SS Cressa Posted October 13, 2014 Report Share Posted October 13, 2014 So while I hope it won't be for many years, my girl, Cressa, is hitting double digits soon and has started to slow down. I know a few half siblings and her mother all passed at 12 years old. Which had me concern on my limited time my boy Val and I has left with her... Just curious on how much will change. She has been my heart for her whole life and I know I won't be able to handle adding another dog for a bit if she was to pass. I was wondering what challenges will I face with having a dog that has always had a buddy, becoming an only dog? He adores his big sister. I do eventually plan on having a second dog but it wouldnt be for a couple years. So what should I expect with him from her passing? How long will it take for him to adjust? Or to morn? Will he become more needy? Or is it more of an individual thing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gideon's girl Posted October 13, 2014 Report Share Posted October 13, 2014 When Gideons big brother passed, he mourned for quite a while. We still had another dog, but she wasn't his Buddy. We got another puppy pretty quickly, and he loved the pup, but it wasn't Buddy. He cut back on what he was eating, but he didn't quit eating. He moped around some, but not all the time. Mostly, he watched every Golden he ever saw and expected them to play like Buddy. He was disappointed when they didn't. Once the pup was old enough to really play, he seemed to get over missing Buddy, except that he still wanted all the Goldens to play. I think it took about 2 years for him to stop expecting Goldens to play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMP Posted October 13, 2014 Report Share Posted October 13, 2014 I've never had a single dog household but my dogs get very strange if away from their pack for too long - more than 2-3 days and they start being depressed. I suspect dogs have the same issues we do - they love, they get attached, they grieve at a loss. Some grieve more than others. I don't think there is a one size fits all answer for what sort of response a dog will have to loss, loneliness and handling your grief as well as his own. It will be hard. How hard it will be will depend on so many things that we'd need a whole site just for that You will have to manage your grief for your loss as you would for your children - carefully and with great regard for the cues they will be taking from you. I have a very large pack and we don't get very many years without a death - and some years deliver us more - this year I have had 3 dogs pass, two of them in the last month. The other dogs (and I) adjust, but it's not always fast or easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Coyote Posted October 13, 2014 Report Share Posted October 13, 2014 I think dogs just do better if they have at least 1 companion in the house. I'm saying that from a pet sitter's viewpoint. It doesn't have to be another dog. It can be a bird or a cat. I hate to take care of a dog in a one animal household if the people are going to be gone over 5 or 6 days. Those dogs start to get really lonely and I'm really glad to see the owners make it home. If there are 2 or more dogs they just do better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simba Posted October 13, 2014 Report Share Posted October 13, 2014 It's one of those things I never thought about having to teach a dog- how to be alone more than overnight. Our dogs do fine with it, I assumed everyone else's did as well, until I had to petsit for someone who hadn't left their dogs for more than a day or two. I don't know if dogs can assume someone is dead, but if they can, those dogs did. They mourned until the owners came home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentleLake Posted October 13, 2014 Report Share Posted October 13, 2014 I also believe that dogs do better when they're not an only dog. I think that's true of most animals, even fish. When I used to keep aquarium fish, I found that they always did better if there were at lest 2 of a species, with the exception of really territorial species that couldn't live with another on. The way I've always dealt with it (when I've had few enough dogs that it was a concern, which hasn't been often) is to get another dog before the old one passes on. That way the new one is well established and not "replacing" the other dog. But if you're not in a position to do that, your dog should adjust, even if it takes a while. Like people, dogs grieve differently, so there's really no way to predict how your dog will react. Hopefully you won't have to find out for a long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D'Elle Posted October 13, 2014 Report Share Posted October 13, 2014 I have thought about this quite a bit as well. Jester is 13 now and Kit will be 13 at the end of this year. Although Jester is doing very well, and if you did not know him you'd not think he is as old as he is, he has slowed down quite a bit recently. Kit's whole world revolves around Jester - more than it does around me, I think. If Jester goes first, I think that Kit will have a hard time of it, and I will have a hard time knowing what to do to help her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEC Posted October 13, 2014 Report Share Posted October 13, 2014 I also believe that dogs do better when they're not an only dog. I think that's true of most animals, even fish. When I used to keep aquarium fish, I found that they always did better if there were at lest 2 of a species, with the exception of really territorial species that couldn't live with another on. The way I've always dealt with it (when I've had few enough dogs that it was a concern, which hasn't been often) is to get another dog before the old one passes on. That way the new one is well established and not "replacing" the other dog. But if you're not in a position to do that, your dog should adjust, even if it takes a while. Like people, dogs grieve differently, so there's really no way to predict how your dog will react. Hopefully you won't have to find out for a long time. I have had elderly dogs who were slowing and declining in health, and have since passed-on. Both were only-dogs, who at their points in life had developed routines, and perhaps had become a little self centered and grumpy as they aged into their final years. Their places in the household were firmly established, and they were happy. In both cases we added a puppy before the first dog passed. Puppies being puppies, they did not always respect the old-ladies' boundaries and wishes, but no outright aggression developed. I can think of attempts to play on the puppies' parts that were visibly not appreciated by the established dogs, and at times they seemed upset by them. Things of that nature. Or just too much attention -- sniffing around too close -- would cause them to breathe heavily, and reject the puppies' overtures. In general, the older dogs seemed miffed by introduction of the strangers, or was it my imagination? I felt that perhaps we had been unfair to the older dogs, bringing a rambunctious puppy into the mix, and not giving the old ladies their established quality of life for the remaining months. Would always having more younger dogs in the home mitigate this problem? Our home/life-style are really are not, IMO, set-up to have multiple dogs for extended periods of time, but is that something we should consider changing? Are there methods that would somewhat alleviate tension between an old sick dog and puppy? Is it a matter of keeping them separated, if that seems appropriate? Is it a bad idea to bring a puppy into the house when the first dog has become self-centered and old, and may likely have less than a year left? Maybe a more mature young dog would be a solution? These are not rhetorical questions, and I appreciate advice/experiences, even partial. Hope you agree the questions are sufficiently related to the OP's concerns. Looking for discussion/suggestions/experiences. -- Thanks, TEC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maralynn Posted October 13, 2014 Report Share Posted October 13, 2014 My personal solution is to space dogs out by 3-5 years. But the oldest dog I had when adding a new one was 10 y/o and I added a 10 m/o. I was planning on adding a puppy this fall and would have had a 9 y/o and 5 y/o and a pup but then I lost my 9 y/o. I knew that *I* wouldn't do well with only one dog after years of multiple dogs so I added the pup earlier and my (depressed) 5 y/o loved it after the first 48 hrs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS Cressa Posted October 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2014 If Val needed I was thinking of maybe a smaller dog or an adult rescue. I didn't want a puppy till I was ready for one. I could get a boy but was hoping my next dog would be a girl and Cress has 0 tolerance for girls. Regardless adding a dog before she passes I just can't do. I was worried about him being lonely being by himself. And any behaviors he might show while mourning plus being all alone... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMP Posted October 14, 2014 Report Share Posted October 14, 2014 I think I would have one dog or three or more - but never two. If/when one passes the hole is so large for the remaining dog. In three or more dog households, they are a pack and not "bff" and the loss of one dog seems to be taken in a different sort of stride. We just lost a 14 year old and an 11 year old in the past few months. You can see and feel the change - as the pack shifts - and you can see some sadness in some of the dogs - but it's very much a life goes on environment when there are at least two left to sort themselves into a new order. We lost the pack leader, as these things go, and I did notice some ... jostling ... but it seems to have sorted itself and I believe it is a female BC who has captured the crown this time around. If I could not have many dogs, I would have only one and then it is just me to be sad and adjust and I can do that with a new dog to keep me occupied. I don't think I would add a puppy to an end-of-life dog's singular existance. A puppy is a terrible burden for an older dog unaccustomed to puppies. They are *relentless* and I think it would take the sort of control over the puppy's behaviour that would make everyone stressed and unhappy. Or maybe that is just me That would be WAY too much work of the wrong kind for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloria Atwater Posted October 14, 2014 Report Share Posted October 14, 2014 If Val needed I was thinking of maybe a smaller dog or an adult rescue. I didn't want a puppy till I was ready for one. I could get a boy but was hoping my next dog would be a girl and Cress has 0 tolerance for girls. Regardless adding a dog before she passes I just can't do. I was worried about him being lonely being by himself. And any behaviors he might show while mourning plus being all alone... I wish I could say otherwise, but I think Val would probably mourn in her absence. My experience with two dogs was early on, we had an Aussie and a rescue BC/spaniel mix. They were best pals in the world, but several years apart in age. The Aussie passed away at age 12, leaving the other dog alone at about age 7. The lone dog sank into a deep and visible sadness. She moped. She lost appetite. She lost a lot of her sparkle and spirit. It was really sad. So, we got her a puppy. But she had no interest in the puppy and we ended up "getting the puppy a puppy" a year later - which really meant we had a 2-dog cowdog team. The poor old girl just never quite recovered from the loss of her best friend. All that said, because she was a rescue we always knew that this dog bonded more strongly with our Aussie than with us, so it wasn't quite a "normal" pet-human relationship. Thus, her loss was undoubtedly deeper than if she had bonded more strongly with us. But still ... it's a big thing for a dog to lose its life long companion. Dogs are social creatures and though they love us, we can be a bit autistic from a dog's perspective. Thus to be left suddenly bereft of their own kind can be a hard transition. Val may be just fine when Cressa passes on. He may simply go kind of mopey and perhaps a bit off his feed for a while. If he does, then you may well be able to raise him out of it and help him beyond it just by including him in as many things as possible. It's really hard to say. But however you choose to address it, I'd say definitely prepare for some behavioral changes from Val, even if just minor, when she does go. Dogs do mourn and definitely feel loss. Best wishes, Gloria P.S. When dogs have passed at our house, this may sound grim, but we've always given the other dogs the option of seeing the dog who has passed. It's our thought that perhaps it may help them understand what's occurred. No idea if this is so, but it works for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gcv-border Posted October 14, 2014 Report Share Posted October 14, 2014 FWIW, I brought a new puppy into the household containing a 6.5 year old male and a 17.5 year old female. Although the puppy did occasionally jostle the old girl and give her unwanted sniffs, I don't think she suffered unduly. First, because she is old, she sleeps a lot. We would close the door to that room so the puppy couldn't bother her when we were not supervising. In addition, if the puppy became too rambunctious around the old girl, I would say "No Ritz" and pick him up to move him to another room or into the bathroom for a 60-120 second time out. I could really see a dimunition of pestering after 8 weeks. Now, 5 months later, he hardly bothers (purposely) the old girl. Yes, sometimes he may accidently bump her, but not often. I think if you can get through 2-3 months of close supervision and appropriate training, you could add a puppy without too much hassle to the senior dog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geonni banner Posted October 14, 2014 Report Share Posted October 14, 2014 My routine has always been to have two dogs seven years apart. I don't like to think about what vet bills could run to with two elderly dogs, and at seven, the senior dog has gotten over the young-dog nuttyness but is not too old to be put "out of joint" by a pup. My current situation of only having one dog came about when my Lurcher, six years of age developed a medical problem that I could not afford to treat. Not treating the condition was not possible. She would have died and/or been ill for a long time. Luckily for me and Grace, I was able to find the perfect place for her with two young professional men. She is happy, healthy and rising 12 now. And she lives with two other Lurchers. When my Doberman died, my Collie (literally) didn't seem to notice. (He wasn't the sharpest spoon in the drawer.) Blaise collapsed in the park while chasing a ball. She was dead in under three minutes. Sensei galloped around, lobbying for another ball-toss, only giving her body a cursory sniff. He was present when she was buried, but took no interest in it. He did not appear to grieve for Blaise, though they were pals. There was one time when he saw another Doberman at a distance and became very excited, but he soon found that it wasn't Blaise and lost interest. Though my Collie did not grieve for the loss of his canine roommate, my cat grieved for the loss of my Lurcher. The guys who adopted her send me pictures regularly. After she was gone for a year, they sent another batch. One picture was taken from a low - almost floor-level - angle, with a plain white wall behind her. I printed it out, large, and as my cat, Mugen happened to be sitting nearby I held it up for him to see. I didn't really expect him to recognize her or react in any way. But Mugen surprised me. He stared hard at the photo, leaning forward, nostrils twitching, and gave out what can only be described as a long, low moan. He cried twice more, and then I, weeping had the sense to put the picture away. Mugen was depressed for the rest of the day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urge to herd Posted October 14, 2014 Report Share Posted October 14, 2014 We lost the Buzz first, then about 20 months later Samantha. Shoshone did not plunge into a depression, but she wasn't interested in doing much but eating and sleeping. We got SuperGibbs, who was very respectful towards her, and she Was Not Amused. She almost had to be dragged out the door if Gibbs was going along for the walk, even though my ex and I walked them together. She wanted nothing to do with him. About 6 weeks in, I think it dawned on her that Gibbs was getting lots of treats, lots of attention, lots of treats, getting to go on car rides, more treats . . . All of a sudden she turned into a dog who initiated interaction with both humans. We got Gibbs in August, and in November I realized we didn't get one new dog, we got two. For the rest of her life, Shonie demanded (and got) more interaction with her humans. I'll never know for sure, but I suspect it was largely a jealousy thing for her. She never really liked him, no romping or anything of that sort. BUT, she had a more active last year of her life, and I like to think it was better for her than just being a border collie lump. It's probably a crap shoot, like so much else in life. I would never have gotten a puppy with a dog like Shonie in the house. Chances are great she would have hurt it, or even killed it. But an adult male, who was submissive to her, worked out well. Ruth and SuperGibbs, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alligande Posted October 14, 2014 Report Share Posted October 14, 2014 We got Rievaulx when Brody was 5, although Brody thought he was an annoying puppy they became very good friends and playmates. They never had a cuddly relationship but they had no interest in other dogs just each other, just wanted to enjoy each other's company. My plan was to get a puppy when Rievaulx was about 7, with the thought that Brody would be a grumpy old man, but very much still with us. Very sadly we lost Brody when he was 8 1/2, we had already made the decision that we would be moving to Europe and so a new dog was not a possibility. Rievaulx clearly mourned for about 3 months, Brody died at home, and so Rievaulx saw his body and was there when we buried him. I have written before about it, but there were trigger points on drives to walks that made him wail, it was a sound unlike any I had heard before. At first walks were hard as he really had no idea what he should do without having Brody with him to explore and sniff, we had taken them for plenty of walks on their own but now he just plodded along with us, slowly he learned that walks could be fun again and today he bounces along happily exploring. Rievaulx is now 5, he is a dog who is focused on humans, he does play with other border collies at agility practise, but other dogs he is not interested in. In the last year he has spent very little time on his own as he is usually with one of us. In a couple of years I will be getting a puppy and I am sure he will become friendly with him. My ideal would have been to adopt a senior border collie, to keep Rievaulx company and still be able to keep the age difference spread. I only have the budget to train and compete in agility with one dog and Rievaulx and I still have loads to learn which is why I don't want a puppy for another couple of years. And with our current unsettled life he is just going to have to stay a only dog for a couple more years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mum24dog Posted October 14, 2014 Report Share Posted October 14, 2014 When dogs have passed at our house, this may sound grim, but we've always given the other dogs the option of seeing the dog who has passed. It's our thought that perhaps it may help them understand what's occurred. No idea if this is so, but it works for us. A friend had two springer bitches and when the older one died the younger one watched her being buried, as if in triumph as described to me. After that she relished the extra attention she got. My bitch was horrible to our bc when we got him 8 years ago and still doesn't like him. She is now 14 and is having to put up with a new pup. She doesn't like him either but he isn't too pushy with her and takes no for an answer. When we have lost a dog in the past the others have barely noticed. The 4 adult dogs are paired by size but I'm pretty sure 3 of the 4 would adjust well to being an only dog if that meant they spent more time with me. To the OP - 10 isn't old. Don't taint the years your dog has left by dwelling on her dying. All sorts of things can happen in the meantime so take things as they come. Life has a habit of surprising us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Coyote Posted October 14, 2014 Report Share Posted October 14, 2014 I've never had dogs mourn each other. I think that may be because they are bonded to me not each other. They do play together and get along just fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D'Elle Posted October 14, 2014 Report Share Posted October 14, 2014 But Mugen surprised me. He stared hard at the photo, leaning forward, nostrils twitching, and gave out what can only be described as a long, low moan. He cried twice more, and then I, weeping had the sense to put the picture away. Mugen was depressed for the rest of the day. Geonni, that is amazing. Once again, I am reminded that we know very little about what our animals can or do understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMP Posted October 14, 2014 Report Share Posted October 14, 2014 Recently we lost a 14 year old. My dogs all seem sort of out of sorts, especially the older ones, but not so much that I am concerned. One of my mother's dogs (terrier mix rescue), however, is nearly inconsolable to the point of concern. He has not played, barked or gone outside voluntarily since Mikey passed. He will only eat treats and hand fed food. He does not cry or whimper - he just sits by the door and waits. Odd thing is, we did not really think them to be particularly close. I can't remember them hanging out together all that much. He has now started to act very aggressively towards other dogs (the only time he shows any life at all). He is only 5, so that has to be corrected but we are not entirely sure how to proceed. So far all the other dogs have given him some latitude but I can see the Scotties aren't going to let the little nipper away with crap too much longer (Scotties are serious about standing up for themselves - probably the canine version of the short man syndrome). I suppose dogs are like any other creature - individuals with their own responses to things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cass C Posted October 14, 2014 Report Share Posted October 14, 2014 When my grandma's 14 year old toy poodle passed away we had a six month old puppy that had grown really close to her. The puppy kept looking in the 14 year old dog's crate and would search the yard for her. It was really sad to watch, but a couple weeks later we decided to get another puppy to help us feel better as well as give the puppy a playmate. However, with time I think the puppy would have been fine. I've heard that the dog's reaction is partially based on how their owner's take the passing of the other dog. If you're really upset the dog is more likely to show signs of being upset. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted October 14, 2014 Report Share Posted October 14, 2014 This bears repeating. Unless there is a health concern that has you believing that Cressa doesn't have long to live, at 10 she's lived just 2/3 of her life. She could easily live another 4-6 years. To us, that doesn't seem like a lot of time, but in their lifespan, that's a good chunk of it. And all of my oldsters have carried on pretty normally up until about the last 6-8 months of their lives, so those additional years can be very productive ones, from a dog's worldview anyway. J. To the OP - 10 isn't old. Don't taint the years your dog has left by dwelling on her dying. All sorts of things can happen in the meantime so take things as they come. Life has a habit of surprising us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentleLake Posted October 14, 2014 Report Share Posted October 14, 2014 I felt that perhaps we had been unfair to the older dogs, bringing a rambunctious puppy into the mix, and not giving the old ladies their established quality of life for the remaining months. I know this is only an anecdotal sample of one, but many years ago my in-laws had an older mixed breed. They'd always had 2 dogs, but one had passed on and left the other an older only dog. They insisted it wouldn't be fair to Snoopy to get another dog, especially a puppy. No need to go into the detail about how and why, but my ex and I gave them a pup from the first of only 2 breedings we ever did. They always said afterward that it gave Snoopy a new lease on life. She was very happy not to be an only dog again, became more active and engaged and lived several more very happy years. The in-laws ended up getting 3 more border collie pups and Snoopy loved each one. You've got to make your own decision based on your own dogs and your own needs and circumstances. 10 really isn't old for a border collie. She may not follow her family's history. For your and Val's sake, I hope not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maralynn Posted October 14, 2014 Report Share Posted October 14, 2014 Maybe she's still got years left. Or maybe she'll be long gone by 12. Several of my dog's relatives lived well into their double digits but mine died at 9 (he was small and healthy so I was planning on him being around 'til 14-15). But either way I agree that there's no sense in dwelling on it if she is pretty healthy right now. Just enjoy your dog until you need to switch gears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alligande Posted October 14, 2014 Report Share Posted October 14, 2014 I know this is only an anecdotal sample of one, but many years ago my in-laws had an older mixed breed. They'd always had 2 dogs, but one had passed on and left the other an older only dog. They insisted it wouldn't be fair to Snoopy to get another dog, especially a puppy. No need to go into the detail about how and why, but my ex and I gave them a pup from the first of only 2 breedings we ever did. They always said afterward that it gave Snoopy a new lease on life. When our border collie died our GSDx was 13 and our plan was to give her a good few months to enjoy being an only dog, well she seemed to hate life on her own, so we thought a middle aged border collie would be perfect, so instead we got Brody who was only 31/2, well to be blunt she hated him, but she snapped right out of her funk and came bouncing back and on her last Xmas with us when she was almost 15 walked 4 miles because if the nasty little black and white thing was going so was she Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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