Raw feeding

[borasaurus]

Hi, Everyone. I wanted to start feeding raw (prey model), but it's all pretty overwhelming. Currently, I'm doing a home-cooked diet. Once we finish up what's left, I wanted to make the switch. It gives me a little bit of time to do more research and also find some places to buy meat from. I've read a bunch of different sites on how to get started and the balancing act is pretty intimidating. Would the "Sample Menu" posted here be a good way to start? I don't plan to feed much fish, but I have fish oil capsules (sardine and anchovy) that I already add to Kieran's food. Any other suggestions on things to look out for? I know there are a ton of previous threads on raw feeding (still trying to sort through them all); thanks for bearing with me!

[etlai]

The site linked claims dogs are carnivores (and implied non-omnivorous)? I've been giving mine various veggies for years, namely broccoli stalks as a treat. They, literally, eat it up.

[waffles]

That sample menu seems to be mostly bone in chicken and pork ribs. I certainly don't think it should take months to transition a dog to a new way of feeding either. I feed by the same %'s as the link you posted but I don't rely so much on chicken and more on red meats. I also don't over think things, just like my own diet. I eat a variety of foods and so does my dog. Most of what I feed is venison, beef and pork heart (heart is fed as muscle not organ), Chicken quarters or whole chickens, turkey parts, boneless beef (from a local butcher, it's trim/scrap), liver and kidney (chicken, beef, rabbit), pork neck, and whatever else I can find cheaply.

 

From what I can remember from the past few days I have fed boneless beef yesterday, venison ribs with a pork heart today, kidney/liver when I think about it (I freeze it in ice cube trays and toss him a piece every day or two) chicken quarter the other day, cow trachea Monday with venison. I feed bone-in meat every two days or so. In the beginning you'll want to feed bone in meat every day for a few weeks.

 

When you start, feed whole chickens you cut up into quarters or just buy chicken quarters or bone-in breast. Feed that for a week or two. If his stool is normal, then move on to something else slowly. Add in a few ounces of beef or whatever you can get your hands on. If he does good, then continue. When you add organs after a few weeks, go slow, like 1 ounce. If he handles it well, then keep going. Also, watch the sodium on the meats. I buy mostly from a local restaurant supply company, a local farmer, and local butcher. All venison is from family, friends. It took me a while to find reliable, cheap, healthy sources of meat. So don't get discouraged in the beginning if you're paying supermarket prices.

[borasaurus]

Yea, it's the difference between BARF and prey model. In the BARF view, dogs are omnivores, but in prey model, they're carnivores. I believe some sources claim that wolves eat the stomach contents of their prey, which would give them vegetables. But other sources say that wolves never do this and consume only the muscles, organs, and bones. On a side note, Kieran enjoys vegetables, but dogs' bodies aren't geared to process them like they do meat (shorter intestines). So veggies need to be ground up to benefit them anyway.

[borasaurus]

I was planning to start with chicken and then eventually move to varying sources. The issue for Kieran is that he has allergies, so I have to go pretty slowly when adding things to his diet. I'm sure I can find some good butchers around if I look hard enough. Actually, I didn't realize beef tracheas worked as well. I give him those, but they're of the dried variety for his teeth and he seems fine with them.

[teresaserrano]

My previous dog Sara was raw fed, she didn't do well at all on kibble. I found it actually pretty simple. Start slow with just one protein, then increase the protein sources one at a time so you are aware if the dog doesn't react well to any of them. Liver should be introduced in small bits and increase quantity over time as it can cause loose stools if too much too soon. Then just give as much variety as possible, and give large pieces. Bone is a relatively small portion of the diet, but the dog's stools will tell you if he needs more or less bone. The individual meal doesn't have to be perfectly balanced, the overall diet does, just like with us humans. And if you want you can give "good" leftovers and vegs now and then.

[waffles]

You can probably find raw beef trachea for much cheaper than the dried variety. I pay .60 /lb for a case of trachea and esophagus. It's a small part of his overall diet. I've seen dried trachea packaged and sold for dogs in stores at a huge mark up.

[borasaurus]

Wow, that's cheap! I'm concerned my mom won't let me feed him bones or even raw. I'll probably have to wait until I move out for graduate school to really get into it. I think it's scary for me to do because I don't even really eat balanced meals over time. So when people say it's similar to how we would balance our meals, my response is o__O? Or maybe I do, but I don't realize it. I'm not really the healthiest eater.

[Root Beer]

I've gone around and around on the question of veggies, and in the end decided to feed them occasionally. I don't feed them daily. And I do up some mashed sweet potato fairly regularly. Bandit adores sweet potato - I stuff his kongs with it, and it is really easy to prepare a big batch.

 

When I give veggies, I usually cook them a bit and then smash them if smashing is in order.

 

They seem to enjoy the veggies, and it gives them some variety in their diet.

 

Even if they can eat just meat and bone, in the long run I concluded that I don't want to limit their diet to just that.

[Gideon's girl]

In a perfect world, all meat would be free range, grass fed, organically grown, but since this isn't a perfect world, I add veggies and fruit that are known for their antioxidant content. And for my little old JRT, who gets constipated easily, I give a double dose of veggies.

[borasaurus]

Kieran loves veggies, so in his current diet he has a variety pureed and then steamed with his meat. He'll pull all of his tricks out for a small piece of celery or lettuce. I think it's funny because my friend's dog abhors vegetables and when they were together, he kept trying to eat the veggies because Kieran made them look so good, but ended up just spitting it out.

[B Point]

Haha...Tio love veggies, too. I gave a piece of carrot to Juno with Tio sitting right beside him chomping on a chunk. Juno spits it out and looks up at Tio with a "what the hell is wrong with you?" look on his face.

[Smalahundur]

In a perfect world, all meat would be free range, grass fed, organically grown, but since this isn't a perfect world, I add veggies and fruit that are known for their antioxidant content. And for my little old JRT, who gets constipated easily, I give a double dose of veggies.

Well, in that "perfect world" meat would still be just meat.

Nutritionally there is not much difference between "organic" and "regular" meat.

By the way the meat I eat is from grass fed, free range animals, there are good reasons to prefer it

[Gideon's girl]

Chemicals do get into the whole body and the ratio of the different fat types is off. Those things can affect the body's ability to heal itself. Yes, there certainly are reasons to prefer natural meat, not just taste, which is far superior. Here is the US, the meat processors may be adding things to your meat that you may not want to know about, think pink slime.

[Maralynn]

Dogs can process carbs as their bodies produce the enzyme to do so. I fed raw to one dog for 6 years. It was pretty straight forward after I started. After 6 years she started having skin issues again so I added in THK dehydrated and her skin cleared up again.

[D'Elle]

Kieran loves veggies, so in his current diet he has a variety pureed and then steamed with his meat. He'll pull all of his tricks out for a small piece of celery or lettuce. I think it's funny because my friend's dog abhors vegetables and when they were together, he kept trying to eat the veggies because Kieran made them look so good, but ended up just spitting it out.

My terrier *loves* fruits and vegetables of all kinds. I can even train him with pieces of celery, carrot, or stems from kale. Unless it is something not good for dogs (like onion or peppers) I give him some of whatever raw fruit or vegetable I am eating. The other dogs, who always looked at me as if I were crazy if I offered them anything plant-like, now want some too because Digger has made it look good to them. At first they spit it out, whereupon Digger would dive in and eat it, but now they are all eating celery and apple and kale stems. It's pretty funny. They don't get a whole lot, but I figure what they do get is a good supplement to their diet. I would like to feed partially raw, but the border collies have problems with raw foods, and I can't feed the dogs differently, so it won't work for me at this point.

[Bogwoppit]

Any thoughts on this sort of food? They bill it as a good alternative for raw feeders who forgot to defrost their meat.

http://purepetfood.co.uk I'm not sure if it counts as "raw" or not.

 

I've used some and it is inoffensive to the nose, and looks like instant noodle powder and ingredients. Yet somehow comes out the other end of the dog far far bigger than when it went in.

[waffles]

We have dehydrated food here too in the US but it is so very expensive. I also like feeding big pieces of meat and bone in meat because it gives him something to work on for 5 or so minutes and it keeps his teeth clean. Mushy dehydrated doesn't do that.

 

If I forget to take food out of the freezer the night before, I just put it in a bowl of hot water. In an hour or so depending on the thickness of whatever I am feeding, it is defrosted enough or all the way to feed. Many people feed their food frozen too. For dogs that just gulp it down they say feeding frozen helps slow them down. I have no issue feeding partially frozen and since I don't stick to a strick time line I just feed when it's defrosted enough. Though I admit it's easier to just take out a few days worth and leave in the fridge until needed.

[Smalahundur]

I also don´t really see the need for feeding dogs solely "human graded" food. Wasteful imo.

[etlai]

I agree with Smal's comment.

 

Also, I remember a couple years back reading (and hearing, and witnessing) dogs who were fed rawhide's that were manufactured in China having a high correlation to developping cancer. Given how much this ailment affects dogs of all breeds...

 

Any scientific studies on dogs' quality of life (health) on a raw diet compared to kibs n bits?

[waffles]

 

I also don´t really see the need for feeding dogs solely "human graded" food. Wasteful imo.

I agree. I feed a lot of what people won't eat (trachea, esophagus, heart, kidney, tongue, trim, etc) even though it does come from butchers and restaurant supply places. I think labeling dog food as human grade is a great selling point from the companies stand point, just like putting 'all natural' on a bag of potato chips. It makes people feel good about that high priced food. I never knew how much meat hunters toss (plus ribs, neck) from deer because it isn't the prime cut or whatever. I get a lot of great venison this way as well as one year old meat they don't want because hunting season is coming up. I take meat that would otherwise be tossed in the garbage. My father in law thinks it's amazing that him and his friends don't have to waste so much when they butcher now because I will take it all!

[waffles]

I agree with Smal's comment.

 

Also, I remember a couple years back reading (and hearing, and witnessing) dogs who were fed rawhide's that were manufactured in China having a high correlation to developping cancer. Given how much this ailment affects dogs of all breeds...

 

Any scientific studies on dogs' quality of life (health) on a raw diet compared to kibs n bits?

I doubt you could find any because everyone who says they feed raw feeds differently. Some feed prepackaged tubes of raw from a store, some feed a lot of red meat, some feed all chicken, some feed a really high ratio of bones, some feed mostly wild game, some don't even feed organs, some feed this and that and whatever.

 

I think most people who choose to not feed commercial dog food do it because it just makes sense to them or because it is what their dog does best on for whatever reason. I know this is why I feed this way. It just makes sense to me. Same for how I feed myself.

[teresaserrano]

I feed a lot of what people won't eat (trachea, esophagus, heart, kidney, tongue, trim, etc) even though it does come from butchers and restaurant supply places.

 

Stewed cow tongue with lots of tomato and onions is absolutely delicious. I'm getting hungry just thinking about it. A pain to do though, has to be boiled, de-skinned and then stewed.

[mum24dog]

 

Stewed cow tongue with lots of tomato and onions is absolutely delicious. I'm getting hungry just thinking about it. A pain to do though, has to be boiled, de-skinned and then stewed.

Too much food around if people won't eat heart, kidneys or tongue. I'm not keen on heart but would eat it. Steak and kidney pie? Love tongue too.

[Maralynn]

Stewed cow tongue with lots of tomato and onions is absolutely delicious. I'm getting hungry just thinking about it. A pain to do though, has to be boiled, de-skinned and then stewed.

 

My mom was a dairy farm kid. She used to love taking cow tongue sandwiches to school to gross the other kids out