly larger group, but I don't know all the details.

 

It seems to be quite a varied group - with members as disparate as laborers, vet techs, security officers, a nurse, a trauma surgeon, etc. It does involve a serious commitment, but I don't think it is a lifestyle as some groups seem to require.

 

They are also welcoming to new members and will work with them as long as the newbie is willing to give it a serious try. Right now, they have a young(ish) female - early 20's - with a goldendoodle (yep!) - who may or may not make it. She has been coming to trainings, and her dog is decent, but she seems more concerned about coordinating her wardrobe. They are going to continue to work with her as long as she keeps trying.

 

I was saddened to hear about the NY group which is so elitest as to actively disparage well-performing dogs. The local volunteer SAR has labs, lab mixes, a BC, a Viszla (owned by the head trainer), the goldendoodle (in training), another golden retriever mix and ...?? A GSD was retired recently due to bad hips.

 

In addition to "Scent of the Missing", another good read is "What the Dog Knows" by Cat Warren. Her dog is an HRD dog.

[Maralynn]

Here is Cat Warren's website

 

http://catwarren.com

 

Here is a website on Historic Remains Detection if it may be something your friends want to check out, Roxanne

 

http://www.hhrdd.org/about.htm

 

And a map of New York SAR teams if a different one might be an option

 

http://www.nysfedsar.org/teams.php

 

They might also check out teams in New Hampshire if they are near the state at all. It's a shame that egos pushed them out of the one team. They are exactly the type of people needed in SAR work

[urge to herd]

Little hi-jack of the thread, I LOVED What the Dog Knows. Great writing, very informative entertaining. Really appreciated the chapter about bulls**t and the damage it can do, and did.

 

Ruth and SuperGibbs

[GentleLake]

Thanks, Mara. I'll give her the info.

 

In my quick search of Historic Remains (I didn't know what it was), I found that site and already sent her the link.

 

Interesting with the NY SAR team site. The team she worked with is listed for the county next to us. I don't recognize the name of the on e that came up for our county. I'll have to ask her about it. I may see her this evening.

 

Thanks for the info!

 

ETA: After a little digging, I see that the one listed for our county is the other one that was working together with the team she'd been training with. So she won't be working for them, as things intensified when the 2 teams got together to train (that's when her dog's name was removed from the training sign up). Very sad.

[smiles604]

Wow, thanks for all the honest and thoughtful posts! I am looking forward to the informational meeting this weekend, and all these responses definitely gives me something to think about. It seems like some of the important points to think about are: consider the time commitment, try to get a feel for the politics/inclusiveness of the group, and really think about how much I can commit to the lifestyle.

 

Another question I thought of...for those who do SAR, or who know someone who does, is it possible to work a full time job and still be an active participant? Do people have arrangements with their jobs to allow them to participate in missions (which, from my limited understanding, could be short or up to several days long)?

 

Also, that book by Cat Warren looks excellent - looking forward to reading it!

[Maralynn]

Almost everyone on my team has full time jobs. I do know a lot of SAR folks are also first responders in some other capacity. But not always (no one on my team currently). In this area we're not going to have call outs that are days long. Probably 6-8 hours would be the longest. So definitely ask what type of call outs the team usually gets and what percentage that they'd like each member to make.

 

Because, while it is a lifestyle thing, people also have real lives, jobs, families beyond SAR and a good team takes tho into account.

 

It is good to have an understanding with your boss about what will work for your job if you get involved. Can you come in late if you were up half the night? Will you be able to leave on short notice on occasion?