Donald McCaig Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 Dear Doggers, Dr. Allman's theory is revisited: http://www.theguardian.com/science/2015/mar/01/hunting-with-wolves-humans-conquered-the-world-neanderthal-evolution Donald McCaig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smalahundur Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 Well, as far as I know there is not a sharp distinction between "human" and "neanderthal". This article seems to simplify human evolution a bit. But it is an attractive theory, the edge those so called modern humans supposedly had because of cooperating with wolves (dogs?). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloria Atwater Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 It's an interesting theory, especially given those 30,000 year old quasi-dog bones that were found. I think it's a bit over-simplified, since they've found DNA indicating that humans and Neanderthals actually inter-bred. I'd say humans survived due to a number of factors that rendered them the more suitably adaptable, rather than simply out-hunting the Neanderthals.But the part about wolves and humans partnering up as hunters earlier on does make sense. Other animals take advantage of each other's usefulness: i.e. coyotes wait on the bear to eat, vultures wait on the coyote and foxes will wait on everyone else. So it's easy to imagine humans taking advantage of the wolves' hunting prowess and following them until they had a big animal caught and crippled, easy to kill. It would be interesting to know what happened next - if the humans killed the prey and waited until the wolves had their fill, or if the humans just moved in and took the prey for themselves, eventually deciding to share it with the wolves and build the partnership into a cooperative effort.Whatever, it kind of even makes more sense than the traditional view of tamer wolves coming into camp for scraps and leavings, and eventually sticking around. Interesting stuff, anyhow!~ Gloria Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloria Atwater Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 P.S. I don't get the bit about the importance of wolves and humans having white sclera in their eyes, since wolves do not show the same amount of visible white as humans ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smalahundur Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 P.S. I don't get the bit about the importance of wolves and humans having white sclera in their eyes, since wolves do not show the same amount of visible white as humans ... Me neither. I think the fact that both are pack hunters that hunt in daylight was the most important factor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chanse Posted March 3, 2015 Report Share Posted March 3, 2015 P.S. I don't get the bit about the importance of wolves and humans having white sclera in their eyes, since wolves do not show the same amount of visible white as humans ... I think she was saying that the white sclera provides a good non-verbal way of communicating with the dog/wolf, which I would assume that in the book she ties that in with the fact that modern dogs are very good at learning non-verbal signals from people and can read facial expressions. Her idea seems to be that a human with white sclera made a better team with the dog/wolf, which led to them being the better hunter, and this would lead to humans having more white in the eye. Of course, not saying that I would agree with that, seem like a bit of a stretch to me. I guess that is her job though, come up with a guess and prove if it is right or wrong. Interesting article though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentleLake Posted March 3, 2015 Report Share Posted March 3, 2015 I think she was saying that the white sclera provides a good non-verbal way of communicating with the dog/wolf, which I would assume that in the book she ties that in with the fact that modern dogs are very good at learning non-verbal signals from people and can read facial expressions. Her idea seems to be that a human with white sclera made a better team with the dog/wolf, which led to them being the better hunter, and this would lead to humans having more white in the eye. Given that she seems to make the correlation of the sclera being white in both species (assuming the article's author has conveyed it accurately), I wouldn't agree that this is a one sided communication, i.e. that it's only the dog/wolf who's reading the signals. She seems to suggest that both species are reading the other's eyes. "Consider the whites of our eyes, she states. The wolf possesses white sclera as does Homo sapiens though, crucially, it is the only primate that has them." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chanse Posted March 3, 2015 Report Share Posted March 3, 2015 Given that she seems to make the correlation of the sclera being white in both species (assuming the article's author has conveyed it accurately), I wouldn't agree that this is a one sided communication, i.e. that it's only the dog/wolf who's reading the signals. She seems to suggest that both species are reading the other's eyes. "Consider the whites of our eyes, she states. The wolf possesses white sclera as does Homo sapiens though, crucially, it is the only primate that has them." Ah, good point. I somehow missed the fact that she was also talking about the wolf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted March 3, 2015 Report Share Posted March 3, 2015 Without white sclera, what would be the point of a good eye-roll? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentleLake Posted March 3, 2015 Report Share Posted March 3, 2015 Love it, Sue! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gideon's girl Posted March 4, 2015 Report Share Posted March 4, 2015 It is easier to see when a dog is afraid, overwhelmed, looking for escape, etc. when you can see the whites appearing. That certainly helps people to know when they are putting too much pressure on a dog. I suppose it isn't too great a leap to believe it helped build the dog/human relationship in the distant past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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