Resource Guarding

[chene]

As I've mentioned, Aed has recently developed (or revealed) some issues with resource guarding. At his socialization class he snarled at a dog over some treats in the pet store (not sure exactly what happened, I think he was probably sniffing them and the other dog went to sniff them too), and snapped at a dog who I was holding. He also snarled at a few dogs I paid attention to or petted through the cage. Lastly, while in the pen he got snippy with a dog he had been playing fine with, and another one he was fine with until they picked her up (she was getting over the top) and when they put her back down after she calmed down Aed snapped at her (he wasn't just waiting for her, she went back over to him when she was set down). She hadn't done anything wrong that time and he had been extremely tolerant when she was being crazy just before. So I'm not sure if his snapping was a too-late correction from him, or if he was maybe guarding the trainer, or if there was just some tiny interaction we missed.

Anyways, I'm not sure how relevant all of that is, but I'm doing my best to get all the information out that I can. After that class is was clear that he couldn't attend until his issues got dealt with. However, while trying to find his...guarding threshold, for lack of a better term, I haven't seen anywhere near the same level of intensity. He does not guard me or my boyfriend no matter how much attention I give to other dogs, no matter who the other dogs are. He didn't even react to other dogs around his toy until one went to grab it, and then he got guard-y.

So I guess I'm just wondering how to approach this. He is obviously capable of much more intense guarding, probably because he was more stressed than usual at that puppy class (it being his first one in a month or so). But he doesn't display it, so will fixing the minimal guarding that he has help fix the intense guarding? Also, where do I draw the line where a reaction is acceptable? And what reaction is acceptable? I can't see many dogs willingly giving up their toys or food if another dog tries to take it, but obviously the snarling isn't ideal.

Feel free to post links to other threads if this has been discussed before (and I'm sure it has, I'm just terrible at using the search function).

[d112358]

Resource guarding against other dogs is pretty hard to solve, but you can set yourself up well with management techniques that may diminish his insecurity over time. If you have another easy-going dog to work with, I would do some group training using treats. Make the other dog getting food become a predictor of him getting a treat. I also proof 'leave it' like crazy.

[Chan]

I think RG against other dogs is much harder to deal with than RG against people. That being said, here is my fairly recent experience with my puppy.

 

When Rook was about 12 weeks we had a little issue with this. At puppy class his bag was on the floor with toys and some high value treats and he was right beside it when a little golden walked up and stuck her nose in where the treats were. He snarled at her. I gave him an "aaat, aaat" and then we sat the puppies a few feet apart and I alternated giving them treats, watching him for an signs of snarkiness. A couple of weeks later I was rewarding him with food and the golden came and stuck her nose right up by his nose and into my hand. He snapped at her again. Verbal correction and sit near each other and get treated again but he snarled again so we spaced them a little further and had an acceptable response then separated. He also once snarked at a visiting dog when he was sniffing the open door of the dishwasher and she came to join in. I have an older dog at home and he did not show any signs of RG with her or his doggie friend who he is on more equal footing with.

 

I did a search on the board and found a topic where I believe Debbie M. commented about how she dealt with a dog exhibiting RG and that was basically to try to avoid putting her in situation to RG until she got older and developed more self control. She saw it as a maturity issue and felt like once she had more self control it would improve and I believe it did for her. Well, that made a lot of sense to me. So, we avoided that little golden at class if there was any chance there would be toys or food involved. I did let him briefly say hi to her in very neutral areas.

 

I was very mindful about not putting him in a situation where he felt the need to defend a high value object, especially with a more submissive dog, for several months. As he has grown I have carefully allowed him to have some fairly low value bones around other visiting dogs and we've progressed to more valued bullied sticks and cow hoofs and he has done quite well. I will also say that my older dog is a fairly good roll model on how to mutually coexist while chewing yummy things and it seems to be helping him as well.

 

I would think that tight spaces, which is what it sounds like that puppy class provides might not be the best environment right now. Wide open spaces with other distractions seem like they would be better for interacting with other dogs right now, with minimal objects to guard.

 

I wish you the best of luck in dealing with the issue. I know it can be very stressful.

 

Chandra

 

Edited to add, I guess I was writing my response as the previous poster was posting - great minds and all that

Edited January 15, 2015 by Chan

[GentleLake]

Am I correct in understanding that this is only happening in the socialization class? If so, is this at the training center where he was strung up?

 

Mostly just thinking out loud here (and waiting on confirmation on the above). If it is only there, I wonder if Aed could be making some negative associations between interacting with the puppies there and what happened to him. I.e. that he has a shorter fuse there because he already knows that bad things can happen to him when other puppies are around.

 

If that should be the case, I think maybe seeing if he does the same thing in similar situations but in other locations would make any difference. If it does, I'd reward the heck out of any positive interactions he has there and shift your socialization sessions to other locations.

 

I'd reward the heck out of any positive interactions he has anywhere with other dogs, actually, especially at the training facility.

[d112358]

I probably wouldn't correct for overreacting and guarding unless you need to break up a fight, just calmly remove him to a calmer area and manage the interaction. It's easy to reinforce 'other dogs approaching'=bad if the behavior chain is the other dog getting too close, him snarking then getting told off or corrected.

[chene]

Thanks for the responses. Aed has a very good leave it, and doesn't have trouble (outside of class that one night) with dogs near his food/toys/owners unless they actually reach in towards it (not necessarily to take it, maybe just to sniff it, but he doesn't know that). Would treating him whenever another dog gets food help with that? I am also still interested in where to draw the line of what is acceptable? How should he be reacting to a dog trying to take his stuff?

Chan, that's an excellent point about the tight spaces. I didn't think about that. The x-pen set up is pretty big, but there are a bunch of other dogs in there, and on the outside it is definitely cramped. They offer another type of socialization for dogs of all ages which is a "pack walk", which is a mixture of walking, socializing, and training, and it's not just for puppies. It's only every two weeks but I'm thinking I will try that out, it'll maybe solve some issues both Gentlelake and you have brought up (actually, issues, plenty of people brought up in the other thread too).

Gentlelake, he does it anywhere, but not to the same extent as that one night in class. The actual location of this socialization class and the one where he was choked are different, but close enough that it doesn't make a ton of difference (different locations of the same pet store). We aren't going back there at the moment, but it would be nice if we knew that his guarding was only that bad because of a negative interaction. Perhaps I'll try going back to the pet store during the day when there is no class, just to see if that brings on anything. Doing the socialization walk thing will probably also give some more answers to your questions.

Another thing: We don't really have any friends with dogs, although there are some people in our apartment whose dogs Aed is friends with. So we can use them to help, but not a ton. We've been taking Aed just to the off-leash dog park (I know, I know, not always the best behaved dogs, but I've never had a problem at this one so I'm going along with it for now). Is this a bad idea? I was reading through "Mine!" and one of the things that she mentioned is how detrimental a guarding incident can be to the progress. And Aed has definitely had some guarding incidents at the park, just not very serious or intense, like I talked about.

[chene]

I probably wouldn't correct for overreacting and guarding unless you need to break up a fight, just calmly remove him to a calmer area and manage the interaction. It's easy to reinforce 'other dogs approaching'=bad if the behavior chain is the other dog getting too close, him snarking then getting told off or corrected.

 

Good point. That is what we do (removing him, I mean, not correcting him), though I hadn't really thought about why before.

[urge to herd]

I was thinking kinda the same thing GentleLake was thinking, only expanding it a little to wonder if he'd had any stressors earlier in the day, or even if the guy who hung him was any where around.

 

Take a look at all the stress he's getting in one or two days to see if he's just too busy. Even good stress, the kind that comes when there's a lot of fun activity, or a lot of good training going on in a short period of time. It all adds up, and can bring a tolerance level down.

 

Ruth and SuperGibbs

[chene]

I think there were definitely stressors. Like I said, it was his first class in a month or so. He had seen much fewer people and dogs all December and then suddenly was thrown into that setting when literally the only time he'd been in that setting in the past month was when we were there two days before for five minutes and the assistant trainer choked him. The guy that choked him was definitely not around during the class. He was probably on the other side of the city at home.

In terms of everyday stress, I don't think he's got much other than coming back here after being at my parents' for Christmas. But maybe that is a big deal, even if we've been here two weeks already. He suddenly has to deal with the busy-ness of the city, work on car chasing, walking on his short leash, meeting people and dogs everywhere, etc. He usually goes to the park or the beach every day, and simple training like sit, stay, leave it, bring it, etc. is incorporated into daily routines but he doesn't get formal training sessions very often. He is usually crated for 2-4 hours a day. What do you think? Is there something we should change?

Still, he did guard a bit against my parents' dog at home. It got much, much better over the time he was there, but he would still get snarly if the other dog was trying to take his stuff (which the dog was. often. he had no manners). So it's not as if it's entirely out of the blue.

[Donald McCaig]

Dear Doggers,

Perhaps some of the problem is treats. When you make liver snaps Dog Money and then start delivering them at times and under conditions the dog cannot predict"Who gets the Money" becomes a Goldman Sacs problem.

 

I wonder about this because I have never, in thirty years, had one dog who "guarded resources". I feed my dogs apart (even when there's four in one small motel room) and remove the dishes after they gobble dinner. On bone days I stand on the porch and each dog, including the guard dogs, comes up, (more or less by rank) and walks off with his/her bone. No snarling, no snatching.

 

After dinner I sometimes (not always) invite a house dog to take a few licks of my plate, then give way for the next dog.

 

But no treats.

 

I am not an obedience trainer and getting my dogs to back up from the door and stay long enough for me to open it is a real circus. But no, never any resource guarding. Problem with money is that someone's gonna want to steal it.

 

Donald McCaig

[Root Beer]

I would recommend an open bar/close bar protocol on a mat. Of course, that would first require charging up the mat, building some duration, and then making arrangements to work with someone who has a mature dog with a nice level of self control.

 

The important thing is to move slowly and not bring the dog in toward Aed too quickly because you would want to keep her under threshold.

 

What you would be looking for is an attitude change as she begins to realize that the presence of the dog actually makes the treats appear, and the retreat of the dog makes them vanish. That takes multiple repetitions, at least over several days.

 

After that, I would move to parallel work, starting with a barrier between the two dogs, and gradually have them loose, but not interacting. Of course, over time, different dogs would need to be incorporated into both protocols.

Plain old LAT can be helpful for this, too, but - again - appropriate distance is key.

 

Bandit developed a bit of snarky resource guarding with my other two dogs when he was about 7 months old. I was simply consistent about removing whatever he was getting snarky over the second it happened. So, if I was giving out tidbits of meat and he got snarky, the meat vanished (Tessa and Dean lost some opportunities, unfortunately, but this was necessary and temporary). If it was over space (which happened much less), opportunity for that space was removed from all dogs.

He got the picture and he's doing awesome now - understanding that he needs to wait his turn and keep his head when high value stuff is in the picture.

 

Lots of options.

[kingfisher7151]

I particularly like the comment from Rook, I did something very similar with my dog. Keeper and I encountered some resource guarding problems when he was around 6 months old. They were almost always with the same dog in the house. I never gave him the chance to do it anywhere else so there's a good chance it would have happened anywhere. I posted a little about it on here and got good responses. Ultimately, I decided not to address the issue and let Keeper grow up and get some confidence. I did control exercises and tried to create positive situations between him and the other dog, but I never addressed resource guarding itself. And you know what? The issue is gone now. In Keeper's situation the resource guarding happened during times of high arousal (FOOD!!!) where he simply did not have the maturity or control to behave himself. Instead of creating a fight with him I decided to wait until he was less of a cranky 8 year old. When he gained some confidence he was able to assess the situation and remove himself or communicate to the other dog in an adult-like manner that didn't involve any teeth. I think the last thing you'd want to do is make Aed even more uncomfortable about sharing his space and resources with other dogs by creating a negative environment. I'd like to see the situations avoided entirely. Keeper began getting worse in his guarding because time and time again his fear of the other dog stealing his "stuff" was confirmed. When he realized that the bad thing WASN'T going to happen and that he could communicate effectively with the other dog he began to relax.

 

I, too, wonder what level of guarding is acceptable. I don't mind if Keeper gets a firm correction from another dog if he goes and sticks his nose where it doesn't belong. I think a dog does have the right to express their displeasure, so long as it has been earned. A dog that "owns" the 10 ft circle around a bone is different than one who raises a lip when another dog stands right over them. But everyone has their own standard. Plenty of people cannot stand the thought of a growl or lip curl.

[chene]

Ha! I'm just fine with hearing that Aed's picked an issue where "he'll grow out of it" is actually applicable. Good work, pup. Although, it kind of sounds like the pups who grew out of it were quite young when they first did it and were better by Aed's age. Am I wrong?

 

Kristine, it sounds like you are describing very similar tactics to the ones outlined in Mine!. I am still debating whether I have the resources to use such specific and structured counter-conditioning, as there aren't really any dogs I can just ask to borrow for a half hour to an hour every day or two.

[Root Beer]

If you don't have dogs to borrow, get creative.

 

Years ago when I was desensitizing Speedy to the presence of other dogs, I would go to training class, arrive 15 minutes early, and sit on a bench out side the building. As the dogs from the previous class were leaving, I would feed him every time his eyes landed on a dog. I did this until his eyes lit up with anticipation at the sight of another dog.

 

Perhaps the facility where you did the play groups would allow you to work outside the building at change of classes? The dogs don't have to come right up to you for you to do the "dog appears, treats are forthcoming, dog disappears, treat disappears" protocol.

 

If you can't do it at that facility, perhaps you could park near a Petsmart or some such and do exercises like that there.

 

With resource guarding, I would make a caveat. The dog may outgrow it if there is not too much opportunity to practice the behavior. If the dog is left to his or her own devices and learns that the snarking/growling/etc. works, you may end up with a very difficult long term problem. If relying on "growing out of it", I would definitely employ very careful management to make darn sure there are few opportunities where the dog chooses to engage in the behavior. (It was my choice not to rely on "he'll grow out of it" with Bandit, who really was going through a young adolescent stage, but I really did rely heavily on immediate removal of the opportunity to have whatever triggered the guarding, which was pretty simple, extremely neutral, and felt a lot like letting him "grow out of it").

Mine! is a pretty good resource. I think Leslie McDevitt has gone a good bit further with those principles, but at the very least I would work all of the exercises in the Mine! book, even if modifications had to be made for lack of decoy dogs.

[chene]

There are very few actual dog training facilities here. Classes are done in pet stores, gyms, churches, etc. The socialization one was in various locations of the same pet store. Just wanted to clear that up. I can use a pet store for my purposes though.

 

Anyways, Aed's eyes already do light up when he sees another dog. He loves dogs. Getting to interact and play with ome is its own reward. He's totally fine until he's got food or a toy around them. The problem with just using random dogs instead of one involved in the the training process is that I can't control them to keep Aed under his threshold for a guarding reaction (assuming he had food or a toy during this, since that's the real game changer). So it seems like a risk. I mean, they would (hopefully) be leashed but they could easily run up to him and have their nose on his face before I had time to react. Any ideas regarding that?

[notailabigail]

Hi Chene -

 

First of all, I think I saw that you're in Victoria? I'm in Duncan, so if you ever wanted to meet halfway I'd be happy to provide you with a non-reactive 'decoy' dog to help with Aed's resource guarding! Ryan would happily volunteer himself, I'm sure.

 

Zoey has a tendency to want to RG against other dogs, too. She is fine taking treats with other dogs sitting right beside her, all taking turns getting treats, and I've worked on that one a lot. I don't mind if she tells another dog to back off from something that she is chewing on - and with Abby and Ryan, she barely ever has to since they read each other so well and give each other space when needed.

 

What I deem 'unacceptable' RG is if she tries to guard something that isn't currently in her possession. I've mostly tried to avoid that situation and let her mature, as others have said. When it has happened unexpectedly (she snapped at a visiting dog as he approached and looked at her old bone - which was on the other side of the sliding glass door) I've tried to calmly 'reset' the situation. Both dogs got a cool down, bone went away, then I brought them back for treats sitting side by side comfortably by that sliding door, then bone appeared, extra-yummy treats were given out, bone went away, end of session.

 

The older Zoey has gotten (and she's only a year now) the more she has seemed to learn that over the top guarding isn't necessary to get another dog to give her space when she has something of value. I'm not sure if she learned that on her own, or from being around other 'polite' dogs that respect space. If she had continually had her 'back off' signals ignored by other 'rude' dogs or pups, I'm not sure we would have gotten to where we are now.

 

With toys, she more often than not will try to shove the toy into another dog's mouth to play tug - has Aed had much chance to play with toys around other dogs? When I teach puppy class, I will often throw a ton of toys down in the room so that the puppies can play with them without going into "guard this one and only best toy" mode. If Zoey is playing keep-away with another dog with a toy and goes from relaxed and fun body language to tense body language, I let her. She has met and been around a lot of dogs and I trust her. If she has decided the game is no longer fun and wants to tell the other dog (with tense body, ears low, avoiding eye contact, tail low) to stop chasing her and her toy, then that's her right. If the other dog isn't reading that body language, I'll step in and intervene so that Zoey doesn't feel pushed to escalate her behaviour.

[chene]

It'd be fantastic if you and Ryan would be willing to help sometime! I feel like even just getting that one structured session in with another dog would help Aed a lot.

Aed really hasn't had much chance to play with toys around other dogs. I noticed that when we were at my parents' house - it was clear he'd just never learned how to share before. I wish someone had done that with our puppy class. I get the feeling it would have made a big difference. Oh well, now I know.

[Chan]

Thanks for the responses. Aed has a very good leave it, and doesn't have trouble (outside of class that one night) with dogs near his food/toys/owners unless they actually reach in towards it (not necessarily to take it, maybe just to sniff it, but he doesn't know that). Would treating him whenever another dog gets food help with that? I am also still interested in where to draw the line of what is acceptable? How should he be reacting to a dog trying to take his stuff?

 

 

Chan, that's an excellent point about the tight spaces. I didn't think about that. The x-pen set up is pretty big, but there are a bunch of other dogs in there, and on the outside it is definitely cramped. They offer another type of socialization for dogs of all ages which is a "pack walk", which is a mixture of walking, socializing, and training, and it's not just for puppies. It's only every two weeks but I'm thinking I will try that out, it'll maybe solve some issues both Gentlelake and you have brought up (actually, issues, plenty of people brought up in the other thread too).

 

 

We've been taking Aed just to the off-leash dog park (I know, I know, not always the best behaved dogs, but I've never had a problem at this one so I'm going along with it for now). Is this a bad idea? I was reading through "Mine!" and one of the things that she mentioned is how detrimental a guarding incident can be to the progress. And Aed has definitely had some guarding incidents at the park, just not very serious or intense, like I talked about.

I think having dogs sit with some distance and doling out treats one at a time can be a good exercise. It teaches them to wait patiently for their turn, that you are the one in charge of passing out treats and making sure they get one and also that you won't let another dog take theirs. Of course, you need to know the temperament of the other dog you're working with. A calm and stable adult would be most helpful. I have Rook and my dog sit a foot apart (I'd start farther at the beginning) and I say Rook and give him a treat and then say Faith, and give her a treat. I don't allow him to stick his nose into her face while she is getting the treat and vice versa. At times I have to remind one or the other to be patient because they reach for the other's treat but the quickly remember the fastest way to a treat is to wait nicely.

 

 

I think the "pack walk" sounds like a great idea. A behaviorist explained why she felt like leash walks were a great way to introduce dogs or even to work on aggression issues with two dogs - she told me to imagine spending 30 minutes or so with a stranger or someone I didn't get along well with either in a small area, at a table face to face (awkward and stressful!) or walking through the mall along with them (much better because we could put some distance between us and focus on something else beside the other person. That has stuck with me.

 

 

What is he guarding at the dog park? If you're bringing a toy that he is guarding than I would stop and just toss a stick or something or buy a couple of neutral. boring toys that only come out at the dog park so he doesn't think they are "his". Maybe you could only try to go there during low times when there won't be other dogs there. It may be that you just need to avoid it for awhile if that brings out the RG because otherwise I would think it would be pretty easy to avoid situations that give him opportunity to RG since he is an only dog right?

 

I tried really hard to figure out the multiQuote function to no avail. I hope the above makes sense.

Edited January 16, 2015 by Chan