Sue R Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 Does anyone have suggestions for a replacement for bones as a dental-health strategy? With Megan's renal failure, I have to be cautious about her intake of phosphorus and so giving raw bones for chewing (with the side effect of clean teeth) is not advisable. I've wondered about chicken jerky (I've not bought it due to contamination issues, and would only consider USA-produced if I did) or beef jerky (that I could make myself). Or maybe frozen chicken breast (ice crystals are pretty abrasive). I have gotten a toothbrush and toothpaste for her but won't begin to use that until after her dental next week, when she is having a long-broken molar removed and her teeth cleaned. Thanks in advance! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gcv-border Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 I don't know about bone replacement, but WRT toothpaste and brushing, a finger cot works better for me than the toothbrush. Having said that, I don't do much brushing, and should probably do more, but have been trying to give raw bones when I think of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urge to herd Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 If you slice the chicken really, really thin before you freeze it - I know you need to watch overall protein intake. You might need to brush teeth as well. Good luck, Sue and Megan. Ruth and SuperGibbs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted March 31, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 Ruth - Actually, at this point, Megan is not on a protein restriction and so we aim for a minimum of 1 gm of protein per pound of body weight. And we are actually under-feeding phosphorus also for her stage of disease, and I need to increase a source of that in her diet, without going over. I'm seriously wondering if she could handle one or two sessions with a fresh, recreational bone each week. The beef marrow bones (I scoop out the fat) and knuckle bones that I have in the freezer are actually not anything that a dog consumes but rather cleans their teeth off scraping the minor amounts of meat and connective tissues adhering to the bones, and well as scraping the bone itself with their teeth. Since she has some leeway for phosphorus, I wonder if she could enjoy a bone like that just often enough to help with her teeth. I perceive that the folks on the kidney diet yahoo board are adamantly against feeding bones but if hardly any bone is consumed, if the Ca:P ratio is good, and if she's already not getting her "allowance" of phosphorus on a daily basis anyway, I wonder if we could do so at this stage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentleLake Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 Sue, please consider that you're risking tooth breakage with hard bones like that that can't be consumed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjones Posted April 1, 2015 Report Share Posted April 1, 2015 When Floss was alive I couldn't feed her any kind of bones or rawhide. Not because she couldn't have them, but because she refused to chew on them. I would hand them out to each dog and when I got to Floss she would leave the room and hide. I called her my PETA dog as she didn't believe in eating animal parts. So to keep her teeth clean I finally found something she would chew on, DentaCare yogurt sticks. They are made in Ireland I think, the only part I didn't like was that AKC's name was on the package. You would have to look at the ingredients to see if Megan could tolerate them, but I don't remember anything that stands out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simba Posted April 1, 2015 Report Share Posted April 1, 2015 That's kind of weird, why are the AKC things made in Ireland? Hmmm... I have something similar, small dog with bad teeth who has always got an upset stomach after raw meat or bones. I'm doing tooth brushing, not sure about the dental chews because they have starches and sugars in them and that seems counterintuitive to me. Any news on whether the zero calorie cornstarch chews would be bad for teeth? I tried a nylabone but she had less than no interest in it. And this is a dog who has gone into the cupboard and got out an eggcup before. She wouldn't even fetch it, and she fetches anything. The trouble is stopping her following you into the loo and then knocking over the toilet paper stand and bringing toilet paper around the house. Just in case you need loo paper at some undetermined point in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted April 1, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2015 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gideon's girl Posted April 1, 2015 Report Share Posted April 1, 2015 Bones aren't high in phosphorus. Remember when we were talking about this before and I realized I had gotten my thinking all twisted around. Meat is high in phosphorus and bones are high in calcium, so they are used to balance each other out. I'm sorry I got that so muddled. I'm taking care of my aunt with Alzheimer's and I'm afraid I have lost half my brain too. The biggest issue I'm aware of with bones and kidney disease is heavy metal contamination and you shouldn't have to worry about that either with your own beef. I would let her have a rib. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted April 1, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2015 The problem is that phosphorus is still very significant in bones, which have a Ca:P ratio of 2:1. As you said, phosphorus is higher in proportion to calcium in meat. Since we need to control P intake to no more than 20 mg per pound of body weight daily, any bones that she could chew enough to consume a significant amount (edible bones and bones like ribs or steak bones where enough bone is chewed off the edges) would still provide her with too much P. I do get confused myself, all the time with this. Some places, I read that as long as the Ca intake equals or exceeds the P intake, that is okay. Other places, it is strictly given as an acceptable (or not acceptable) intake based on mg of P per pound of body weight. The K9kidneydiet yahoo group, which seems extremely knowledgeable and also pretty "hard core", seems pretty adamant about "no bones". Currently, I have been suggested several alternatives but some of the most "palatable" ones still seem to have too much P (like certain dental chews made of rawhide). The ones that seem "safe" also don't seem palatable to Megan. I think she's a little spoiled after years of enjoying raw bones - and she is an avid chewer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gideon's girl Posted April 2, 2015 Report Share Posted April 2, 2015 Yikes!! How creative do you want to get? I wonder if she would enjoy chewing a towel/washcloth wet down with broth and rolled up then frozen, or if she would end up eating it. How about freezing some of her food into logs, so she can chew on that for a while. My dogs love getting their food partially frozen, but I live in FL, so the colder the better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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