gcv-border Posted March 11, 2015 Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 FYI http://www.border-wars.com/2014/03/inbred-crufts-border-collies.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Coyote Posted March 11, 2015 Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 Those dogs look just like little shelties. I never really noticed that before. I was thinking that they looked like stuffed plush toys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gcv-border Posted March 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 Whoops. My bad. This blog is owned by someone who was kicked off the BC Boards. I didn't know that at the time of posting. I still find the pattern of high COI's disturbing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloria Atwater Posted March 12, 2015 Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 They DO look like little plush toys. Show dogs look disconcerting to me at any time.Since I'm non-mathematical, though, I wish that along with the 13%-25% inbreeding discussion I could see the pedigrees in question. It would make more sense to me if I could see that the dog had the same two dogs 6 times in 2 generations, or whatever. I don't know what the percentages actually look like, and I know that when one gets far enough back in the old working lines, there's a lot of the same names popping up.~ Gloria Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pam Wolf Posted March 12, 2015 Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 One thing about inbreeding you eventually find most of the health problems in your lines * (sarcasm implied for the sarcastically impaired) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crawford Dogs Posted March 30, 2015 Report Share Posted March 30, 2015 Wait, people have actually been kicked off the boards? Wow, I bet that takes talent and perserverance. Pam Wolf, I so agree. I plan to marry my brother so I can find out what genetic defects I am carrying. I'm only aware of a few of them but in order to flush out the rest. . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maja Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 I did a comparison of sorts between supreme champions' inbreeding and Cruft best of breed winners over ten years because on the Polish forum someone had said that both (working and show) inbreed a lot, just for different reasons. Best of Breed at Cruft's 2014-2001 13% 20%19%9%13%13%14%14%26%9%0%7%16%18%Supreme International Champion - 2014-2001. 8% 7%6%8%9%8%7%7%11%14%16%10%6%8% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pam Wolf Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 Yes, both are inbred quite a bit. And it is not unheard of for a hill bitch's pups to look more like a neighbor's dog than the 'intended' or so I've heard, so could be more could be less. while many are concentrating on inbreeding, IMO it is like looking at the forest instead of the trees. Many are ignoring the health concerns we now have in the breed. It is becoming apparent that EOD is far more widespread than some would think. It is difficult to produce sound healthy working dogs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maja Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 I thought that the difference in the inbreeding is quite big. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald McCaig Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 Dear Doggers, Border Collies have one of the lowest COIs of any "purebred" dog. And genetic difficiences effecting usefulness exist but are uncommon. Donald McCaig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Billadeau Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 Inbreeding/line breeding has likely increased the incidence of EOD (number of affected dogs and therefore number of carriers) in our breed. Incidence rates of genetic diseases (breed health) and genetic diversity are interdependent. Genetic diversity/breed health is the forest while EOD is one tree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maja Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 I added the inbreeding for 2013 and 2014 for Cruft's BOB and International Supreme Champion. I think the trend is pretty obvious in each. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pam Wolf Posted April 1, 2015 Report Share Posted April 1, 2015 yes, Mark, EOD increased via inbreeding but as often-inbred or not via lies about dogs that were deaf at the time they were bred or lies about ancestors of dogs. Ditto for several other problems in the breed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Billadeau Posted April 1, 2015 Report Share Posted April 1, 2015 The problem with focusing just upon diseases recognized in a breed (typically this is the focus when breeding for improving health) and ignoring overall genetic diversity is that this can/will lead to the increase of incidence rates of not yet recognized genetic diseases. By focusing upon genetic diversity one will minimize the risk of breeding two dogs that carry the same genetic mutations, reducing the likelihood or producing affected or carriers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nancy Posted April 1, 2015 Report Share Posted April 1, 2015 Years ago, I had an aquaintance who owned several dobermans and bred them regularly. Yes, bred the few dobermans to each other. Brothers and sisters. She swore that, although inbreeding in humans could be a problem, inbreeding in dogs was a positive thing because you could maintain all those great traits. Yeah. Have to say it was an interesting area in which to live. Every bit of the spectrum of intelligence, aptitude, and responsibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pam Wolf Posted April 2, 2015 Report Share Posted April 2, 2015 However, Mark, if a disease already had a very high carrier rate, not knowing knowing the health risks will matter little as many will do 'outcrosses' and still get a fair number of affected. such is currently the case with EOD. People need to simply breed smarter with as much information on the ancestry as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald McCaig Posted April 2, 2015 Report Share Posted April 2, 2015 Dear Doggers, What's EOD? Donald McCaig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Billadeau Posted April 2, 2015 Report Share Posted April 2, 2015 EOD = Early Onset Deafness Dogs born hearing that go deaf in one or more ears between 3 and 6 years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amc Posted April 2, 2015 Report Share Posted April 2, 2015 Donald, EOD is Early Onset Deafness. It's become a target of recent research as it appears researchers may be getting close to a genetic test for it in the working Border Collie. Amy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Billadeau Posted April 10, 2015 Report Share Posted April 10, 2015 In my mind breeding smarter is breeding to maintain genetic diversity and avoiding known inherited diseases (which will come with genetic diversity); not simply breeding to avoid known inherited diseases. This article is a good review of combating inherited diseases in dogs. Everyone should read it. The section on the limitations of DNA disease tests is relavant for this discussion.http://www.cgejournal.org/content/2/1/3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.