Jump to content
BC Boards
Sign in to follow this  
kingfisher7151

HD Genetics

Recommended Posts

I'm completely devastated. Keeper's littermate was just diagnosed with HD at 8 months of age. They're waiting to see if he's a candidate for a TPO.

 

He must have been so incredibly severe for it to be diagnosed so young. Their parents are clear, and yet this pup was afflicted. He's the only one out of a litter of 9 so far, and the mom's previous litter was also clear. But what does that mean for Keeper? How likely is it that he'll also be afflicted? I was planning on doing hip x-rays once he's full grown, but does this mean that I should have him checked sooner? I haven't noticed any concerning symptoms leading me to think he's afflicted. He is a little floppy in his hind end at occasional times, but I've always attributed that to his wormy-wiggly personality. He doesn't bunny hop, and isn't stiff after getting up, or anything. I've been trying to keep his activity very age appropriate, but this has really upped my paranoia.

 

So basically....What are Keeper's chances of making it through life without HD?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm sorry to hear about Keeper's littermate.

Rather than just relying on the fact that both parent's are clear, you could check out the estimated breeding value (EBV) for the mating..assuming that his parents data has been added to the database and you know their details. Check out http://www.vet.cornell.edu/news/ebv.cfm and follow the link at the end to register for free. The reliability of the result will probably depend on how much other data Cornell has for their relatives.

Much of HD is caused by environmental factors rather than genetics and it sound's like you are doing as much as you can to ensure his hips remain healthy. I'm sure others will have advice on this

In my limited experience, a dog with bad hips has a wiggle/sway in their lower back as they walk and this is sometimes easier to see than an 'odd' running gait which may only be apparent when they are running flat out.

Good luck

 

ETA remember that EBV's will only give you a statistical result (ie the 'likelyhood') that Keeper may get HD...It cannot provide an "absolute" definitive answer.

 

ETA- 2 do you know whether anything happened during Keeper's mother pregnancy..e.g was she ill or was there problems with the litter's nutrition/exercise ?

see - http://www.instituteofcaninebiology.org/ebv-examples.html quote

Hip dysplasia has a heritability of about 20%, which means that 80% of the variation among dogs is influenced by the "environment" (which includes anything that is NOT genetic) - nutrition of the mother, how much exercise the puppy got, what substrate is in the kennel - ANYTHING that could influence the quality of the hip. So a dog might not have great hips, but if it has a low EBV for hips, that tells you that it has good GENES for hips.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't have any scientific knowledge of HD, so I just wanted to say, don't panic just yet. :) My first border collie had horrible hips, but looking back, I don't know if it was genetic or environmental. In those days, hubby and I were packing mules in the Sierras and in the summer, our dogs covered 10 to 18 miles per day in the mountains. At 6 months old, Rose started going up the trail with the older dogs and ... maybe it was too much.

But, Rose's mom and dad both worked cows into old age and her littermate sister was, last I heard,16 years old having never had HD. So if your pup looks normal now, I'd count that a hopeful sign.

Anyhow, I think my girl's case was one where genetics didn't seem to follow a linear path, if it was genetic at all. You sound like you're doing the right thing by your youngster, so I hope you can take heart. And I hope time will prove that your pup is just fine. :) Hang in there!

~ Gloria

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just because both parents are clear and there hasn't been any known HD in the lines, doesn't mean that it can't happen. It's called "shit happens". No matter how clean the genetics of the lines are doesn't mean that something can't crop up. It doesn't necessarily mean that this is genetic. Is it both hips or just one? Sometimes things just don't form properly while the fetus is growing. My friend and I breed a litter every 5 - 6 years for ourselves. There has been NO HD in our lines, or in the males that we have used. Out of 4 litters of puppies - 28 puppies, one has very mild HD, and that one was out of a litter of 9. All other puppies have had good to excellent hips. Therefore, we are not panicking that we have HD in our lines.

 

I have a tendency to do a preliminary hip xray at 9 - 10 months old, simply because I want to know what the hips are like before I start any kind of serious training on stock, agility, obedience, etc. If my puppy has poor hips, I want to know at that time to determine what kind of training I will do, or if I would have to decide agility is not an option, etc. I haven't found they have changed between then and 2 yrs of age. IF they have changed, I at least have a marker to compare 10 months to 24 months. Fortunately, we have a board certified radiologist 1.5 hrs away from where I live, and get him to do the initial xray at 10 months of age. For your peace of mind, you may want to consider getting an xray done at this time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you all for the advice, I really appreciate it.

 

I know his mother's pregnancy was quite normal, as was the rearing of the litter. Normal whelping box, etc.

 

I think Keeper is fine at this point, though I'm definitely able to convince myself that his wiggliness in back is HD. He really is a little floppier than I would like, but I think much of that is just his way of moving. When he's focused his walk becomes very normal.

 

The affected pup has both hips severely affected. They're waiting to see if his hips are free of arthritis, and will move forward with getting him surgery if they are clear. They said his hips were apparent from a pretty young age. He wouldn't jump in the truck or on someone's lap, he'd bunny hop, and he'd prefer to sit rather than stand most of the time. His owner got 2 pups from the litter (I don't know how he's doing it) and he says he's not concerned about his female. I could even see in the pictures that the affected dog is built differently in his hind end than Keeper or his sister. These two dogs live the working life, so I have no idea how hard he may have exercised at a very young age. Keeper is a very highly trained couch potato.

 

I know I'll end up doing an x-ray at some point. I guess if he does have HD an x-ray doesn't change anything other than knowing about it. At his age I'm sticking to the low impact activities as much as possible. (I say this as he flies off the back of my couch). The affected pup was actually the one I was interested in before following the breeder's suggestion. I'm so glad I ended up with Keeper, only because there's no way I could have afforded the 3,000 dollar surgery.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


I think you'll find an x-ray will put your mind at ease, at least by showing you exactly what his hips look like. It sounds super hopeful that he's visibly different from his litter mate, and even if an x-ray does show something a little off, there's a lot you can do with nutrition and fitness to help Keeper live a long and healthy life. I really didn't see that Rose had bad hips until she was 3 years old, because she was so physically fit that sheer muscle tone and orneriness held her together. :P We only found out she had HD when she took a bad fall that required x-rays of her hips. I've often wondered how many years she might have gone with no trouble, if it weren't for that fall.

Anyhow, I know your fear and worry intimately, so I'll keep fingers crossed that all will continue to be well for you and Keeper. :)

~ Gloria

 

 

 

I know I'll end up doing an x-ray at some point. I guess if he does have HD an x-ray doesn't change anything other than knowing about it. At his age I'm sticking to the low impact activities as much as possible. (I say this as he flies off the back of my couch). The affected pup was actually the one I was interested in before following the breeder's suggestion. I'm so glad I ended up with Keeper, only because there's no way I could have afforded the 3,000 dollar surgery.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Re x-rays (not knowing where you are located, but if in the US): go with PennHip vs. OFA. Better views, better results.

 

The littermate may well be a candidate for surgery. The dog I have with HD diagnosed at 13 months of age was really past the "ideal" age, though the vet thought it would be OK to do. I opted not to. He has shown NO symptoms, even at 8.5 yr of age. (And his were bad, by PennHip standards - in the .73 to .77 range) He is lean, gets lots of off leash exercise, works some "balance work" (on exercise balls, disks, etc.), and does agility. He no doubt has some arthritis, but it has not shown itself, and while he is jumping lower in agility these days, you would never know he has HD. Like Gloria's dog (sorry about that fall....thankfully we haven't had one - yet!), mine is fit and has good muscle tone. I'm doing everything I can to keep that!

 

Bottom line: even if your dog has it, it is no death sentence, not even a "reduced quality of life" sentence.

 

Paws crossed that everything turns out well.

diane

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Our nearly 9 year old was found to have HD just over a year ago during investigations for an unrelated problem. He has been thoroughly checked out by a specialist who found no issues that he could pinpoint as being caused by HD. He has been competing in agility since he was 18 months and still does. It has made no difference to his life whatsoever. He will probably develop arthritis in later years but there is little change at present and we can't make him live his life in fear of the possible future.

 

It seems quite common for it to be diagnosed when a different problem arises. Often the dog has been and remains asymptomatic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My pitbull was diagnosed with HD when she was 9 or so. Radiographic evidence of arthritis was very minimal. She started having back problems when she was 7 or so and at the time,several vets (including ortho and rehab vets)really cranked on her hips with no response whatsoever.

 

When she was xrayed at 9, we were interested in her lower back. The vet did an extra view of the dog's pelvis gratus and her hip sockets were shockingly shallow. The HD diagnosis was really accidental. The dog lived a very active life even after she developed back problem and never gave a hint that her hips bothered her except over the past 2 years or so--she is now 13+

 

In May, we did another set of xrays, also of her back due to a wierd neuro problem and by then she did have radiographic changes in her hips consistant with arthritis.

 

In retrospect, we don't know if the back problems were related to the hips and we will never know. The funny thing is that if I had xrayed her hips when she was 2 years, I probably would have wrapped her in bubble wrap. Her rehab vet says that her activity level and musculature protected her from the HD symptoms for many years. She advises her clients with dogs with HD to be as active as possible and to NOT wrap their dogs in bubble wrap as good physical condition

protects these dogs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Re x-rays (not knowing where you are located, but if in the US): go with PennHip vs. OFA. Better views, better results.

Not supported by the head-to-head testing studies which indicated both were equally reliable (when performed correctly) and some other hip evaluation method (besides PennHip or OFA radiographic position) was used to assess the performance of both methods (i.e. euthanized lab dogs followed by physical examination of the hips).

 

review Rory J Todhunter's publications starting with:

 

 

Comparison of three radiographic methods for diagnosis of hip dysplasia in eight-month-old dogs

 

George Lust, PhD Rory J. Todhunter, BVSc, PhD, DACVS Hollis N. Erb, DVM, PhD Nathan L. Dykes, DVM, DACVR Alma J. Williams, MS Nancy I. Burton-Wurster, PhD James P. Farese, DVM, DACVS
James A. Baker Institute for Animal Health, College of Veterinary Medicine, Cornell University, Ithaca, NY 14853. (Lust, Williams, Burton-Wurster); Department of Clinical Sciences, College of Veterinary Medicine, Cornell University, Ithaca, NY 14853. (Todhunter, Dykes, Farese); Department of Population Medicine and Diagnostic Sciences, College of Veterinary Medicine, Cornell University, Ithaca, NY 14853. (Erb); Present address is Department of Small Animal Clinical Sciences, College of Veterinary Medicine, University of Florida, Gainesville, FL 32610. (Farese)

Objective—To compare the accuracy of the extended- hip radiographic (EHR) score, the distraction index (DI), and the dorsolateral subluxation (DLS) score for identifying hip dysplasia in dogs at 8 months of age.

 

Design—Cohort study

 

Animals—129 Labrador Retrievers, Greyhounds, and Labrador Retriever-Greyhound crossbreds.

 

Procedure—Radiography was performed when dogs were 8 months of age. Dogs were euthanatized at 8 to 36 months of age; hip dysplasia was diagnosed at the time of necropsy on the basis of results of a gross examination of the articular cartilage of the hip joints for signs of osteoarthritis.

 

Results—The EHR score, DI, and DLS score at 8 months of age were all significantly correlated with degree of cartilage degeneration at necropsy. Sensitivity and specificity of using EHR score at 8 months of age to diagnose hip dysplasia (scores > 3 were considered abnormal) were 38 and 96%, respectively; sensitivity and specificity of using DI (values > 0.7 were considered abnormal) were 50 and 89%; and sensitivity and specificity of using DLS score (scores ≤ 55% were considered abnormal) were 83 and 84%.

 

Conclusions and Clinical Relevance—Results suggested that specificities of the 3 methods for diagnosing hip dysplasia in dogs at 8 months of age were similar. However, the DLS score had higher sensitivity, indicating that there were fewer false-negative results. (J Am Vet Med Assoc 2001;219:1242–1246)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In retrospect, we don't know if the back problems were related to the hips and we will never know. The funny thing is that if I had xrayed her hips when she was 2 years, I probably would have wrapped her in bubble wrap. Her rehab vet says that her activity level and musculature protected her from the HD symptoms for many years. She advises her clients with dogs with HD to be as active as possible and to NOT wrap their dogs in bubble wrap as good physical condition protects these dogs.

I agree that wrapping in bubble wrap may not be a good idea (ETA once the dog has reached adulthood and bone growth has stopped).

 

The dog I know about with HD has remained fit and active doing a moderate amount of stock work. However when he broke a bone in his front foot, he had several months of inactivity. During this period, his lower back and back leg movement got worse as he lost his muscle tone. These symptoms seemed to improve once the fracture healed and he was able to rebuild his fitness and return to working stock.

 

YMMV

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You don't need to have the hips certified - you just need to have an xray done and read by your vet. If your vet can't determine what the hips are like you are in real trouble and need to find a new vet. We just happened to have a board cert radiologist very close to us, and book in there, but we don't have them certify the hips - just read them. I could just as easily get my local vet to do the xray and read them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"Euthanized lab dogs" - now that is just offensive.


The Western College of Vet Medicine in Saskatchewan was going to euthanize a bunch of lab Beagles, but they got razed about it, and they were taken into rescue and all adopted. Some of them ended up with friends of mine and went on to play agility, etc instead of being killed off because they were no longer useful to the college.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The alternative would have been surgery to separate the hip joints, visually examine the hips for degeneration, and then hip repair followed by post op care and rehab on 129 dogs.

 

The problem with most of the other HD studies was the starting assumption that one's method of choice was the gold standard to which the others were compared; which means the other methods would never provide as good of results. A circular argument where OFA is not as good as PennHip at the characterization of hips as determined by PennHip. This makes it impossible to have a objective comparison of the various HD diagnostic methods. The only way to have an objective comparison of the various HD diagnostic methods was to use visual examination of the hips as the gold standard. These types of terminal studies are important and invaluable but should be used sparingly. We should be concerned about these types of studies and make sure there are no terminal alternatives for obtaining the valuable information from these studies.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...