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I need advice on this situation with Akitas and our BC


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Absolutely - that is, in my mind, socialization. Your dog, with you, learning to meet the world in a happy, acceptable way.

 

I don't want them chasing random dogs for their balls or wrestling with "dog knows when he had his last tick medicine" fido from Timbuctoo. Yes, I am a snob about that.

 

I do want them happy in the world, unafraid of it, comfortable with how they ought to act.

 

In some ways the Dog Park is the antithesis of how I want my dogs to act around other dogs.

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Well, FWIW I don't teach socialization that way, and I don't know very many people who still do. I do live in an area thats more progressive with trainers.

 

Teaching a fearful dog to go up to a stranger and get food can result in a dog who goes much closer to the scary human than he is ready for because he would really like the treat and now he is in the "way too close" zone. It can result in a dog that runs up to a human for a cookie and then bites the human who just fed him.

 

I have met a lot of pet owners who think "socialization with other dogs" means free for all playing. They often end up with dog aggression issues. They don't know how to read if their puppy is actually enjoying play or just being bowled over or picked on. They think dogs will "work it out." Eep.

 

We do a small amount of puppy interaction in the Puppy K that I teach...however its in small controlled groups and part of the time is spent teaching the owners to read their dogs, how to see when they are overwhelmed, how to get involved in the puppy play so its not a free for all and how to ensure their dogs don;t totally tune them out when other dogs are around. I have had several people elect to go elsewhere because they wanted the whole class to be puppy playtime.

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I agree that what I was initially doing was less socializing than what I ended up doing.


I still fall down in some areas and will be the first to admit it. With every dog of this group I have raised from a puppy, I have ended up with the weirdo dog in class who WILL NOT take treats from the instructor (because they don't take food from anyone not me, actually) for at least the first several classes. Which is kind of annoying sometimes but not really a horrible thing.

 

Dog-dog socialization just doesn't even enter my head as something to DO, if I'm honest. There's no way to have them not be around dogs both at home and out and about in various places and other people's homes. But I'm not looking for much more than them being able to work around other dogs and not start crap.

 

I may need to do some work with Molly - some jerk wandered into PetSmart today with an ACD off leash. It ran around an endcap and (admittedly playfully) pounced on her. She got the literal pee scared out of her. Thanks for that, lady. Really. Just what I needed.

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After having a fearful dog, a reactive dog and one who wants to friends with EVERYONE, I'm really enjoying Kolt's nonchalant attitude towards other dogs "Oh, there's a dog. What else are we gonna do??" He's only really played with one other dog besides my own. One on one with another well mannered pup and the other owner and I interspersed their playtime with puppy obedience. That or a well run puppy class (like what rushdoggie teaches) would be the only ways that I'd want to have a pup interacting with dogs other than my own.

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Hey. How do you think Border Collies chasing and harassing the chickens goes over on a working farm? How many of those open level trial dogs do you think constantly nip at their handler, or goes after the other dogs out there? Do you think those dogs have less instinct than yours? Or maybe they just magically grew out of it on their own?

 

I'm not a novice dog owner. I didn't say anything about suppressing instinct, just not allowing a dog to be a brat.

 

I've got a border collie about the same age as yours. Guess what she's not allowed to do? Put her teeth on human skin, but a jerk to other dogs or harass the cats. Or chase cars. She'd really like to chase cars. That's herding instinct, too! If by herding you mean prey-drive and the desire to chase and bite things, which is all you seem to be using it to mean.

 

I've got a two year old German Shepherd/LGD mix. Guess how much he's allowed to turn that guarding instinct into acting threatening toward people? How about how often I let him turn the tending instincts roll into acting like a fence to block the cats and kids in? Or bark his fool head off all night long? Because that's all instinct, too.

 

I've got a Rat Terrier. He actively works as a squirrel dog and at clearing barns of rodents? How often do you think I let him tree the cat, or kill our small pets? He's 8. Guess how much of a problem not letting him do those things has been to his 'career' as a hunting dog or killing rats? NONE.

 

Or, oh wait, I know. How often do you think I let any of the dogs hump me? That's instinct. Or mark in the house? Also instinct. They're DOGS. They live with PEOPLE. They are completely capable of living by your rules and applying those instincts in the manner you tell them to and provide for them, without putting your and their own safety at risk.

 

No one who is unwilling to channel the instinct a dog has into behaviors that aren't destructive and dangerous - ie: drawing blood on people - has any business owning any kind of dog at all. You are going to end up with a law suit and/or your dog put down when she draws blood on somebody that isn't you. That's a huge disservice to your dog and to everyone around you.

 

Instinct is no excuse not to train or to let your dog be a rude, ill mannered BRAT. Get the dog a ball and a flirt pole. I'd say to get her on stock but if she's been allowed to run wild and apply her own rules and ideas about what is and isn't to be 'herded' and how, I doubt any person who values their stock would let her near them.

 

You are not 'helping' your dog become better, you are ruining her.

 

Again: My working bred puppy is younger than yours. She has not put teeth on human skin since she was 10 weeks old. She has not been allowed to chase the cats or be rude to our other dogs, ever. She has PLENTY of instinct, but she's learning how to USE IT and exercise self-control so she doesn't end up dead.

 

 

 

Finally!

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Hey. How do you think Border Collies chasing and harassing the chickens goes over on a working farm? How many of those open level trial dogs do you think constantly nip at their handler, or goes after the other dogs out there? Do you think those dogs have less instinct than yours? Or maybe they just magically grew out of it on their own?

 

I'm not a novice dog owner. I didn't say anything about suppressing instinct, just not allowing a dog to be a brat.

 

I've got a border collie about the same age as yours. Guess what she's not allowed to do? Put her teeth on human skin, but a jerk to other dogs or harass the cats. Or chase cars. She'd really like to chase cars. That's herding instinct, too! If by herding you mean prey-drive and the desire to chase and bite things, which is all you seem to be using it to mean.

 

I've got a two year old German Shepherd/LGD mix. Guess how much he's allowed to turn that guarding instinct into acting threatening toward people? How about how often I let him turn the tending instincts roll into acting like a fence to block the cats and kids in? Or bark his fool head off all night long? Because that's all instinct, too.

 

I've got a Rat Terrier. He actively works as a squirrel dog and at clearing barns of rodents? How often do you think I let him tree the cat, or kill our small pets? He's 8. Guess how much of a problem not letting him do those things has been to his 'career' as a hunting dog or killing rats? NONE.

 

Or, oh wait, I know. How often do you think I let any of the dogs hump me? That's instinct. Or mark in the house? Also instinct. They're DOGS. They live with PEOPLE. They are completely capable of living by your rules and applying those instincts in the manner you tell them to and provide for them, without putting your and their own safety at risk.

 

No one who is unwilling to channel the instinct a dog has into behaviors that aren't destructive and dangerous - ie: drawing blood on people - has any business owning any kind of dog at all. You are going to end up with a law suit and/or your dog put down when she draws blood on somebody that isn't you. That's a huge disservice to your dog and to everyone around you.

 

Instinct is no excuse not to train or to let your dog be a rude, ill mannered BRAT. Get the dog a ball and a flirt pole. I'd say to get her on stock but if she's been allowed to run wild and apply her own rules and ideas about what is and isn't to be 'herded' and how, I doubt any person who values their stock would let her near them.

 

You are not 'helping' your dog become better, you are ruining her.

 

Again: My working bred puppy is younger than yours. She has not put teeth on human skin since she was 10 weeks old. She has not been allowed to chase the cats or be rude to our other dogs, ever. She has PLENTY of instinct, but she's learning how to USE IT and exercise self-control so she doesn't end up dead.

 

Sometimes we just reeeeeeelllllllly need a like button on this forum. B)

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Dog parks are pretty overwhelming to me and even more so to Kieran. The first time we went, he just walked next to me and clearly didn't enjoy strange dogs running up to him to play. And there was this persistent poodle type dog that kept trying to hump him. It's not a place I take him anymore, since he doesn't seem to get any happiness out of it. Saves me from the cleanup afterwards, too, since our park is completely dirt mud :D.

 

Even though I like taking Kieran to pet stores, sometimes other people don't really control their dogs very well...this huge lab bounded up to him once and batted him hard across the face with a paw (out of play, according to the owner). Kieran is only 22 lbs. He had a "what the heck was that for?" expression, as did I. He must have a "pounce on me" sign somewhere on his body I have yet to find. Actually, it was kind of funny three months later, when I was at a restaurant with some friends for a doggie date, the same lab with his owner happened to be there for a doggie birthday party.

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Even though I like taking Kieran to pet stores, sometimes other people don't really control their dogs very well...this huge lab bounded up to him once and batted him hard across the face with a paw (out of play, according to the owner). Kieran is only 22 lbs. He had a "what the heck was that for?" expression, as did I.

My lab did that to me! Had a pretty nice black eye after it too. Same deal, she was being enthusiastically affectionate and playful. I am lucky enough to have other labs nearby to have her play with, and it constantly amazes me that no-one breaks ribs.

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My lab did that to me! Had a pretty nice black eye after it too. Same deal, she was being enthusiastically affectionate and playful. I am lucky enough to have other labs nearby to have her play with, and it constantly amazes me that no-one breaks ribs.

 

Ow! Labs are really sweet dogs (our neighbor has two), but their style of play doesn't really gel with Kieran. He's a bit awkward around other dogs. Not shy, just awkward :D. He's gotten along with every dog he's met, but a lot of them like to hump him for some reason. A passing dog trainer complimented him on how "polite" he is with others, but he's just being reserved by his own nature. He doesn't really know what to do when he meets new dogs, so he just stands there. I get a kick out of his facial expressions sometimes - his eyebrows are constantly wiggling.

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Ow! Labs are really sweet dogs (our neighbor has two), but their style of play doesn't really gel with Kieran.

 

Labs are nice dogs, but I haven't known too many border collies who've appreciated their rambunctious, in-your-face greeting and play style.

 

They'd probably be OK with any they lived with (or not), but meeting one out and about? Just not a border collie's cuppa tea.

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Labs are nice dogs, but I haven't known too many border collies who've appreciated their rambunctious, in-your-face greeting and play style.

 

They'd probably be OK with any they lived with (or not), but meeting one out and about? Just not a border collie's cuppa tea.

Haha, I'm not sure if Kieran has any BC in him - I was actually going to post pics soon in the gallery to see what people think. He definitely doesn't like the in your face greetings and dogs always seem to love to greet him that way!

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