Bogwoppit Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 Cats can be excellent liars. One of ours learned as a kitten that if she squealed, the oldest cat would get squirted with water for trying to bite her. Unfortunately she started doing it when she was bored to get him punished, and I had no idea until I heard a squeal, turned with water in hand and my mother called to me not to "shoot", that it was a total frame-up and the adult cat had merely been sitting nearby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simba Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 Our cat does a special "jump onto sleeping dog, claw at their face/bite their ears/obnoxiously sit right on elderly dog's sore hip, get chased away by dog, watch dog get scolded." If cats could laugh... The dog now curls her lip when she's lying down and the cat comes over, and when he gets in trouble she will run over to 'correct' him. I stop her doing the last one, but it's hard not to think he deserves it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanaWilson Posted January 29, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 I've been watching the 2 of them closely and while he's a little more interested in her than he should be, I can tell by his body language that Ruckus mostly just wants to play and isn't sure how to do that. Beans likes to play too, but he's so much bigger than her and he doesn't play like she does (although she has him beat hands down for being way better at fetch because she'll bring it back to me!) so she usually just ends up swatting at him to make him back up. I'm trying to get him to lay down so he's not so big but he has a hard time doing that AND trying to play lol He's never tried to hurt her and even though he watches her a lot, she's still able to get to her food, water, litter box and bed without him bugging her or trying to herd her away from any of it. Plus she's got all day while we're at work away from his watchful eye. Meanwhile we're slowly making the switch from puppy to adult formula and he's farting up my office right now lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 If you are a responsible owner your dog wont get chance to mount any bitches at least not long enough. I just want to point out that it can take just a second for a bitch in standing heat and a dog to tie. And once they are tied, you can injure them trying to separate them. I just wanted to make that a bit clearer so that people don't think it's okay for an intact dog to mount and in heat bitch because they will have time to break it up, so to speak. They may or may not, so it's not worth taking the chance, IMO. Regarding early spay or neuter, I see no reason to go that route as long as the owner in question is capable of preventing their dog from producing a litter. It never hurts to inform oneself about the pros and cons of either choice, but at least here in the US, there will be pressure for you to neuter young. It would help if you have educate yourself so that you can provide your vet with sound reasons for wanting to wait (or not). Does your brother use his bitch to manage livestock? J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanaWilson Posted January 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2015 Does your brother use his bitch to manage livestock? He plans to. He has 6 head of cattle right now but he's not letting her get in with them a whole lot so far. Right now she's just herding the cats into the garage whenever she gets the opportunity. He did whatever research he felt was necessary and I'm staying out of it. But between all of you and me, I think she is far too small, sweet and sensitive to be a serious working dog. I'm not sure he's interacting with her at all on an intellectual level. They dote on their doberman and let him loose in the house as he pleases. She is either outside or locked in her crate. I'm worried he's going to break her spirit if he waits too long to start working her on something. Plus he has an electric shock training collar that he got before he decided what breed he was going to get. I'm really hoping he decides he doesn't need to put it on her! Maybe I'm just being oversensitive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentleLake Posted January 30, 2015 Report Share Posted January 30, 2015 Wow! I don't think you're being oversensitive. Why did he even get this dog? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanaWilson Posted January 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2015 Wow! I don't think you're being oversensitive. Why did he even get this dog? He's wanting to get into ranching and needed a dog to work his herd as it grows. He's a farrier now so he's seen a lot of working dogs. I didn't know he was going to get one until he had her already and I didn't know the breed at all other than them being herding dogs. I would have discouraged him from a bc if I'd already had Ruckus just knowing his sensitive nature but his dog is the reason I decided I wanted one too lol Maybe she won't make the cut and he'll give her to me! (probably not, she was expensive lol) He has 4 kids and they love on her and I make sure to play with her whenever I'm there so she's not neglected at all. I just think he's waiting too long to enrich her mind and train her, but I'm minding my own business and trying to show him with my actions how far my unfinished dog has come because of the time I'm putting into him. Maybe he'll see that and think "Hmm...I should get Pistol working or they'll show us up!" lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloria Atwater Posted January 30, 2015 Report Share Posted January 30, 2015 He plans to. He has 6 head of cattle right now but he's not letting her get in with them a whole lot so far. Right now she's just herding the cats into the garage whenever she gets the opportunity. He did whatever research he felt was necessary and I'm staying out of it. But between all of you and me, I think she is far too small, sweet and sensitive to be a serious working dog. I'm not sure he's interacting with her at all on an intellectual level. They dote on their doberman and let him loose in the house as he pleases. She is either outside or locked in her crate. I'm worried he's going to break her spirit if he waits too long to start working her on something. Plus he has an electric shock training collar that he got before he decided what breed he was going to get. I'm really hoping he decides he doesn't need to put it on her! Maybe I'm just being oversensitive. This makes me so, so very sad. No, you're not being oversensitive. He's a perfect example of someone who should never get a border collie. He's treating it like a tool he can just toss in a tool box, then one day get it out, stick in the battery and go to work. Border collies have to be taught, handled and trained. If he's not doing anything with her, then he's going to end up being yet another ignoramus complaining about how useless his border collie is, because it won't do everything he wants automatically. Poor little dog. ~ Gloria Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanaWilson Posted February 1, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 I don't see him very often because he lives an hour and a half away from us, but I did see him today. I had Ruckus with me and he and his wife both commented on how much better behaved he is than Pistol (they said he was prettier too but that's beside the point lol). They're going through some health issues with their doberman right now so maybe that will help them be more sensitive to her needs in the future. He had her working the horses recently though, so that's good. I love him but he can be very stubborn and opinionated and a little judgmental. Pistol is a great dog and I know that when he isn't around, his wife and 2 daughters baby her. If he lets us bring Ruckus to play, I think it'll be a good thing. I'm not sure when that might be though with the doberman having health problems. They think he's got a neurological disorder, poor baby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 On the phone so can't write much, but his dog should *not* ever be encouraged to work horses. They are too dangerous and there is no good reason for it. Others will expain, I am sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gcv-border Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 ".... He had her working the horses recently though, so that's good......" No, that is not good. Not if he values the life of his dog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloria Atwater Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 ...... He had her working the horses recently though, so that's good. ...... Oh, my lord, NO! That is so NOT good! Dogs should never work horses - ever! One lightning-fast kick can shatter a dog's skull or break its neck. Never, ever, ever should dogs work horses. Or mules or donkeys or any member of the equine species. Never. All it takes is one quick pop and the dog is dead or brain damaged. Or shattered rips, broken shoulder, broken back, broken hip, broken leg ... Trust me on this. Hubby and I packed mules and cowboyed for over 20 years, and we heard enough stories of dogs who got killed by horses simply by being in the wrong place at the wrong time. One guy had a super nice young male dog who was killed instantly simply because it walked behind a horse just minding its own business and pow. Setting a dog out to work horses deliberately is a recipe for disaster. *sighhh* I think I'd better stop reading this thread, because I'm thinking even less of poor Pistol's chances in this world. ~ Gloria Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanaWilson Posted February 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 I'm sorry if I upset you guys! I overheard a conversation he was having and I thought he was talking about their new horse, but they were actually talking about one of their heifers. They know to keep Pistol away from the horses, they've already kicked a coyote and it had a weird seizure and ran off. They don't let the dogs in the pasture with them ever. I have one more question though. About a week into the transition from Blue Wilderness puppy food to their adult food, I realized that Ruckus was still having horrible gas and very runny poops and it wasn't getting better with time so I took him off it right out, returned the bag and switched him to Canidae Pure Elements. He's 1000% better on it and I remember seeing someone say that I should occasionally change his protein source. Does anyone have any opinions on how often I should do that? He's eating the salmon right now but they also have lamb, bison and duck formulas that I can switch between. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gcv-border Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 I have 2 dogs (33 lbs and 39 lbs) and usually buy a 28 - 30 lb bag of kibble. I buy a different brand and/or protein source every time I buy a new bag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alligande Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 I change foods every time we finish a large bag, my dog gets bored with food very quickly so I change often. Some food agrees with him well, others don't and then I just don't buy that one again and simply try another, there is loads of choice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald McCaig Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 Dear Doggers, I've fed Purina Exclusive lamb and rice to all my dogs for many years. Maybe 6 times a year they get bones. They get leftovers atop their kibble. They eat sheep poop and gnaw the deer bones the guard dogs drag in. When they get very old and/or sick they get a fussy diet but until then they seem to do fine on the above. Donald McCaig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsmbc Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 I feed Canidae grain free, too. I don't ever switch brands, as that can upset sensitive stomachs, but I do switch proteins within the Canidae grain-free line. So I rotate between the pure elements, the pure sky, the salmon and the bison. Just a money saving tip, email Canidae and they will send you coupons, basically for life. Also, save the UPC on the bags, they have a buy 12 get one free program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanaWilson Posted February 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 My computer glitched and it double posted and I can't seem to be able to delete it so here's a picture I made in photoshop of Ruckus driving a car Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanaWilson Posted February 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 I feed Canidae grain free, too. I don't ever switch brands, as that can upset sensitive stomachs, but I do switch proteins within the Canidae grain-free line. So I rotate between the pure elements, the pure sky, the salmon and the bison. Just a money saving tip, email Canidae and they will send you coupons, basically for life. Also, save the UPC on the bags, they have a buy 12 get one free program. Thank you! I'll tell them how well Ruckus is doing on their food while I'm at it. I always like getting emails like that at my job and I usually send those customers goodies for making my day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanaWilson Posted February 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 We had our obedience class orientation last night and I'm undecided on my feelings about the class. She'd told us she does small classes when we signed up and it turns out we're the only ones who enrolled in this particular one so it looks like it's going to be more like private lessons than a class. In a way, I like it because we can focus on our dog alone, but I was really wanting to get him some socialization. Also, the trainer is of the "fix them as soon as you can" school of thought and told me point blank that waiting until he's at least 2 because he's not done growing is bulls**t and that he's going to start marking all over our house and trying to either mount or kill every other dog he encounters. He hasn't shown any aggressive behavior toward the 2 dogs he's been around so far (they're a fixed male and female), but he has marked 3 times inside their house. I guess I was just hoping for some words of encouragement and validation on our decision not to neuter him at this time being the right one and what I should do about him marking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tess's Girl Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 Dog training is not a regulated business so any tom dick or sally can start charging money and say he's a dog trainer. You'll find a wide range of experience and ability in the dog training world. What drew you to this particular trainer? Some people do support spaying or neutering as early as possible. But if she is saying because his behavior is going to be effect then I would say she is a bit out of the loop. Neutering can have an effect on some dogs, but most of the time it's not enough to really change their behavior as a whole. I don't currently have the links to some of the more recent studies about neutering but someone else may chime in. Read the literature and make the decision for yourself. I am waiting until Crow is at least 2 to make the decision of whether or not to neuter him. I also know more non neutered male dogs that get along fine with other dogs than those that do not. At the end of the day it's your decision. It's nice that you will end up with a pretty much private class, if you like the rest of the training just tell the trainer that you'll respectfully disagree about neutering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alligande Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 I had arguments with my agility trainer about neutering my dog, bad enough that it almost ended a 2 year relationship, I stuck to my position, she thought I was nuts and at 5 my dog is still not neutered and I have no reason to. He is your dog and it is your decision, do not be pushed around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chanse Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 Neutering is a topic that I am struggling with as well. Archer is 9 months old and I decided to not consider neutering till 1yr. After reading through this forum it sounds like I may want to wait till 18 months (I guess that is when they are done growing). Archer has started marking outside about a month ago. Actually, the first time he marked was in agility class, he was trying to claim the tunnel while I wasn't watching. But I haven't had any issue in my apartment. But yeah, this is a confusing topic. Scientific studies are all over the place. Neutering decreases the risk of some cancers and increases the risk of others. One study found that neutered dogs lived longer (9.4yrs for neutered vs 7.9yrs for intact http://www.aaha.org/blog/newstat/post/2013/04/18/467371/research-finds-that-neutered-or-spayed-dogs-lead-longer-lives.aspx). Another study found that spaying/neutering in vizslas caused them to be more likely to develop behavioral issues (http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/three-reasons-to-reconsider-spayneuter/). There were also reports showing that intact dogs were more likely to be relinquished to animal shelters for behavioral problems. Then a later study found that there was an increase in the relinquishment of neutered/spayed dogs with the reason being that the operation did not correct the behavioral issue. Then I wonder how informative these studies can be. How can these studies take into account the owners ability to care for a dog? In the US neutering/spaying are considered part of responsible pet ownership. That study that found neutered dogs to live longer then intact dogs also found that intact dogs were more likely to die from infectious disease or trauma while neutered dogs were more likely to die from cancer. So I wonder if those results are skewed by the irresponsible pet owner who won't take their dog to the vet when it is sick? Right now I am leaning towards neutering at 18 months, but still don't think I have decided. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
borasaurus Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 I'd be wary of those sorts of studies as well. It doesn't seem like they controlled for anything besides the effects of age and congenital issues (the first one). With so many variables in there, the results will be seriously skewed. Just because they use a ton of samples doesn't mean their results are going to be valid. This reads like one of those random surveys you see everywhere. It might as well be a Family Feud topic. Correlation doesn't imply causation! This cracks me up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloria Atwater Posted February 20, 2015 Report Share Posted February 20, 2015 We had our obedience class orientation last night and I'm undecided on my feelings about the class. She'd told us she does small classes when we signed up and it turns out we're the only ones who enrolled in this particular one so it looks like it's going to be more like private lessons than a class. In a way, I like it because we can focus on our dog alone, but I was really wanting to get him some socialization. Also, the trainer is of the "fix them as soon as you can" school of thought and told me point blank that waiting until he's at least 2 because he's not done growing is bulls**t and that he's going to start marking all over our house and trying to either mount or kill every other dog he encounters. He hasn't shown any aggressive behavior toward the 2 dogs he's been around so far (they're a fixed male and female), but he has marked 3 times inside their house. I guess I was just hoping for some words of encouragement and validation on our decision not to neuter him at this time being the right one and what I should do about him marking. Hmm. Not sure about that instructor. I'll respect her opinion about when to neuter a dog, but her scenarios are fairly extreme. I've got a 6 year old intact dog who has never marked in my house and while he is a flirt when meeting new girls, he doesn't try to mount or kill every dog he meets. I go to a lot of sheepdog trials and train at other friends' houses, and there's only one dog in the entire mix that he shows agression towards - and they kind of mutually hate each other. Plain fact is, any sheepdog trial is going to be filled with intact dogs, and I've never seen a fight or anything more than an occasional growl. After all, farmers need their dogs to work together and they can't have them fighting at every turn. Bottom line, you train and manage your dog in the way you want him to be. That male dog that my dog has a hate for? Is neutered and has been since he was young. He's just a jerk towards my dog and my dog is a jerk towards him. Make sure this instructor feels right for you. If you have any reservations and you don't walk in the door feeling glad to be there, there's no shame in shopping for a better fit. Best of luck! ~ Gloria Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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