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My husband and I are looking to get a puppy, but I am unsure on how to find a reputable breeder. We live in northern Utah and are willing to travel to southern Idaho, western Wyoming or Colorado, or Eastern Nevada. I had two border collies in my family growing up, so I am familiar with the breed. I miss the unique bond a border collie forms with its person and also miss having a companion on my running/hiking excursions. My dog will get plenty of mental exercise, as well as physical. I know I need to find a reputable breeder that breeds for working ability ONLY. Any help or advice is greatly appreciated. We are hoping to get the puppy between February-May next year.

 

As a side note, we do live in an apartment, but not in a city. There is plenty of access to hiking and the outdoors very close, just no backyard. I thought that wouldn't be much of a problem since my previous dogs wouldn't play alone in a yard anyway. From what I've read on here other people have had the same experience and say an apartment is fine as long as the dog gets plenty of exercise and training, but any stories or advice is welcome.

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Welcome! You may want to use the search function first to find recent topics (there have been a few) that discuss this very subject. There are people here who can suggest folks in your area but remember that the best working breeders, in general, don't tend to produce many pups but primarily produce when they want replacements of their own. Therefore, your particular time frame might have to be adjusted when you do find the right source.

 

My suggestion for anyone looking for a pup is to make connections - go to USBCHA trials (you can find a listing on their website) and watch, meet people, volunteer, see dogs that you like and handlers that you like. See if there is an association for your area and check out if they have a breeders' listing or if there are handler/breeders in your area. Make the effort to visit a potential source, see the farm/ranch, meet the dogs, get to see some working or in training.

 

Read the "Read this First" to become familiar with the philosophy of this board (you likely already have), learn about responsible breeding, and learn to recognize the "red flags" that may help you to avoid less-responsible or desirable breeders.

 

And always, you might consider a reputable Border Collie rescue. They sometimes get pups and sometimes you can find the best dog for you even if that dog does not come with a stellar pedigree or past.

 

You sound like you've been doing your homework and considering many of the important aspects of bringing a pup or dog into your life. Best wishes!

 

PS - You might also want to check out the NCA (National Cattledog Association) which is a recently-formed trial association for those who are working their dogs on cattle rather than sheep and/or cattle (as USBCHA does). There are some fine handlers in your area that are active in that organization, as well as those who are involved with USBCHA.

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http://www.usbcha.com/assoc/local_asns.html lists local associations and there are several in the intermountain west.

 

http://www.flocknpawsfarm.com/ has information about an upcoming trial November 29th near North Ogden. That would be an excellent place to meet local handlers and find out more about activities and possible upcoming litters that meet your criteria.

 

Good luck! I'm sure you'll find the perfect pup!

 

Amy

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Please consider getting your puppy from a border collie rescue organization. We have a large one here in AZ. Rescue organizations often get puppies and young dogs in to the rescue. Currently there is a whole litter of puppies up for adoption at ABCR, and every one of them is adorable.

http://www.azbordercollierescue.com/

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I don't have any experience with rescues but would definitely be willing to adopt a rescue if the right dog came along. I have been checking petfinder regularly as suggested by this site (Arizona is a bit too far away for us. Too bad, those dogs are adorable). The other question I had is about cost. I wish I didn't have to ask this, but what can I expect to pay for a puppy? I wish it weren't a factor, but we are young and just starting out (plus I have no idea what is reasonable for a puppy from a good breeder). Of course we have already factored in vet bills, emergency vet bills, kennel, gas to get to the breeder, food, etc. and think we can spend about 300, maybe 400 at most for the puppy itself. Is this unreasonable? After just some basic looking I see ABCA puppies going for anywhere from 200-1000.

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I am glad to hear that you have factored in "post-purchase" costs for your new potential dog. Over time, they add up to a sum higher than the initial cost.

 

Here is my plug for a rescue dog: From the financial side - If you are considering costs, a rescue can be quite a bargain. To adopt a rescue may cost between $250 - $300 from a dedicated breed rescue that fosters BCs. This cost usually includes all shots, neutering, maybe a microchip and other assorted medical treatments as necessary. You get a dog that, barring an unforeseen accident or circumstance, should not have to return to the vet for a year or more. If you find one at a city/county pound, you will have to factor in the cost (usually lower) plus any medical treatments that the dog will require. If you purchase a puppy from a breeder, add up the 2nd and 3rd immunizations, a well puppy checkup, usually a couple of wormings (puppies eat everything on the ground), a neutering at the appropriate age, etc.

 

Run the numbers for each scenario. Call a vet to find out what the immunizations cost, wormings, and the biggie is the neutering.

 

This is just something to think about from the financial side. Obviously other factors come into play in your decision.

 

Have you checked out 'Western Border Collie Rescue'?. OMG, such cuties. I wouldn't mind adopting either of the cute Aussie puppies or Cass or Trixie. I am glad I don't live in the West. Too much temptation. ;-)

 

Good Luck.

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Pups run 600-850$ or so, but I have seen some for $300 but that ad was a Backyard breeder wiht no health checks, working etc but bred for color......

 

so if you are open to rescue, contact the ones in your state and surrounding state. I work in rescue and we have a large transport to help get a dog to the new owner. Some rescue pups/dogs are great and come in rescue due to family issues. etc and nothing wrong wiht the dog.

 

Tell the rescue org what you are looking for...sometimes we get dogs and they never make it on the web pages as we have folks already qualified for them.......

 

 

good luck and keep us posted....your life will take a turn for the best!

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Thank you guys for all the advice, I really appreciate it. Two more questions for you about rescues. I have no experience with mixes, most seem to be aussie mixes. Are they very different than a typical border collie in terms of intensity/intelligence, or bond to the owner? I've only really met one Australian shepherd before, and it was very aggressive and unfriendly (probably due to the owner though). Also, a lot of rescues seem to require a fenced yard, which I do not have. Is that typical?

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My dog was 25.00 from a farm. Mom was health tested and working, dad was working on the farm but not tested and not even definitely purebred (could've been - could have been half ACD). The litter she came from was absolutely not planned. I don't really recommend that route to other people for obvious reasons, but she was vetted, socialized, and given good care before I got her, the breeders didn't make a profit from her/the litter and I have no regrets about having her.

 

I WOULD recommend going the rescue route. BC/AS mixes are very, very common and the ones I know personally are just a little more forward, a little braver, and a little more inclined to be hard headed (and harder in general, as opposed to typical BC softness). They've all been pretty great dogs, and I'm not really a huge fan of Australian shepherds.


Though honestly if you're going rescue my advise is always just to pay attention to the dog in front of you. Puppies, purebred or not, are always something of a crap shoot. Older puppies/dogs are much more of a sure thing.

 

(Edited for clarity because holy heck I mixed up works and nonsense there).

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The characteristics of BC mixes will certainly differ widely - mainly due to the other 'partner' in the breeding. I don't think anyone can generalize about BC mixes.

 

If you are going the rescue route, I (and many others here) recommend getting a dog of at least 6-12 months old (if you want a younger dog). You will have a preview of adult size and a good idea of personality - neither of which will be apparent in a B&W puppy of 8-10 weeks. Note that sometimes B&W puppies of unknown parentage may be labelled as BC mix by a shelter/animal control - and grows up to be NOT a BC mix.

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The characteristics of BC mixes will certainly differ widely - mainly due to the other 'partner' in the breeding. I don't think anyone can generalize about BC mixes.

 

That is true. I've had at least two, possibly three, Border Collie mixes, and their personalities, temperaments, and characteristics have been extremely varied.

 

None of them have acted much like Border Collies, actually.

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I'll echo the rest here. Well bred pups do cost a bit more but in the long run you'll be happy you went that way if you decide to go with a pup from a breeder. Yes, you can find some for cheaper, but you really need to proceed with caution. On occasion there are the cheaper farm/ranch litters that can be found but I would want to really know the backgrounds of their dogs/breeding philosophy/health/soundness before getting a pup from that type of situation. Breeding good dogs takes time and costs money and puppy prices reflect this.

 

But lots of great dogs can be found in rescue. If you're thinking about this, I would suggest you try contacting some and see about getting approved now so if/when the right dog shows up you'll be ready.

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I got Lyka for $150 from the shelter and only know her mom is a border collie, but she is a fantastic dog. The bonus to getting her from a shelter is she was spayed/microchiped/up to date on shots, so that was a huge elimination of new puppy cost. She is just as bonded to us, athletic, and smart as my known pure border collie. Like others have said this depends on the mix.

 

I got Lily for $200 from a working ranch for that was breeding for another pup of their own, not for puppy profit. Parents are local herding champions, and work cattle on the ranch. Sometimes you just need to look around to find a ranch that is breeding because they want a puppy for one reason or another. Those pups are often times less expensive then the breeders who just want to sell the puppies. It is up to you to decide if the puppies from a ranch litter meet your requirements. Always look at the parents to see if you want a dog that ends up like them (temperament and health wise). However even that is no guarentee of what the dog will be.

 

If you want a guarentee an adult rescue would be a better choice than a puppy.

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I second the suggestion of getting a slightly older puppy from a rescue, so that you have an idea of the dog's personality. Many BC mixes act exactly like a purebred BC, and others do not. With a 5 or 6 month old puppy you know the personality and inclinations of the dog, yet the pup is plenty young enough for you to raise him or her to be the dog you want. I think this is the best of both worlds in getting a new dog, whether a mix or a purebred.

 

And keep in mind that a young adult, one or two years old, can also be an excellent deal. Jes was 2 when I adopted him and as he and I grew together, he became exactly the right dog for me.

 

As for the fenced yard concern, it depends on the rescue. Some will have that as a requirement, but not all. It also depends on what else you have to offer the dog and how well people in the rescue get to know you. When I adopted Jester, I lived in one room in Los Angeles without any kind of yard at all. I doubt they would have adopted out to me but for the fact that I had gone to several of their events, talked to the people, and interacted with many of the dogs, and they knew what kind of dog person I was. They trusted me to give the dog a good home despite my circumstances, and I made sure that I did.

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A fenced yard in rescue is pretty much required (our group) as people let their dogs out to go potty and ignore them BUT we have placed dogs in homes with no fenced yards...we do a home visit and based on the visit, the fenced yard is wavered.

 

One example was a nice older couple just lost their elderly Aussie and did not have a fenced yard. I did the home visit and they had 20 plus acres and a huge kennel and tennis court that the dog could be in but they dog was with them 24/7. I mentioned the couple names to my spouse and he about leapt up from his chair and said he knew them as he painted their house one summer. He saw how much they took care of the dog and based on first hand experience of several months, the fenced yard was not an issue. It's what you do with the dog and how you do it.....when I lived in a condo (no yard to speak of) I had two dogs and we did tons of stuff and rescue had no issue in placing a dog with us....so the fenced yard is not a show stopper...you just have to show that you do enough with the dog......

 

the nice thing about a yearling or older rescue dog is that some are quite nice and you know all about the dog....house training, personality, likes/desire etc.....some of the rescue dogs are fantastic and maybe turned in due to death of the owner (in one case I had) and that dog, Max was superb....we were this close > one millimeter< to keeping him but a family came up so we did the meet and greet...he loved the two young girls so that was a no-brainer.....otherwise I would have kept him.....his owner got him as a pup, did all the training and he was a wonderful dog.....17 years later, I still have fond memories of that dog ....

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Okay time for more questions since I've been looking at breeders. First off, is it okay to flat out ask about a specific breeder on these boards or is that discouraged? I'm new and don't want to offend or step over any lines...

 

Most breeders I'm finding seem good, but not perfect. They all seem to have at least one of the red flags. The one I'm particularly interested in (just because they are close to me) seems to have good dogs. They do extensive health testing (CEA, OFA, CL, TNS). They talk about the breeding dogs interest in livestock, and that they have working parents but do not specifically mention stock work the breeding dogs have done (I have contacted them for more information on this and am waiting). They register with the ABCA and not the AKC. I guess the two things I am concerned about is that they do not mention specific stock work done by the dogs they are breeding, only the parents of those dogs. And they do seem to have a lot of different colored dogs. However, they do not in any way emphasize their colors, or charge differently for a non-traditionally colored pup. Their price for a puppy seems to be on the lower side of reasonable, which is reassuring to me since most of the sport/conformation/color breeders seem to charge a TON.

 

They also have a breeding contract. Charge an extra 'deposit' that will be refunded after puppy is spayed/neutered. They state that they do not allow their puppies to be bred unless they have reached 2 years of age and are showing talent, and it has been discussed with them. This makes me tend to believe that they are more responsible with their breeding.

 

Sorry to be so long-winded, I just don't want to make a mistake!! What do you guys think?

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Others have asked about specific breeders here, and they have generally gotten quite a bit of feedback. I don't think there are any rules against asking, at least nothing that I've ever seen.

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All right then, the specific breeder is sandstone appaloosas, sonja gregerson is the person that runs it. All my concerns are listed above. The do have pedigrees listed on their website, so maybe someone who knows more about that than I do could take a look. I feel so prepared to have a border collie, and so unprepared to pick one...

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I know nothing about that particular breeder but what I do see are lots of colors; one dog is AKC-registered (but that could be a fluke, a dog brought in who was already dual-registered); no parentage in any of the breeding animals that is obviously recognizable (that's okay if they are good working dogs); and no real indication that any of these dogs actually do any work.

 

I wouldn't say they have "pedigrees" on their website - they list sire and dam, and grandparents, most of whom have no recognizable information listed (breeder, owner, accomplishments) other than a few with a kennel name or prefix, which may or may not be known outside their local circles.

 

I really think that in order for them to have either bought in or kept so many "color" dogs, they must be making a real effort to seek out color for their breeding program, and that would be a deal-breaking red flag for me.

 

I do like the breeding restriction but not the fact that it states, "We will occasionally lift a breed restriction once the dog reaches 2 yrs of age and is shown to be trained or well on it's way in any recognized dog sport or herding." Right there is something that would cause me to look elsewhere because apparently they believe an animal to be breeding-worthy if just trained or "well on its way" (whatever that means) in *any recognized dog sport* or herding.

 

That is against the stated philosophy of these boards (see "Read this First" if you haven't already) and the concept of only breeding animals that have proven themselves worth breeding by working livestock to a very capable level. And I don't really see any indication that their dogs do any significant level of real stock work or training. I see that on the "older pups" page they mention sheep in a pen or pups with "interest" in sheep. The one photo of the youngster in a small-appearing pen with some sheep is not impressive or indicative of anything outstanding.

 

So, no, I'd pass on this one myself and keep looking if I wanted to get a pup from a breeder that I considered a good breeder.

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Here are some thoughts as I'm looking at their website and checking out the sites of dogs in their backgrounds.

 

They're obviously breeding for candy colors, which means they're not really breeding for the best working ability.

 

Add to the their frequent statements that a dog "has the desire to herd." That's a misleading way of saying "we don't work our dogs and don't really care if they're proven; we'll just breed them anyway." That's against everything these boards stand for in breeding.

 

Bear Creek's site is giving me mostly blank pages, but they state on their home page that "We have a variety of colors; particularly red, black & white, tri color, merle and some times tan", but nothing about the dogs' working abilities.

 

Lock-Eye is a large volume, primarily AKC breeder with a lot of focus on colors. Their name comes up from time to time in discussions here, and at least once there have been health concerns mentioned.

 

If Sandstone Appaloosas were my next door neighbors they wouldn't be where I'd be looking to find a well bred pup.

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Okay, I will definitely avoid them. I pretty much knew I should, I guess I'm just getting a little frustrated because no one that seems to be reputable is responding to my emails. I have just been sending a general inquiry email to anyone that looks reputable within the area, asking about breeding practices if it wasn't clear on their website, cost, health checks etc. and encouraging them to ask me any questions they have about what kind of home I can provide for a dog and my experience with border collies. Nothing that I would think is offensive... but no answers.

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It has been my experience that a lot of good breeders, particularly of working dogs but pretty generally too, don't have webpages. They will never, ever, turn up in a google search, and if they do the pages they have are often horribly out of date/rarely updated. Web-design and breeding are pretty different interests/hobbies/skills.

 

My suggestion to you would be to find some trials and go to them, and then try to start talking dogs with people. And I mean herding trials, not agility or flyball trials.

 

If you want to rely on the internet, the boards here and direct recommendations or rescues are probably going to be your best bet.

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