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What behaviors do you train after your agility runs (at shows)?

 

Today, after a perfect run and crossing the finish, sweetie-pie grabbed the leash from a chair and went for a run. And he ran and ran and ran. And ran some more until the judge finally grabbed him. As the very understanding judge said, he didn't want the fun to end. He is 2.5 years old in his first full show season, just now starting to move from novice to open.

 

He is very very aroused after his runs and getting the slip lead over his head has always been a challenge. Today, he was wearing a collar, so there was something to grab. He had been leaping onto my leg after a run and I haven't really discouraged this because I feared that he would replace that behavior with something...worse. And he couldn't go anywhere, if he was attached to me.

 

Although he is a tugging fool, I can't bring tug toys into the ring (except for the leash) and once I leash him, he doesn't want to tug anymore, so I have always rewarded with food.

 

This can't happen again.

 

Suggestions?

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Off the top of my head, teach him to jump into your arms? Teach him to jam his head through an open slip lead himself with a reward of tug? Teach him to wrap around your legs and jam his head between your legs then you release, and eventually you can slip the lead out and release to leap in the air?

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As far as the slip lead goes, have you tried teaching him to stick his head through it as a trick? If so, you could practice tossing treats away and having him run to you to get his head through it.

 

I know that might not help if he is super excited, but at least it is a piece that might make the overall picture a bit easier for you.

 

As I have had the world's most mellow Agility dogs thus far, I'm no help with your big question. Maddie used to lay down and roll on her side after her runs (because she didn't want to leave the ring), Dean liked to heel, Tessa just waggles her tail at me while I proclaim her vehemently a "good girlie"!

 

I may be looking at any advice that others have for you when it's Bandit's turn . . . And I will definitely be teaching him to put his head through a martingale or slip lead as a trick!!

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I second the idea of teaching dogs to put their heads through a slip lead. - adding an approriate command (I use 'lead on') so he knows what you are asking...

 

Also when training it make sure that putting on the leash doesn't always mean the end of his fun. So initially once he has put his head through and he can feel the leash on his neck, take it off again and play some more. Repeat - sometimes ending the play session, sometimes releasing immediately and letting him play a bit more - but always rewarding with calm positive words (and food/toy treats if necessary). - I don't let a dog play/pull when he is on his leash..so I always take it off before I let him play.

 

ETA I've also trained it with dogs who are waiting at the back door to go out and play. With the door closed, ask him to put his head through the slip leash. Open the door and walk him (calmly) outside on the leash. Only then let the dog loose to play. He quickly learns that putting his head through the lead (and not pulling) is VERY rewarding.

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I ask my girl to jump into my arms. Then she knows that it's time to run back to her crate for a timbit (her favourite!). She has a leash up cue (gimme yo' face!) that she has to offer before we leave to the crate, then she runs full steam ahead 'til she's crated up. It's pretty cute. We've done a lot of work on crate games and other impulse control games, trained lots of obedience and she has learned to work through her arousal. A lot of the self control comes with age and maturity.

 

Were I in your situation, I'd use a target behaviour after a run (like a head through a slip leash) and condition the hell out of it to be the best thing ever. Big changes may not happen overnight, but it should put you on the right track.

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I've played with him targetting the leash and it back-fired big time. He arrived at the leash before I did and instead of waiting for me to leash him, he grabbed it and went for a run. It seems like I need to add a sit or a down in there, or as rushdoggie suggested having him run between my legs before the leashing. I think that it is better for him to target me rather than the leash as the initial step in the behavior chain.

 

He is very fast and his run times are 25-35 seconds, so I am dealing with a very adrenalized dog whose fun abruptly ends.

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Lots of training exercises backfire when you first try them. That shouldn't be cause for giving up. Practice is what makes perfect. ;)

 

You might want to start training this behavior in less highly charged places, like in your living room in quiet moment, then advance to increasingly more difficult situations.

 

Also, are you asking him to target the leash on the ground, or when it's in your hand? If you want him to put his head through the loop, I think holding the leash in your hand for him to target at first might yield better results.

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I think, were I do doing it, to maintain fast and enthusiastic wrap and head between legs I would release immediately to tug and drop the leash while he did it when I trained it. I would then fade the over the top tugging to a small tug then a release to something else once he was happily and enthusiastically diving between my legs.

 

Otherwise, he might see it as a "end the fun" thing and avoid it.

 

Not a quick fix for sure.

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What about a splat down on the leash? If he is already putting the leash in his mouth, you could train the behavior on something else (like a towel) and later transfer it.

 

If you are doing AKC or USDAA Agility, aren't you training some kind of wait on the table? He has to go from revv'ed to still for that. So, it could be the same thing, just at the end of the run and with the leash instead of the table.

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Fun topic. Here is my two cents - since I have a very fast dog too (one jumpers run was 17 seconds, but he usually will run a JWW in less than 30 sec and a standard in less than 40 seconds.) He gets to the final obstacle WAY before I do. I don't remember training him to do anything at the end, but he seems to know what the final obstacle is (maybe because I stop running once he has completed it, and he is very, very attuned to my movement), and he (usually) runs back to me for a happy dance - at which point I can grab his collar.

 

First, be thankful that he hasn't decided to run out of the ring after his run. That is a possible DQ, depending on venue.

 

IMHO, I don't see anything wrong with his grabbing his leash, AS LONG AS he runs it back to you for you to slip it over his head. This could be a chain of behaviors to try and train. And if he is amped up, I wouldn't necessarily be trying to get him to calm down right away (if he is leashed by now). Why stop the fun? I would be still keeping him excited, and focused on you, as you exit the ring and run to the place where you positioned his toy or treats for his reward. Keep the fun game going with him so he doesn't feel that the fun is over and he has to take things into his own hands (or mouth, as the case may be) to extend the fun. Reward him and gradually bring the energy down as you walk him to cool him down and/or back to his crate. [i wouldn't be walking him back to his crate immediately after a run. First, it is really an end to the fun, and second, his muscles need time to cool down.]

 

To do the above would require some prior planning on your part. Where do I want to put the toy/treats so I can get to them quickly, but also where they are out of the way of other dogs/people so that your post-run party doesn't bother anyone else? Which way do I want to go after that? My agility instructor suggests that the 10 -30 second 'party' that most people do after a run is not enough. She would walk her dogs around for 5-10 minutes after a run with lots of praise and treats. One-on-one time for the dog.

 

Also, what venue are you running that allows tugging after a run - while still in the ring? I thought that was frowned upon in AKC - and was a possible reason for a DQ? Not sure if I have that right. I have always been told that any tugging should be taken away from the ring so as not to distract any other dogs that may be running.

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Do you think you could proof his retrieve enough to use it with the leash? He's already halfway there with grabbing it and running around....

 

If you don't want him getting to the leash before you, you could do basic hand targeting - somehow a 'touch' still registers with my dog when he's too high to respond to anything else.

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The leashes are usually placed on chairs or hung on posts near the out gate. They are never on the ground.

The leash was on a chair on Sunday. After we crossed the finish, I saw him targetting the leash and didn't try to stop him because i figured that he would grab it and present it for a tug.

I need to delay him in some way so I can get to the leash first

Downing him seems unfair.

I've also been thinking about a simple handtouch.

I'm primarily interested in USDAA, but we were at AKC. Luckily the ring was very well-fenced and he was wearing a collar. People do tug in the ring at USDAA.

I just need to get the leash on him and get him out of the ring quickly without him running off. Then we can have our party.

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Is there no one you could ask to hold your lead and/or toy?

 

Our dog doesn't care about the lead but will go in search of his toy if he thinks he knows where it is, or in search of someone else's if he sees it put down, even a visit to the pet stall on occasion. He has even left the ring in a Champ class on a mission. He isn't inexperienced, just several sandwiches short of a picnic.

 

Starts and finishes tend to be very crowded and he is not great with strange dogs or people so it is important that he is under control at the end of his run.

 

Our routine is that I hold his stuff while he runs and he comes to find me when he's finished. He sits by me until my daughter catches up with him and rewards him. If I'm not around there are always others able to take my place. He doesn't need a reward per se, just the routine.

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Tugging in the ring is allowed in AKC and USDAA, as long as its on a leash, not a "toy". My golden was trained to get her leash and bring it to me for a game of tug. We practiced at home and on the field during classes. It is actually quite handy because at practice if we ended away from where we started I could send her for her leash. It was a big game for her. If she reached the chair ahead of me she would grab the leash and head to me with it, if it was in a bucket she waited beside it and I would get the leash and present it for a tug. Then, I would slip it over her head or clip the leash on and we would tug as we exited the ring. It is a good way to release some of that energy after a run instead of coming to a grinding halt. I will admit there were a couple of times the leash was put on the ground (USDAA trial) before the last jump and she spotted it and bypassed the last jump. So, be sure that when you practice "get your leash" that you proof it so that your pup only gets the leash on command.

My plan with my BC puppy is to have him jump in my arms. I have seen people whose dogs jump up on their legs and they kind of scruff their neck in play - this would allow you to get a hold of your dog to get the leash on as well.

Good luck finding an end behavior that works for you. If you start implementing whatever you choose in your daily practice it shouldn't take long for it to become a habit, even when he's highly aroused.

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My plan with Rievaulx was to have him jump into my arms, but once I realized he was going to be a giant, 5ft 2" me was not going to catch a 55lb border collie I had to abandon that fantasy. Our end behaviour was not trained it is just the way we have always celebrated training sequences and runs, when I stop he does, I usually open my arms and tell him he is the best most amazing boy, and he comes bouncing and leaping at me, now NADAC judges have been known to find our behavior a little scary, but it is how we party, NADAC does not allow any tugging in the ring and so we developed this personal party in a ring performance as by the time we got to our toy/food the special moment had passed. Once we have had our few seconds of silly joy, he is with me and easy to leash.

I think this works as we do play together often without toys.

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This ^^^ is what I was indicating in my previous post (#12) when I said that we 'partied' in the ring. Alligande explained better than I. It is not a 'stop everything for 5-10 seconds type of party. It is just a run to me and then I tell you what an awesome puppy you are in a high baby voice while we continue to move out of the ring (stopping for the leash first). The entire time is verbal praise in a high voice. OK, I may appear to be a demented old lady, but it works for me and my dog. I have never had him run off.

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We have made people laugh on many occasions with our celebrations, I love running with him so much it is just a natural extension of the fun I am having with him, luckily he seems to have as much fun as me!

 

This ^^^ is what I was indicating in my previous post (#12) when I said that we 'partied' in the ring. Alligande explained better than I. It is not a 'stop everything for 5-10 seconds type of party. It is just a run to me and then I tell you what an awesome puppy you are in a high baby voice while we continue to move out of the ring (stopping for the leash first). The entire time is verbal praise in a high voice. OK, I may appear to be a demented old lady, but it works for me and my dog. I have never had him run off.

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That is pretty much how I do with my two dogs, my hound mix is/was a bit more tempted to attacks of the "weeeeee". I praise with high pitched voice and sort of hop/slow-jog to the leash area while slapping my waist/side on whichever side he or she is on. That usually works in getting the dog to heel while looking at me all pleased with themselves. Before we know it, I have the leash and collar in hand and clasped on.

This ^^^ is what I was indicating in my previous post (#12) when I said that we 'partied' in the ring. Alligande explained better than I. It is not a 'stop everything for 5-10 seconds type of party. It is just a run to me and then I tell you what an awesome puppy you are in a high baby voice while we continue to move out of the ring (stopping for the leash first). The entire time is verbal praise in a high voice. OK, I may appear to be a demented old lady, but it works for me and my dog. I have never had him run off.

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I'd work more on the grabbing the leash and bringing it to you in a less excited environment and work up to the actual excitement and arousal of a trial. It can help to train them to put their front paws on you so it doesn't turn into a game of you lunging down for it and them dancing away. My girl is small so I'm planning to just ask her to jump into my arms, that's what I do for disc.

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I watched dog after dog after dog at a recent trial: leash was put on the ground just past the last jump. Dogs see the leash, so focused on it, that bars came down - with regularlity.

 

I have two current BCs that do agility.

The little one (30 pounds) jumps into my arms. We both love this!

 

The bigger one (40 pounds, who doesn't like to be held) can be a bit crazed at the end of runs. Because we do NADAC, he never as much as looks at the leash (and wouldn't be allowed to tug until out of the ring, and wouldn't likely do it anyway).

 

He will come at me with mouth open - not biting at all, just bumping way too hard. So - our default is DOWN. That works great for USDAA pairs also. It is not "unfair" - on the other hand, it gives him a brief chance to regain his brain, let the adrenaline start to decline, me to pick up the leash - and then he is fine. His down, in this case, lasts about two seconds.

 

And if my dog wouldn't come when I called, we wouldn't be in the ring. Period. I don't do AKC, but am always amazed at competitors who insist - and now I think AKC does too - that the ring be securely fenced. 99% of the times, there aren't enough spectator dogs around to cause problems. We train all sorts of agility moves - but cannot train a reliable recall? Harumph!

 

Off my soapbox. For now.

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Fencing 10+ rings isn't a practical option in the UK and generally only small non KC shows and those indoors will have fencing. Indoors space is at a premium and there is highly unlikely to be any gap between rings or much room for queuing so fencing is a necessity, but at an outdoor KC show you would normally have just a rope around the ring.

 

People train for the situation they will meet and very few dogs leave the ring, and of those who do it's mostly newbies. I would worry that fencing would encourage more people to enter whose dogs really shouldn't be there.

 

We had to work very hard with our collie that doesn't like strange dogs or people knowing that there would be no safety net.

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And if my dog wouldn't come when I called, we wouldn't be in the ring. Period. I don't do AKC, but am always amazed at competitors who insist - and now I think AKC does too - that the ring be securely fenced. 99% of the times, there aren't enough spectator dogs around to cause problems.

I agree about a reliable recall. Extremely important. I have a friend with a Welshie that can no longer do agility because she was so freaked about her dog taking off that she would only enter indoor, and fenced, trials. (She had good cause to be cautious unfortunately.) She finally became so frustrated at the few trials (and training fields) where her dog could run that she no longer does agility.

 

This past weekend at a pre-trial practice match, I saw a young dog jump the ring fencing (a nominal 18" high) to go visit another dog in the 2nd ring. Very few other dogs around. I think some dogs will run around/jump out regardless of the # of dogs around.

 

Again, I agree with training a reliable recall. It solves/prevents so many problems.

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Thanks for your input everyone.

I will not be training the dog to target the leash. I received some very bad advice from a local competitor in this regard and it caused a big mess. The reinforcement history is just too high for me to re-train and leash targetting can cause other problems as well. Instead the dog will be targetting me with a simple nose to hand touch--the first behavior in a chain that I am currently heavily reinforcing,

 

Over the years (here in the US), I've heard all sorts of interesting reasons for not fencing (or poor fencing) of agility rings at trials and at agility schools. In the end, dogs will be dogs,and shit happens. Yes, good fencing may encourage some dogs to train/compete in agility before they are "ready", it also prevents dogs from running off and getting lost, getting smashed by cars, and fighting with each other. If a fence can prevent one accident from occuring, then it is silly not to have it.

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