Finding a breeder

[CptJack]

Okay, I will definitely avoid them. I pretty much knew I should, I guess I'm just getting a little frustrated because no one that seems to be reputable is responding to my emails. I have just been sending a general inquiry email to anyone that looks reputable within the area, asking about breeding practices if it wasn't clear on their website, cost, health checks etc. and encouraging them to ask me any questions they have about what kind of home I can provide for a dog and my experience with border collies. Nothing that I would think is offensive... but no answers.

 

 

Oh, and this.

 

IME with breeders? Don't bother emailing, for the same reason I said give up the internet searching - internet people and dog people are not always the same people; one has nothing to do with the other. Pick up the phone and call. Most that have some kind of webpage have numbers listed somewhere. If they don't, email and ask them to call you - with your number included, as well as a brief summary of what you want to talk about (obviously).

 

Calling and asking to talk about the breed and their dogs and possibly meet them will get you further than email, too. If you MUST stick to email, expect not to get replies from many, and to get very, very belated calls by most.

[amc]

You should really think about going to the trial near North Ogden that I referenced on page 1 of this thread. Shauna Gourley is Utah's top handler and she is hosting the trial. You'll meet a lot of people in the working border collie world there, and you will surely be made welcome. Bring lunch, a chair, binoculars, appropriate outdoor clothing and plenty of questions. It's a great place to start!

 

Amy

[rwinner]

Okay confession time. I've got really bad anxiety lately, and the thought of going to a trial and talking to a bunch of people I don't know is making me nervous. However, I definitely want to take the time to get a good dog, and think it would be great to be better educated about the breed and what they are actually used for. I've seen some herding, but it was forever ago when I was a kid. So how exactly does this work, do I just show up and start talking to people, volunteer to help out, etc? What can I do to help? I will be much less nervous/awkward if I know what to expect and especially if I can help out in some way...

[Bogwoppit]

You can do it! Remember no matter how anxious you feel, people there will be there for the love of dogs, just like you. You've already got something in common before you even turn up.

 

This coming from someone who occasionally hides in bathrooms when anxiety rises, you can do this. And then later along the line you can turn up with your dog. Just think forward, feeling a little awkward now will be so much worth it when you have your new friend.

[Sue R]

Anxiety is hard to deal with but I would suggest that you go to the USBCHA website, looking under "sheep", and get the list of upcoming trials (http://www.usbcha.com/sheep/upcoming_trials.html) where contact information for the trial host is listed. Email or call and offer to volunteer.

 

"Volunteer? But I don't know anything about sheepdog trials!" Don't worry, just offer and be honest about your lack of experience. There are always jobs for people of all levels of experience, from hospitality (you'll meet lots of people at the coffee pot) to posting scores to whatever you can do to help.

 

Trial hosts appreciate helpers and volunteering is a great way to meet people, be able to watch the trial, make connections, and get out the word that you are looking for a working-bred pup (or maybe better yet, a young dog that isn't making it as a stockdog but would make a great active companion or sports dog for you if that's what you are looking for).

 

It may take some time to do it right (get a responsibly-bred pup) but it is worth it - you will get a good pup and also support a good breeder at the same time. Best wishes!

 

PS - Please don't discount rescue. If you are willing to check with them, contact the rescues in your area and see what's available. Get your paperwork done and in in case something that's just right comes along. It will do no harm and you just might find the perfect pup or dog for you, and give a deserving animal a great home!

[Blackdawgs]

I received responses from almost all of the working breeders that I initially contacted by email. With iphones, etc, email seems to be the prefered method of *initial* contact. I wrote brief emails introducing myself, saying that I was looking for a working bred puppy, and I always asked when is the best time for me to call. And then I followed-up with a call at that time.

 

Most people love talking about their dogs, so I would not feel wierd talking to strangers at a trial. However, please don't approach someone immediately before or after they go to the post--people will not want to talk to you during those times.

[amc]

rwinner, it's okay to be shy - many of us are, but you'll find the working border collie community to be especially welcoming - just look at these Boards!!

 

Do go to the Flock N Paws website I posted - Shauna's email contact info is there. She gives lessons to all levels of handlers, so you can be sure she is sensitive to people's feelings. You can even tell her Amy Coapman encouraged you to get in touch! If that's a bit much, just show up on the day and check out the folks from a short distance. There will probably be a flurry of activity around getting the sheep and judge organized, and a clot of handlers with a bunch of dogs standing around jawing and drinking hot beverages.

 

Oh, by the way, the President of the Utah Stockdog Association, Carol Clawson, (which you might consider joining!) has just been elected the President of the United States Border Collie Handlers' Association!

 

Good luck and keep us posted!

 

Amy

[DeltaBluez Tess]

One time we all were "shy" at our first trial. I sure remember mine. I sat in a chair, terrified and embarrassed after our disastrous Novice run. Open handlers went out of their way to talk to me. Then I wasn't so afraid and asked if I could sit next to someone and ask questions about the run......they greeted me with open arms as they all had been in the same boat. Plus we love to see new folks show an interest in the dogs. Email them and offer your services, even as a fetching gopher for the judge, setout crew etc....tell people this is your first event and ask if someone will walk you thru a run....I am betting you will get quite a few...I had a fetching gopher that brought me my coffee and as she gave it to me, told me this was her first trial. I was judging so I grabbed her and put her in the back seat of the truck and told her to listen. I talked about the couple of runs and then she had to go....she was so excited and i was happy to see that her passion was fired up.

 

one of my best friends is a Novice (but not for long)...she emailed me out of the blue and asked if she could come over and watch with her young dog...one thing led to another and now we are best friends....she offers her viewpoint from a fresh set of eyes when we work dogs. We have great talks and she has learned to work various type of dogs. Just because you are new or a Novice doesn't mean you aren't just as important...we all are the same....we offer different viewpoints, it's how you offer it. I will listen to advice from a genuine new/novice person than an arrogant open person......

 

some of the best advice I ever got (again from a couple of Novice) was when they started training their dog, they had lots of horse training experience....so they could translate it to the dogs. It opened some new viewpoints on dog/sheep behavior that we used.

 

Don't' be shy....remember we "ALL" were in the same boots as you are once.....and if you are at a trial that one of us are at. let us know and we will take you under our wing......

 

Shauna is VERY NICE and a wonderful person so email her.....I will bet she will roll out the welcome wagon for you.

[Sue R]

_{Oh, Diane, let's talk "disasterous first runs"! I was just observing the Novice class at Roy and Debbie Johnson's Breezy Hill Trial one summer about 10 years ago. It looked so simple that I asked if I could enter. They said that was fine as they were not overbooked and I went on out with my dog, full of confidence. Well, the dog was fine but I had managed to forget that I'd never penned before and didn't have a single clue how to do it right.}

 

_{But, wait! I'd seen Skip Robinson, a very athletic and muscular, handsome (I know, that has nothing to do with this) young man do a pen just beforehand and when the sheep had been somewhat hesitant, he'd crouched down at the end of the gate rope to make a pretty nifty "fence" and in they'd gone as the dog moved up. So I did what I'd seen him do.}

 

_{Have I mentioned that I was not athletic, overweight, not pretty (I know, nothing to do with this), and already quite a bit arthritic already? I got down in the crouch and then could not move. I was stuck. The sheep stood and stared (I'm convinced they were laughing hysterically inside). Celt stood and stared at the sheep (and pretended he didn't know me). The entire group of people on the other side of the fence stared - I don't think they'd ever seen anything so idiotic and maybe they were taking bets on whether or not I'd be able to get up again. Ever.}

 

_{I did manage to get up and I can't remember how. I may have swallowed my pride and gotten down on my knees first, whatever it took. And, yes, I did return to the Novice field in a number of other trials but the memory of that day will remain with me even when the memories of good runs have long been lost in the mists of time.}

 

_{So, to the OP, go for it! It will be worth it, trust me!}

[DeltaBluez Tess]

well heck, here is my first Novice run.....the day before I had a lesson with Scott Glen (and I had no idea who he was) and he helped me tons...I was going to a AKC trainer and me and my Tess sucked....Scott showed me how to herd without a 20 foot pvc pipe and whipping it at Tess. In fact, my hands had to be in the pocket...it was wonderful. After the lesson, I realized how bad we really were and asked him if I should pull out of the Novice run. He was the judge and told me to slow her down and down her.

 

Ok so I went to the post, very nervous. Tess having the opportunity, unfettered by my chains of stupidity, had a super outrun and lift. Then it went to hell in a hand basket. Sheep bolted to me at a dead run and these were dog broke sheep. I yelled at her to stop but it made her go quicker. The sheep ran past me and leaped to the fence and all bounced off. Scott was behind the fence and he leapt out of his chair. They all swirled in different directions and by this time, Tess did do her down. I stopped and looked at sheep, dog and judge and asked if I could quit. The whole run was like may 27 seconds but seemed like an eternity. He smiled and we had a nice slow walk with sheep next to me and Tess being very steady behind to the exhaust. I never knew that sheep could bounce of the fence so well.

 

Later at dinner, Scott sat down and talked to me for a long time and told me that Tess was talented and she needed serious training and I need to go to another trainer if I wanted to pursue the sport. He was nice about it and told me that Tess was very enthusiastic on her run and was a natural outrun and had good feel for her stock. Of course, NONE of that made sense to me at that time. He explained more about herding, etc and made me feel at ease. The next day, he would chat with me during breaks etc.....the open handlers made me feel welcome. I had no idea he was a big hat and he sure didn't act like it.

 

We laugh about it to this day, as I told him during his lesson that if I didn't like it, the trial host said she would refund my money. I remember asking him, "Who are you, never heard of you...are you any good" (remember I was AKC biased) and he laughed and said, well watch me and WOW....my eyes sure opened.

 

Tess was grateful that day as well. We did other Novice runs and some were sporty but now as disastrous as the first one.....I can honestly say it was one of the worse runs that I ever did in my career. But I learned from it.

[DeltaBluez Tess]

Sue....speaking of penning, one Novice run that I had with Tess, she had a beautiful outrun, lift and fetch and then I went to the pen. Mind you , I never had gotten this far before. I still lived in the city and went for weekly lesson but never did a pen lesson.The sheep and Tess went round and round the pen so I turned to the judge and asked," What do I do?"

 

reply was "open the gate" and so I did and the sheep bolted in there, no doubt tired of circling the pen numerous times. Then the judge shouted, "shut the gate" and I did.....we all laughed.....

[Sue R]

Priceless!

 

Sue....speaking of penning, one Novice run that I had with Tess, she had a beautiful outrun, lift and fetch and then I went to the pen. Mind you , I never had gotten this far before. I still lived in the city and went for weekly lesson but never did a pen lesson.The sheep and Tess went round and round the pen so I turned to the judge and asked," What do I do?"

 

reply was "open the gate" and so I did and the sheep bolted in there, no doubt tired of circling the pen numerous times. Then the judge shouted, "shut the gate" and I did.....we all laughed.....

[Sue R]

I just love Scott (and Jenny)! He is certainly very down to earth and not stuck up one bit. And honest but kind. And humorous in his own way.

 

I, too, spent time with an AKC (also did USBHCA) trainer and I wish I'd not - the person I'd have gone to otherwise would have been so much better for myself and my dog, but I went to this one trainer because my friend with an Aussie could go with me. We didn't know better. Just not the right trainer for us.

 

And I did once see a person show up at a clinic with a length of pipe that was unbelievable. Nice dog, a really nice English Shepherd, but a handler without a clue and nothing but a ginormously long PVC pipe. At least the handler and his wife loved the dog and were kind.

 

well heck, here is my first Novice run.....the day before I had a lesson with Scott Glen (and I had no idea who he was) and he helped me tons...I was going to a AKC trainer and me and my Tess sucked....Scott showed me how to herd without a 20 foot pvc pipe and whipping it at Tess. In fact, my hands had to be in the pocket...it was wonderful. After the lesson, I realized how bad we really were and asked him if I should pull out of the Novice run. He was the judge and told me to slow her down and down her.

[rwinner]

Okay, this is making me feel a lot better. Thanks for all the stories!

[DeltaBluez Tess]

...and there was the time when I ran Tess in Open...the sheep were hard to set so the lift was where the dog lifted them if they ran off....to the right side (looking from the handler's port) there was a large marsh, about 2-4 feet deep in some areas....The sheep bolted as I sent Tess and they ended up at the far side of the marsh. I looked at the judge and he said, go ahead and I will adjust (meaning get them back to the original setout point...but oh no, Tess was determined to bring them straight to me....they stood off at her at the edge of the marsh and all did a little dance but they swam across the marsh to my feet, a perfect fetch. Tess didn't listen to single command on the fetch. I turned to the judge as they reached my feet, and he had tears in his eyes from laughing so hard.....I admit I was laughing as well......although I am sure the sheep didn't think it was funny but it was humorous. Some of the runs can be quite funny (now after the fact).....just when you think you are geeing good, your dog will humble you! Hopefully other folks will post some of their first Novice runs....

[Sue R]

There is no reason to be anxious! Whatever mistakes you might make have already been made many times before!

[Laurae]

These are great stories! On one of my first novice runs, we did a nice (but very, very fast) outrun, lift, and fetch in about 12 seconds, and then spent the next 4:48 ringing the pen. When time was finally called, I whispered "oh, thank god!" to myself, only it must have not been a very quiet whisper because the entire crowd (of mainly open competitors) erupted in laughter! And then cheers.

[Sue R]

I love it! I know we are veering off track but I am having such a laugh reading other folks' "horror stories" and "train wrecks"! It makes me feel like maybe, someday, I might just run a dog again if I have the right dog.

 

PS - I think there is no time that goes more slowly than when a pen is going wrong, or a shed! The fear of shedding is one reason I have *never* aspired to becoming an Open handler, ever. Ever.

 

These are great stories! On one of my first novice runs, we did a nice (but very, very fast) outrun, lift, and fetch in about 12 seconds, and then spent the next 4:48 ringing the pen. When time was finally called, I whispered "oh, thank god!" to myself, only it must have not been a very quiet whisper because the entire crowd (of mainly open competitors) erupted in laughter! And then cheers.

[Gideon's girl]

I turned to the judge as they reached my feet, and he had tears in his eyes from laughing so hard.....I admit I was laughing as well.

Me too!! Thanks for your wonderful stories.

[gcv-border]

Love these stories. Please keep them coming.

[Debbie Meier]

actually sounds like a great thread all of it's own!!

[mum24dog]

Wasn't there a thread a little while ago about how working breeders make it hard for potential buyers to find them?

 

One of the frequent criticisms of some breeders is that they breed too many dogs. Infrequent breeding is held out as the optimum but it seems that the potential demand isn't being met and those who breed and meet the exacting standards set here are hiding themselves away from all but the trialling cognoscenti.

 

How is that working as a strategy to encourage the general BC buying public to go to a reputable working breeder?

[Gideon's girl]

It isn't.

[rwinner]

That's why I find it strange that people have trouble getting in contact with responsible breeders. You think they would answer an email from a buyer, even if they aren't having a litter, just to educate them on the breed and buying responsibly. I'm not asking for an essay here, all I ask when I send out an email is if they could tell me about their breeding philosophy, if they have litter plans, and if not, if they had any recommendations for other responsible breeders in the area. I briefly list why I want a puppy, and tell them to feel free to ask me any questions (I assume a responsible breeder would be concerned about where their puppies go). I understand that they probably don't need to advertise their litters, but that doesn't seem like a reason to let an honest question go unanswered.

 

Side note. These stories are wonderful. I guess I shouldn't be so nervous, all I have to worry about is asking a dumb question and meeting people. At least I don't have to worry about screwing up with a dog in front of everyone...

[Tess's Girl]

Okay confession time. I've got really bad anxiety lately, and the thought of going to a trial and talking to a bunch of people I don't know is making me nervous. However, I definitely want to take the time to get a good dog, and think it would be great to be better educated about the breed and what they are actually used for. I've seen some herding, but it was forever ago when I was a kid. So how exactly does this work, do I just show up and start talking to people, volunteer to help out, etc? What can I do to help? I will be much less nervous/awkward if I know what to expect and especially if I can help out in some way...

 

I also get very anxious, especially when it means meeting and trying to talk to people I don't know. I volunteered this past year at the Bluegrass Classic and it was wonderful. When signing up to volunteer I let them know I didn't have any experience. It was never a problem. Yeah I was nervous, and I was afraid of messing something up but everyone was super nice (I even got to meet a couple people from this board!) and I learned a ton. Because of volunteering I was put in touch with a trainer in my area and tomorrow Tess and I are going to take our first sheep herding lesson! So you can definitely do it! It's a great way to meet people with your same interests and a great way to learn about the breed you love.