Is my pup a healthy weight?

[brookitar]

So Effie is almost going on 17 weeks now so about 4 months old. She weighs about 20-23 pounds. I've had a few people comment that I know saying she isn't growing very fast. When we first got Effie 6 weeks ago she was 13 pounds. She was the largest out of the litter. We feed her about 2 bowls of Purina chicken and rice every day with treats. Initially she refused to eat any puppy food...the Purina is the only food she will touch. Is 20-23 pounds at this age a normal weight? How big do adult border collies get?

 

Here is her most recent photo taken today.

[ourwully]

I am a first time BC owner so take what I say with a grain of salt but I recall hearing that it is good for puppies to grow slowly. That said, Effie is about the same weight as my Juno was at that age. Juno was around 9 pounds at 10 weeks and now she is a slim 40 pounds at 11 months. I have seen a lot of threads on weight and some mature dogs seem to be healthy at less than 30 pounds and others seem to be healthy at over 60 pounds. From my limited experience it seems like Effie is on track. I am sure others will give you a more reliable response.

Bill

[Betsy]

It can vary so widely, a full grown BC can be anywhere from 23-65 (give or take a few on each end), it really depends on their genetics. If you can post pictures that actually show her body while standing - one from the top straight down and one from the side we might be able to tell better. In general, if you can easily feel her ribs without pressing in too far (i.e. there's not a thick layer of fat between the skin and ribs), but cannot see them with the naked eye, she's about right.

 

There's a lot of debate about foods, but if possible, I would try to feed a higher quality food as purinia in general has a lot of fillers in it, so a good portion of that food in her bowl is not giving her any nutrition, it's just passing through.

 

There was a recent thread where people gave their dogs weights at various points in time as they are going, so you might search for that.

[Maralynn]

Slow growth is good My 6 m/o pup weighed in at 24# at that age. He was slim I could easily feel his ribs so that was the right weight for him. He is still slim and at 35# now.

[juliepoudrier]

Slow growth is safer for their bodies (joints and bones, especially). You can avoid at least some problems later if you don't encourage rapid growth in a puppy. A roly poly pup might be cute, but it is not the best thing from a long-term growth standpoint. Final size is largely genetically determined, so a slow-growing pup won't be at a disadvantage when it comes to adult size.

 

A good adult food or all life stages food should be sufficient. I usually suggest that people buy the best food they can afford and then let their dog's condition let them know if they are feeding the right amount. Feeding a "bowl" of food doesn't mean much without a size for reference. My youngster was getting roughly 2.5-3 cups a day (in three meals) when she was a little pup. Most of my adults eat around 2 cups a day, some (the easy keepers) as little as 1 cup. I feed a mid-grade food (Diamond Naturals). Purina makes some "better" formulations, but those are not usually available in the grocery store.

 

J.

[brookitar]

Thanks for the advice everyone! What are yall feeding your pups? I went with Purina because its the dog food my mother uses...and the third kind Effie tried (amazingly she liked it). She's a really really picky eater that's the only issue but I'm considering switching her food after this bag of Purina is almost gone. I don't know if this is true but someone I know suggested I cook rice and chicken for my dog? Is that really healthy? Growing up my mother always told me human food is the worst thing you could give a dog.

[CalamityJess]

Thanks for the advice everyone! What are yall feeding your pups? I went with Purina because its the dog food my mother uses...and the third kind Effie tried (amazingly she liked it). She's a really really picky eater that's the only issue but I'm considering switching her food after this bag of Purina is almost gone. I don't know if this is true but someone I know suggested I cook rice and chicken for my dog? Is that really healthy? Growing up my mother always told me human food is the worst thing you could give a dog.

 

Mine is 11 weeks, 8.8 pounds and eating Blue Wilderness puppy. And your Mom is partly right. However "human" food and dog food intersects at certain points. While we are omnivores, they are carnivores. So they enjoy meat as much as we do. Carbs and fat (to a point!) are also necessary. Many folks feed a Raw diet consisting of correct portions of meats, bone, carbs, and fiber containing vegetables and/or fruits. Chicken and Rice alone wouldn't be enough nutrition for daily feedings. HOWEVER! When your dog is having tummy troubles? it's one of the best options until they are feeling better.

 

One thing I have learned is feeding is subjective. For instance I've been feeding Science Diet for years now. As a result of that and the label instructions, my runted Boykin Spaniel who should weigh 30 pounds max at her size weighs 44. I noticed when I got my BCX puppy, he wasn't doing well on it. Runny stools (yellow, a sign of malabsorbtion), watery eyes, itching. I switched him over to Blue Wilderness puppy, and his stools are a nice healthy brown, mostly normal (he's a puppy so they tend to vary, plus he is still in the worming stage) , his eyes aren't watering and the itching has ceased. My spaniel has watery eyes, and a constantly irritated ear (Spaniel ears can be that way, but a better food may help). But each dog is different in what food they thrive on.

[GentleLake]

I don't know if this is true but someone I know suggested I cook rice and chicken for my dog? Is that really healthy?

 

Rice and chicken is fine short term for tummy upsets, but is most.definitely.NOT a safe or adequate diet long term! It will not provide sufficient calcium that for a growing puppy is critical (necessary for adults, as well), nor enough other nutrients either.

 

Human food for dogs is fine -- preferable imo, as long as the nutritional needs of dogs, as opposed to humans, is taken into account. I prefer a raw food diet, but a cooked diet made from wholesome, species appropriate foods (meaning little or no grains, starches or other vegetables) is still better than commercial dogs foods (again, imo).

 

But it's important to do some research to make sure you know what needs to go into a well balanced diet. Dogs have died because their well meaning but clueless owners fed them nothing but raw chicken breasts. It had nothing to do with their being fed raw, and everything to do with lacking calcium and other vital nutrients.

 

There's tons of information on feeding raw on the internet (and in the archives here) and for creating well balanced and nutritious cooked diets for dogs. Read a few to get a good feel of what you're doing (and to weed out the bad info out there) before you get started.

 

It sounds like your mother bought into the commercial dog food brainwashing. You might ask her what she thinks dogs ate before there was such a thing as kibble (only ~100 years ago).

 

Many, many dogs do well on commercial dog foods, so I don't want anyone to get the impression that I'm bashing people who feed them. It's not my personal choice, but I understand that feeding raw or home cooked meals isn't for everyone.

 

Oh, and the best way to tell if your pup is at a healthy weight is to put your hands on her. You should be able to feel ribs and spinal protuberances without having to push. As others have said, slow growth and a leaner body is best.

[wendybed]

My pup is 17 weeks today and she is 20 pounds on the dot. She was a little small for her age when we got her (early--at about 6 weeks and 4 pounds). I would guess mine s on the small side, but not too small. She makes up for it in personality

 

Wendy

[Cass C]

I'd love to feed raw if I had the time and money, but I recently switched to Grandma Z's grain free kibble, a local dog food brand, as Lyka who has food allergies suddenly decided she didn't like Merrick anymore... I think it depends on the dog as to what they feel like/can handle eating and the type of food you want to feed.

 

There is nothing wrong with chicken and rice as either a treat or temporary diet for an upset tummy, but it's certainly not a good long term diet. Just FYI a lot of boiled meats make fantastic and mostly healthy treats.

[brookitar]

Thanks everyone for the helpful information! I'm sorry I'm replying so late got a little busy this week. Yes I do agree my family has been brainwashed by that kinda stuff! Especially my mother. I'm going to have to go grocery shopping soon and will get Effie some well-balanced foods to go a long with her regular dry food. As far as healthy dry dog food over the counter what do yall use for your pups?

 

So for about three days now Effie has been really abnormally sleepy....she still has a couple hours of hyper play but other than that sleeps like a log. Whats more concerning is she suddenly refuses to eat her dry food that she use to eat 3 bowls a day. Now I can barely get her to eat 1 bowl. Occasionally she will eat treats from my hand. Not sure if this could be caused from teething? She's been losing her baby teeth left and right (but won't eat moist food). Today she pooped dark green solid stools. Has this happened to anyone? Going to call the vet tomorrow just in case...she has so many tummy issues compared to any dog I've had. She's had an upset stomach every other week since we've had her. Does this sound like Giardia to anyone? We've had her deformed for heart worms, round worms, and tape worms. I saved a pooh bag to be tested just in case!

[dsmbc]

checking in with your vet tomorrow sounds like a good idea. I hope all turns out well.

[brookitar]

Yeah I'm going to call them tomorrow. Wanted to wait until they were open since they have seen Effie multiple times. :/ Thanks I hope its something minor...just want my baby to feel better.

[Maralynn]

Discoloration can be a side effect of some meds. If she hasn't had any for the past few days then with that color stools I'd be a bit worried that she got into something. Any chance of that? Very good idea to check in with your vet in the morning.

[brookitar]

She had Frontline plus on Friday the 23+ pounds since she just hit 24 pounds. Even though its a topical medication is it normal to cause this kind of discoloration? Its a deep green almost like spinach. She never has been a grass eater!

[brookitar]

So just now she devoured her chicken and rice. (two small chicken breasts and a human bowl full or rice and small chunks of her regular dog food.

 

Today she has had...

 

-1 cup of moistened dog food

-6 square treats

-a bowl of chicken, rice, and moistened hard food

 

My fiance just spoon fed her the chicken and rice to make her eat....in the morning I put her at her bowl and told her to eat.

After the chicken and rice she has been running around acting normal. What causes a dog to just suddenly hate their dry food? I'll still call the vet tomorrow and ask them about the poop but does it seem like she's being a picky eater at this point? She ate the chicken breast like it was no problem....my fiance had to feed her the mixed dog food and rice so she would actually eat it.

[Camden's Mom]

I know it sounds like you've been a frequent visitor to the vet but I wouldn't put off another visit if her eating habits have suddenly changed. That's normally the first sign that something might be amiss. The sudden change in eating habits, lethargy and abnormal bowel movements would have me scheduling an appointment right away. Maybe it's nothing serious (not trying to freak you out of anything) but it certainly seems worth having a vet look into it.

 

Good luck and let us know how it goes!!!

[brookitar]

Yes I scheduled an appointment as soon as they could take her in. I'm taking her tomorrow at 9...I dropped her fecal sample off this evening. Luckily she ate some of her dry food today and is acting lively but still has some forest green poop. I noticed today it has an abnormally foul and strong odor....and she has been passing gas with the same weird smell. Need to get her other booster tomorrow anyway it's due....will probably schedule her to be fixed in October. I'll keep everyone updated on what it is. Best I could find on the internet is a possible intestinal infection or Giardia.

[gcv-border]

Good Luck with your vet appointment. I hope they can definitively determine what is wrong. If it is Giardia, be aware that it usually takes more than one round of treatment to fully clear. My vet had me bring in a stool sample about 3 weeks after the Giardia treatment so it could be checked for any remaining Giardia. And yes, there were still a few present so we did another round of worming for Giardia.

[brookitar]

I really hope my poor baby doesn't have Giardia. We just got rid of her tapeworms...poor thing is having all kinds of GI issues. Did your dog's stools look similar and greenish? Thanks I really hope to get to the bottom of things.

[juliepoudrier]

You may want to ask the vet to check another stool sample when you have her there. A stool sample that's been sitting for hours (or overnight) is likely not going to give true results.

 

FWIW, I had a youngster (now nearly 9) who drove me crazy turning her nose up at food. She'd eat anything for a day or two, including raw, and then decide she couldn't possibly eat it again. I was used to hoover vacuum type dogs so was constantly worried something was wrong with her. I finally decided to just stop worrying and recognize that I had a picky eater. About the time she turned 3 she started eating more normally, and when I bred her at 7 her appetite was better than it had ever been. She still has her picky diva moments, but she mostly eats well now (except when we're traveling).

 

That said, she never exhibited any signs of GI distress as your puppy seems to be doing. I'd guess that she's got a belly ache and just doesn't want to eat. Hopefully your vet will be able to sort her out. It may be that she will just need to stay on bland diet for a while (like a prescription diet) to give her GI system a chance to settle and repair itself and that you just have to continue with the deworming program for a period of time until the vet is sure she's all clear. (I'm assuming the vet told you that the heartworm meds must be given monthly and that heartworm is not the same as intestinal parasites?)

 

J.

[sandysfarm]

So just now she devoured her chicken and rice. (two small chicken breasts and a human bowl full or rice and small chunks of her regular dog food.

 

Today she has had...

 

-1 cup of moistened dog food

-6 square treats

-a bowl of chicken, rice, and moistened hard food

 

My fiance just spoon fed her the chicken and rice to make her eat....in the morning I put her at her bowl and told her to eat.

After the chicken and rice she has been running around acting normal. What causes a dog to just suddenly hate their dry food? I'll still call the vet tomorrow and ask them about the poop but does it seem like she's being a picky eater at this point? She ate the chicken breast like it was no problem....my fiance had to feed her the mixed dog food and rice so she would actually eat it.

 

 

 

have you checked to see if there have been any recalls on the food you're using?

[GentleLake]

will probably schedule her to be fixed in October.

 

She's only 4 months old now and you want to have her spayed in October? IMO, that's way too young. Most people believe now that you shouldn't spay or neuter before the growth plates are closed, conservatively at about 18 months old.

 

Plus, you haven't figured out what's going on with her yet. You should be sure she's 100% healthy before subjecting her to surgery.

[brookitar]

So I took her to the vet today. I used a stool that was less than 24 hours old so it was very fresh. They didn't find any kind of parasites this time around. The vet said she appears to have really bad allergies (we live in a very high allergy area) and gave her a Penicillin shot. He said her occasional diarrhea, vomiting, and odd colored stools could be caused by these allergens especially with all the dramatic weather change we've had lately. Mold and Cedar is high usually in the area we live in. He said it could also be stress from teething and hurting joints from growing. She pooped after the vet and its normal now. He reassured me she should be eating but she won't touch her food. I gave her ice cubes (something she enjoys) and she went to town on those. Basically the vet did not help at all unfortunately. :/

 

If this is picky eating like julliepudrier was saying should I give in and give her human foods that I know for sure she will eat? Also I made sure there were no Purina recalls on that bag of food and there weren't. She will eat her doggie treats and chicken breast. I want her to have the best dry food possible but the problem is will she even eat it. I wish they made dog food sample bags....

 

Also the vet is encouraging me to get her fixed before she goes into heat. Idk what to do really since she's still a puppy. All our animals in our family were neutered or spayed in the shelters when they were pups. Of course I would never get my dog or any animal operated on if they were sick that's just common sense. Is there evidence showing its bad to get them fixed before 18 months??

[chene]

Is there evidence showing its bad to get them fixed before 18 months??

 

Plenty. These are the articles that convinced me when I asked the same question (credit to Gentlelake for finding them):

 

http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/spay-neuter-and-joint-disease/?inf_contact_key=0b504c1a0fe6c089b3ecf4530f3389d0a4f7b2bfbaababa80b876d14a40bf5f5

http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/age-to-spay-or-neuter-ovary-sparing-spay-vasectomy-cancer-links/

http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/LongTermHealthEffectsOfSpayNeuterInDogs.pdf

http://www.petmd.com/dog/care/evr_determining_best_age_to_spay_or_neuter?page=show#.UgGfGW3j9Lx