D'Elle Posted December 28, 2014 Report Share Posted December 28, 2014 I wish I could afford to feed my dogs that well. I can't afford to feed myself only natural and organic food, although if I could, that is all that I or my animals would eat. I wish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simba Posted December 28, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 28, 2014 I don't care about unnatural or inorganic food. Heck, I eat kidney beans and lots of other things which without processing would kill me, or stuff heavily altered by breeding- like sweetcorn and orange carrots. I do try to eat vegetables, pulses, and that sort of thing though. I figure most dog food is something the same- the bits dogs would eat anyway if they were eating naturally as domesticated animals, just not rotting, and someone tried to make it nutritionally balanced. A dog fed Alpo or Old Roy is probably getting better nutrition than the majority of spoiled pet dogs from a hundred years ago, when you read contemporary accounts of dog care, let alone whatever you're feeding. Be happy, D'Elle! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cass C Posted December 28, 2014 Report Share Posted December 28, 2014 When Lyka first started having stomach issues we could have sworn it was an illness because of how quickly it came on. We spent a ton of money trying different foods to figure out what she was allergic to. It ended up being rice and wheat. Which is funny because the vet had been telling us to feed her rice and boiled chicken to calm her stomach. All the while making the issue worse. We ended up feeding her Merrick grain free for a long time, but switched to Grandma Z's (a local grain free brand). It was about $10 cheaper a bag. I tried Kirkland Grain Free, as it is about $20 less a bag, but neither of my dogs would eat it. I would recommend Merrick for someone trying to rule out an allergy to a specific meat source, but it is rather expensive. Here I was paying $60 for I believe a 25lbs bag. I'm considering switching to a raw diet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
borasaurus Posted December 28, 2014 Report Share Posted December 28, 2014 Oh I fed Kieran Merrick for a bit! But it didn't really help with his gas. Luckily, there's a pet food store here that sells it for $40. I don't think I would buy it if it were $60 . How'd you find out what her allergies were? I think it might be some preservative in dry food that gives Kieran problems because he's been doing way better on a home made diet. I want to try doing raw though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gideon's girl Posted December 28, 2014 Report Share Posted December 28, 2014 I probably wouldn't be feeding this well if it weren't for Micah. He has multiple food allergies and doesn't do well on normal amounts of carbs either, so he gets high protein(not chicken, beef, or fish)kibble and then some raw to boost the protein even more. Angel can't have chicken either, but she can handle just about anything else, and Gideon can eat anything. But we have so many rejects from Micah that they both get the expensive kibble and some raw too. I must admit that learning to deal with Micah's issues has made me somewhat of a dog food snob. I've learned more than I ever would otherwise have wanted to know about what goes into dog food and the shady practices of some companies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cass C Posted December 28, 2014 Report Share Posted December 28, 2014 It was a pain we switched to a food with a novel protein (buffalo) and something we knew she was alright with which ended up being sweet potato. After her stomach issues stopped we started slowly adding things. We would give her a little food with a only one questionable ingredient like chicken. By trial and error we found out rice went right through her and wheat caused a very upset stomach. We even tried different types of rice and wheat and it all caused issues. It wasn't a cheap experiment process, but it was cheaper than what the vet wanted to charge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
borasaurus Posted December 29, 2014 Report Share Posted December 29, 2014 I'm trying to go through that process, too, which the unique protein sources and diet restrictions. The vet suggested they could try this method where they inject the dog with a little bit of common allergens in a row of spots and see which ones cause a reaction. I'm hoping to just find what works for Kieran if it's a food issue. I had brown rice in his food for a little, but that came out in his stool, so I switched to oats. When we went for his checkup, they suggested trying kangaroo...it's so expensive though - like $35 for a tub that only lasts 4-6 meals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gideon's girl Posted December 29, 2014 Report Share Posted December 29, 2014 I've done the elimination diet with Micah for the last 2 years plus a bit and I'm still finding things he can't eat. Maybe try goat instead of kangaroo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted December 29, 2014 Report Share Posted December 29, 2014 Unless cost is a real issue, I think I'd stick with Royal Canin. If it works, it works, and that's what matters. I get wanting to be able to rotate, but it's not imperative that you do that if it turns out that all your dog can tolerate is the RC. Purina also makes medical diets and might have something formulated similarly to the RC that might work. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentleLake Posted December 29, 2014 Report Share Posted December 29, 2014 The vet suggested they could try this method where they inject the dog with a little bit of common allergens in a row of spots and see which ones cause a reaction. I'm pretty sure that only works with environmental allergens, not foods. My own allergist has told me there's no good way to test for food allergies besides elimination. There is a NutriScan test that Dr. Jean Dodds doestest for food sensitivities and intolerances (true food allergies are rare). It's not a skin patch test, rather a cheek swab. http://www.nutriscan.org/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urge to herd Posted December 29, 2014 Report Share Posted December 29, 2014 It might be worth it to get the skin allergen testing done. Had it done on Itchy Shoshone and she turned out to be allergic to wool, Johnson grass - which there is a lot of around here, no way to control the pollen - and mosquito bites. Allergens tend to have a 'bucket overflow' effect. Each exposure to an allergen causes an allergic reaction. If a dog, (or human) is only exposed to one allergen, the reaction tends to be less then if they are exposed to several allergens all at once. If he's allergic to environmental stuff, then those allergens will be increasing the overall load and maybe making him worse. I got rid of 2 wool blankets and a wool rug when Shonie had her tests and it helped a bit. Dust mite allergy is common, if he's allergic to them you might be able to take some steps to control the mites, and help him a bit that way. If he doesn't show any response to the common allergens, then that at least is more information for you. And I'm with Julie about the RC. With a dog who is so sensitive, go with what works and don't worry so much about rotating food. Ruth and SuperGibbs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted December 29, 2014 Report Share Posted December 29, 2014 Unless cost is a real issue, I think I'd stick with Royal Canin. If it works, it works, and that's what matters. I get wanting to be able to rotate, but it's not imperative that you do that if it turns out that all your dog can tolerate is the RC. Purina also makes medical diets and might have something formulated similarly to the RC that might work. J. This. And you could add some supplemental raw of types that he can handle if you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gideon's girl Posted December 29, 2014 Report Share Posted December 29, 2014 Food allergy tests are notoriously unreliable, giving both false positives and false negatives. If you go to the website of ANY of the companies that put out food allergy tests, their own website will tell you the best way to test for food allergens is an elimination diet. The tests test for one particular type of immune response, but dogs actually have a few different immune responses and there are other things that can trigger the one that is tested for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentleLake Posted December 29, 2014 Report Share Posted December 29, 2014 What Ruth says is correct. Identifying and eliminating or treating for environmental allergies could be very helpful. I once had a dog with severe allergies to grasses and fall pollens and we did desensitization shots. You can do the shots at home to lower the cost. They weren't 100% for him; he still had some reaction, but after several years of shots we were able to stop them when his reactions had become quite mild. I'm with the rest in sticking with Royal Canin if that's what works for you. And with supplementing with some raw if you want to. If you do that, though, you should try to make sure it's balanced and not just throw a bunch of meat on top of the kibble. And I, too, am leery of the food allergy tests. Honestly I'm surprised that Dr. Dodds is doing them now, so it makes me wonder if they've developed a somewhat better test. But my own allergist has told me the food tests aren't reliable -- though I haven't talked to her about the type that Dodds does. Will do that the next time I see her. ETA: The NutriScan test is advertized as a "sensitivity and intolerance test". Perhaps that's what would make the difference, not claiming it's an allergy test. Now I wonder if it's reliable in that regard, and will still ask my allergist about it when I see her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
borasaurus Posted December 29, 2014 Report Share Posted December 29, 2014 Yea, she said if he doesn't respond to the food trial, then we could move on to the shots. But he's pretty comfortable on Temaril-P, so she said he can do that long term. It's frustrating because this is the second food trial (new vet); he didn't show any change with the first one even with the restricted diet. I've never tried RC. Have people had good results with that one? None of his vets have ever suggested it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andie182 Posted December 31, 2014 Report Share Posted December 31, 2014 I have an English Pointer that was bitten by a rattlesnake on his first time out on a hunt. We nursed him through that but then he developed severe, severe allergies. I tried every food available, including raw, tried Benadryl on a daily basis, numerous topical treatments. The vet that I had at the time, refused to give him steroid treatments which angered me and made me search for a new vet- the dog literally looked like he had mange, his ears were scabbed and thickened and you couldn't touch them, he spent his entire existence scratching some part of his body or another. I researched treatments and came across the drug "Atopica" or cyclosporine. It's the same drug that organ transplant patients are put on to keep them from rejecting the organ; an immune system modulator. That's when I started calling and interviewing vets to see how open they would be to actually treating my dog. The vet that I have now was like "absolutely, that's my go to drug of choice for this." Well, one round of antibiotics to take care of secondary infections and 2 months on the cyclosporine and my dog is a new dog!! His hair has grown back, his ears are soft, supple and normal and he is happy and loving life!!! He has been on the cyclosporine for 2 years now and is down to 3 doses/week and doing better than he ever has!!! I'm not sure if it would work on digestive issues or that I would medicate just a mild allergy like that but for anyone dealing with severe allergies with skin reactions, I would highly recommend it!!! It is a little on the spendy side, though. My BC girl has had some issues with diarrhea and after making sure that it wasn't coccidia or giardia or some other parasite, I'm convinced that it is totally stress related- she is definitely a Type A personality!!! After researching that, I have put her on Iams Low Residue dog food with incredible results!!! I know, I know all the bad publicity about Iams but she has not had a loose stool since I put her on it and I believe in the science that I have read that is behind it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gideon's girl Posted December 31, 2014 Report Share Posted December 31, 2014 The fact that a low residue diet worked makes me wonder if she has IBD or something like that going on. Usually, if it's just stress, adding fiber helps, because it slows passage through the large intestine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andie182 Posted January 1, 2015 Report Share Posted January 1, 2015 When I researched the Iams food, I discovered that it has beet pulp for fiber and a prebiotic that the gut flora are supposed to love. I am thinking that it works so well because of those two factors? I am hoping, anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simba Posted January 1, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2015 The only grain or starch I've tried her that she seems to react to is corn (though it was such a mild reaction I could have been imagining it). I haven't tried her with wheat by itself. Barley, oats, rice, and potatoes she can have with absolutely no problems, along with fish and most vegetables. This is a dog who thinks steamed kale is a delicious treat. So I thought today I might have a look at vegetarian dog foods, although I am usually fairly opposed to vegetarian dogs (simply on the grounds that something should be done with the meat that's still useful but not 'nice' enough for humans). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
borasaurus Posted January 1, 2015 Report Share Posted January 1, 2015 This is a dog who thinks steamed kale is a delicious treat. This made me laugh because Kieran loves plain lettuce as a treat. I don't even like plain vegetables! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simba Posted January 1, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2015 I had decided it might be nice in the microwave. I like kale, and this was horrible. So, having warned her it was horrible, I let her try a bit. She ate the bowl making hideous 'aargh I am a satisfied carnivore' noises. This is the same dog who will rip through an entire bag of shopping on a table (said bag also contains a block of cheese) to get to the raw carrots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urge to herd Posted January 1, 2015 Report Share Posted January 1, 2015 Buzz loved cucumber. He'd stop eating his dinner if I offered him a chunk of it. I had to down-stay him outside the kitchen when I made salad. Gibbs stole a quarter of an apple from me yesterday morning. Back to the Institute for Bad Border Collies for a refresher course. Ruth and SuperGibbs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
borasaurus Posted January 1, 2015 Report Share Posted January 1, 2015 I had to down-stay him outside the kitchen when I made salad. Gibbs stole a quarter of an apple from me yesterday morning. Back to the Institute for Bad Border Collies for a refresher course. That's too funny! We have a tangerine tree out back and when Kieran got a taste of tangerine from my dad, he would start going out during the day and sunning himself next to the tree until my dad came home from work. He took it upon himself to chase all the squirrels away so that he might get more tangerines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simba Posted January 1, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2015 Although, come to think of it, if there's chicken meal in the 'no chicken meal' dog food, grains in the 'no grain' dog food, and unlabelled meats in all kinds of pet foods, 'vegetarian' label food will probably be no good to me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
borasaurus Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 Yea...it's unfortunate. One of the many reasons why I prefer to make it. It's like eating out - you don't really know what's in the recipe regardless of what they say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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