Starting Foundation Agility Tonight . . .

[gcv-border]

I haven't gotten serious with training Kiefer yet for agility, but we have played a bit with the tunnel (He LOVES and flies through it), and also he can't wait to bang the upside of the teeter down. From the side, he will put his paws up as far as they will reach onto the upside of the teeter so it bangs down, then he stands on it with his front paws waiting for his treat. I didn't really teach him to reach up so far. I just started by asking him to step on the teeter when I held it 4-6" from the ground. He decided by himself that he wanted to reach up really high. Now I have to start training him to get his back feet on it.

[Chan]

Aed will be 10 months in May. Perhaps I'll take a foundation class then. Does anyone have any good online resources for things I can work on at home before then?

 

Agility-u.com has online classes. Tracy Sklenar has a puppy foundation series that is great. She just started the second in the series. It is for pups from 6 months on up. She does do some one jump work but you can do it with a jump bump which is ok for young pups. It is basically a lot of games that set a good foundation for agility. If you just observe the class the price is pretty reasonable. For more $ you video the homework and post for feed back.

 

Cleanrun.com sells a variety of books and videos with foundation skills for puppies also. If you don't have any experience then I'd suggest a video rather than a book.

 

I also highly recommend it! Its tons of fun and quite addicting

 

As far as skills to work on right now....

 

-rear feet awareness (shaping him to back up, put his back feet up on something, lift each back foot independently, put his front feet up on something and pivot around with his back feet.

-core muscle strength ( sitting "pretty" or in the beg position, balancing on something wobbly)

-teach left and right (by teaching them to turn one way and then the other and naming it)

-tugging (when given the command and spit it out when asked, make contact only with buggy - no skin!)

 

You could probably search youtube for videos on how to teach those skills or just put in agility foundation skills and come away with some ideas too.

[Root Beer]

The Fenzi Academy also has an online Intro to Agility class - it is actually starting on February 1st. I've messaged with the instructor and she is super nice!!

Bronze tuition is only $65.00 (that's auditing, but you get all of the lectures and get to read all of the discussions while the class takes place). Silver (get to ask questions) and Gold (full working spot, submit videos, etc.) are more.

I'm taking it at gold with Bandit. I decided that I want to to do more than what I am doing in the regular class, particularly with handling foundation, since I need to use the class time now to work with him on focus. This will be a great winter thing for he and I to do together.

This a sampler video of some of the skills that they work on in the class: (Bandit will be working with no bars, like the one team on the video)

I am in no way affiliated with the Fenzi Academy other than as a satisfied student.

They are offering a ton of cool stuff this session!!

[Shetlander]

I will be interested to hear how your Fenzi class goes, Kristine. I signed up for the shaping class at Bronze level. I can shape but usually "cheat" by starting with lures that I quickly fade. So it is a skill I would like to try strengthening.

 

I took an online clicker based agility foundations course years ago (not Fenzi Academy) when my Lhasa was a puppy and it was great.

[Root Beer]

Someday I want to do the shaping class. It seems like every time it comes around there are a couple of other things I really want to take.

 

If I remember, I will post some of Bandit's videos here. Especially if I get any that are particularly cute or fun.

[Maralynn]

I did the shaping class at the bronze level and LOVED it

[Root Beer]

That's it, I'm taking it next time it comes up!! I'd do it at bronze to have it in my library, but I already have a bunch of classes in my library that I still need to do . . . .

[alligande]

I always keep meaning to try one of the Fenzi classes, but I already have so much training material that I have not worked my way through... One day though

[Shetlander]

I did the shaping class at the bronze level and LOVED it

Oh, good to hear! It will be fun to do some clicker training again, especially since Quinn is still somewhat restricted in his activity. Both dogs will love the extra attention, I know.

[Laurelin]

I've loved the Fenzi classes I've taken.

 

I may have to do bronze with Hank for that Intro to Agility class....

[Root Beer]

That would be fun, Laurelin! I hope you do that!!

[Root Beer]

alligande - if you are ever looking to take one that doesn't have a ton of requirements, you might want to take Obility. I took that with Dean the first time Denise offered it and we had an absolute blast. It is not requirement - heavy and the skills covered are very simple, but they had an amazing effect on his performance capacity!! Although Denise applies the skills to Obedience, I've used them for both Agility and Freestyle. It's a great way to master independent back sides of jumps!!

[alligande]

I will look into it. I might have to look into that intro class at a bronze level, I am sure it will give me some great ideas for my own beginer students.

 

Ohh and I love the idea of independent backside of jumps, right now I have to run like hell to be in the right place and now being in Europe it is going to be a necessary skill.

[Root Beer]

For those who are interested, here are a couple of Bandit's class videos.

 

Starting jumping on the 4 inch jump. We had already done the exercise with the bar on the ground. He is still stepping over at this point, but that's fine - there isn't enough for him to even want to hop! I am in no hurry whatsoever with his jumping. He's not even a year old yet.

 

And he knocked his first bar. It's a milestone.

 

 

One skill I had badly neglected was the stay. Bandit, in typical puppy fashion, was quite the energetic guy, always ready to spring out of whatever position I put him in. I didn't really get past the first steps of stay training, so we are working on it now in the context of this class. I think it's perfect. I find that Bandit learns best when he sees a reason to do something. In the process of learning skills, he sees much more reason than when I'm just standing around with treats!!

 

Here we are working stays in the context of the call to heel/side exercise. I am using the mat right now because it makes the most sense to both of us (with our instructor's blessing!!)

 

Our latest stay video - I had to work on keeping my "stay" cue pleasant. "I don't think you're actually going to do it" was coming through before!!

 

 

I am loving doing this in babysteps!!! The instructor is awesome, too!!

[mum24dog]

I'm not sure what you're trying to achieve by having him step over a bar while he isn't looking where he is going and in such a confined space. It's the complete opposite of how I would start jump training.

 

I want speed and enthusiasm coupled with forward impetus and a good jumping style from day 1.

 

Jumps should be incidental though. Everything a dog needs to be able to do it can learn on the flat and then it's a doddle introducing height.

[Root Beer]

I get it - lots of different ways that different people use. The idea of this exercise is to build value into the jump, and - I believe - to help him be aware of his own body when he does actually start the jumping. The bar will be raised gradually to give him a chance to develop the muscle needed to jump consistently at full height, and we won't be hurrying that process.

 

This is the method that I used with Tessa when we took her jumping class and I have been 100% pleased with the results. I still use this particular exercise with her (sparingly) to help maintain strength.

 

In his real-life class he is doing handling stuff on the flat. We did an exercises with front crosses the other night and he rocked it! Wish I had a video of that - he was a little superstar! So, yes, he is experiencing motion with the stantions. Eventually, when we bring actual jumping into that, he should get it pretty quickly. But, before I ever ask for that, he will have learned the mechanics and built the strength on the one jump.

 

As for the size of my space - it was enough for this exercise. My yard is covered in ice at the moment, but I have a room that is a little bigger, and we will be moving out there now that we are going to be doing the call to heel exercise with the jump (in Bandit's case, with the ground bar).

 

Unfortunately, a lot of the detailed handling that we are covering in the online class is not being covered in my live class, so I need to utilize the space that I have in my own home to make sure these details don't get skipped. I would love it if I could do it outside, but right now frozen Pennsylvania winter is not making that possible. By late April, we should be out there, running and doing lots of cool handling on the flat. Maybe sooner if phil the groundhog is as full of it as I keep saying he is.

[Shetlander]

There are multiple ways to train agility and foundation work can often be done in small places.

[d112358]

I get it - lots of different ways that different people use. The idea of this exercise is to build value into the jump, and - I believe - to help him be aware of his own body when he does actually start the jumping. The bar will be raised gradually to give him a chance to develop the muscle needed to jump consistently at full height, and we won't be hurrying that process.

 

This is the method that I used with Tessa when we took her jumping class and I have been 100% pleased with the results. I still use this particular exercise with her (sparingly) to help maintain strength.

 

This is similar to an exercise I do to start jumpwork with my dogs, but I keep my focal point firmly on the landing side and prioritize getting a treat out before the head-check to keep the dog's focus forward.

[Laurelin]

It is interesting! I am in the online class you are (but not at posting level. Admittedly stalking your posts haha).

 

We taught my previous dogs to jump very differently- ala race to reward type stuff. My trainer in RL as well as the online class are opting to do this version of jump training to start though- shaping them going over the jump. It's interesting. I had already started Hank the other way but he's getting the hang of this way too. I have a feeling he's going to need more work collecting vs anything at any rate.

[mum24dog]

 

This is similar to an exercise I do to start jumpwork with my dogs, but I keep my focal point firmly on the landing side and prioritize getting a treat out before the head-check to keep the dog's focus forward.

This was one of my concerns about the limited space as it makes it difficult to reward forward. I get the impression that Bandit's attention is on Kristine and he isn't aware of what he is doing. Early days though.

 

There are bits of proprioception work that I will do indoors but pre jumping is left until the ground outside will stand the extra foot traffic. And we are doing driving to a target in the hall so I don't rule out some inside work.

 

Out of our 7 dogs we've trained in agility only 2 have needed encouragement to value jumping. I've rather had the opposite problem - flying over the jumps has been just too rewarding, but I'd rather deal with that than have to speed up a dog that has been started off slowly.

[Root Beer]

This was one of my concerns about the limited space as it makes it difficult to reward forward. I get the impression that Bandit's attention is on Kristine and he isn't aware of what he is doing. Early days though.

 

 

Yeeeeaah . . . you don't know Bandit. Believe me - he knows exactly what he's doing. He has a really bizarre learning style. It can seem like his head isn't with you at all and then we come back next session and it turns out he was paying closer attention than I ever would have thought possible. It has taken a lot of getting used to, but I have his number now. Yes, his attention was on me - but it was also on the jump and every tiny little thing he was doing with it. He really doesn't miss much of anything.

 

As far as speed goes, I'm not concerned. He is going to be plenty fast.

[mum24dog]

Well it's always been my e experience that a clicker trained dog consolidates learning in the interval between training sessions.

 

You've posted several times about how keen and full of drive he is which is why I was surprised that you would feel the need to manage him so closely. I want extension and collection from a dog so that's what is trained from the start and long before my dog ever sees a pole. Stepping over a pole doesn't teach anything I want from a dog.

 

I very much believe in not rushing training but obviously in a different way from you.

 

Tbh I rarely use a clicker in agility training as it isn't needed.

[Root Beer]

My goal here is not to manage him closely. I can see how it would look that way, but that really isn't the goal.

 

What do I want from him learning to step over the pole? To be aware of the jump itself - that it is something he should pay mind to. That he should be aware of his body and the way that he is moving it as he goes over. I see so many drivey Border Collies at trials demolishing jumps - it's like they have no concept of where their bodies are in space as they go flying. I want him to be a fast jumper, but I also want him to be a smart jumper. I want him to know how to get himself over the jump cleanly, no matter what the approach.

 

Also, I like that he is getting the experience of knocking that very low bar. Let him learn now that a bar falling is nothing. It happens. It will happen. It's no big deal. The bar is something he needs to be mindful of, but the world won't come crashing down if the bar does. This is a great opportunity for him to learn that.

 

Bandit is learning extension and collection in his live Agility class. Like I said, we did an exercise with 8 jumps and we ran a pattern where he was going through the stantions as I handled him through, including front crosses. He got to have the experience of running with extension and collection. We will be doing tons more of that, with the bars on the ground.

 

At the same time, this exercise will be teaching him the mechanics of jumping. Like I said before, this is something that Tessa did and I absolutely love her jumping skills. Jumping is actually her strength in our Agility - she likes it the best, it is her best skill, and usually we pick up whatever speed we get in the jumping sections of the courses, as long as I handle them well. I was delighted when I saw that the instructor was taking this approach in the online course.

 

It makes sense to me, especially with a baby dog like Bandit, to do an exercise like this where he gets to think about his interaction with the jump and about his body, while he is actually not in motion. Put it together, and I think we are going to have an awesome final package.

 

I use clickers heavily in the early stages of Agility training. Once the dog is fluent, I rarely use it, unless I need to sharpen up a precision skill. But to introduce concepts, I do use it, and use it a lot. The last time I used a clicker in Tessa's Agility class, it was to get the instructor to help me get the timing on a handling maneuver (I have her click when I am supposed to be executing the handling so I learn the timing, and it works really well for me). But Bandit is just starting, so lots of clicks.

Bandit and I are enjoying this process, both the work we are doing in our live class and in the online class. Last night I actually had to make myself stop and do a Freestyle training session!! And what did we end up doing at the end? Toe boards! But we did do some platform work and some other Freestyle stuff first.

 

I think we are on a good path, and I see a great deal of value in this exercise.

[Jumpin Boots]

Kristine-

 

I too have done similar one jump work; both with more forward focus than you are using and with wrapping back to the bar working on hind end jump awareness; maybe it's more of an exercise on this side of the pond

 

You may be aware of this, but watching your second video; when you give Bandit his verbal release cue it appears that you have hand movement as well. I can't tell if you are meaning to do this on purpose or if you are following up with hand movement, but they are very close. At the 40 second point or so (I think), you bring your hand down and start to move it forward, much like when you have given the verbal release and he broke his wait. I think he's fishing for what is the actual release command. I have found Timber (my first working dog too) to be a lot less forgiving on accidental physical motion like this. He will pick up my movement as a command and carry greater value in it than in the verbal, especially when starting out.

 

It's great you are having so much fun working with Bandit, he seems very eager and excited to play with you

[Root Beer]

I'm thinking this may also look different when he is actually jumping. I won't always be sitting on the floor next to him, either, and that will change the picture to some extent.

 

It is very interesting to hear the differences in approach to jump training. We have certainly come a long way from setting up a jump grid and then running the dog up and down it on leash!

 

Yes, I need to be far more aware of my hand movement. Tessa is super forgiving with stuff like that. Bandit probably won't be. That's why when he broke when I set my hand but hadn't released, I did re-set him instead of just going ahead with the exercise. I probably would have let it go with Tessa, and then worked the stay with the hand flopping around afterward. But I know that I need to be more consistent with Bandit. That was when I became aware that I was releasing him to the hand movement just as much as the verbal, so I need to watch that.

 

In the video with the stays, I see that he is very attentive and trying to really figure out what the game is. I love seeing that in him. I value that in a dog more than almost anything. Tessa is like that and playing Agility with her has been a pleasure. I was hoping he would be the same, and it seems he will be. He still has a lot of "puppy brain", but I'm seeing more and more engagement and effort on his part recently.