Stubborn, Vocal, argumentative I hate My Crate Puppy!

[CalamityJess]

Housebreaking is going to be the death of me. Brody is sweet, and quick to learn everything except acceptable peeing and pooping places. So we are TRYING to crate train him. Which has led to a very unhappy and LOUD puppy. I have led him in with treats for days prior. Tried to teach him good things happen in the crate. I Have praised him when quiet, Put toys in with him. Nothing works. He continues to wail. Which leaves me stuck. Do I get him out and take him outside leashed while he's screaming at me and if he pees give him some free time? Or do I wait until he's quiet to take him out to try potty again? I should add I'm a full time college student (online) so crate training is the best choice since I can't have eyes on him every minute.

 

I just feel like a complete failure at this. I know he's still a baby and potty training doesn't happen fast. But We need some progress to start growing on.

[Maralynn]

Is the crate either enclosed or covered? If not, that may make a big difference.

 

What I would do - put him in when he's hungry with a stuffed kong. Cover the crate. Walk away.

[mum24dog]

What Maralynn said.

 

It may sound harsh but once you go back to a screaming pup you've let it know that screaming works. What you do now is setting the pattern for the rest of your life together.

 

As long as he is not in any danger of hurting himself and has something nice to keep him occupied he should shut up pretty soon. You just have to ride it out.

 

Traditional advice is to take time to introduce the pup to the crate as you have been doing - leave the door open, feed it in there etc but sometimes self preservation dictates that we have to consider our own well being and if it isn't working fast enough for your sanity shutting the door and walking away (ear plugs optional) maybe what is needed.

 

Fussing about around the crate can give the pup the idea that it is where it gets attention rather than the opposite.

 

I have had my pup for 11 days and feel your pain. The first night I could have happily sent him back but he quickly settled and only has a token complaint when crated when he doesn't want to be.

[TEC]

You now know he will not hurt himself in the crate while he fusses. As I recall, I made the same determination, and then began leaving my dog crated alone in the house for increasing periods -- something like half hour additional increments of time. She had nobody to fuss at. She was always quiet and settled on return. As an adult dog, somehow "crate-up" is one of her most reliable commands. -- TEC

[Root Beer]

Are you 100% positive there are no medical issues?

 

Bandit got like that a little while back. Fussed in the crate - would scream when I put him in there if he didn't want to be. He refused to pee or poo outside, only wanted to go inside.

 

I didn't think it would be a UTI because he was pooping inside as much as peeing, and I figured it was puppy development stuff, but I had him tested and it was medical. Soon as he started antibiotics, the screaming stopped, and he started going outside willingly, and the indoor accidents stopped - both pee and poo. He must have felt rotten.

 

I'm glad I got him tested and I would recommend it if you haven't.

[Maxi]

As well as following the advice that the others have given, I would also add don't expect him to last a full night. When my pup is very young (less than 3 months),I get up once or twice in the night and let her out for a quick pee (and then put her straight back in the crate as I go back to bed). then as TEC advises gradually increase the time he is crated.

 

Also whenever he goes out of the crate make sure he hasn't peed in his bedding as A pup won't usually want to sleep on a soiled bed. I use old towels when the pup is young so that they are easy to wash and replace.

[CalamityJess]

What Maralynn said.

 

It may sound harsh but once you go back to a screaming pup you've let it know that screaming works. What you do now is setting the pattern for the rest of your life together.

 

As long as he is not in any danger of hurting himself and has something nice to keep him occupied he should shut up pretty soon. You just have to ride it out.

 

Traditional advice is to take time to introduce the pup to the crate as you have been doing - leave the door open, feed it in there etc but sometimes self preservation dictates that we have to consider our own well being and if it isn't working fast enough for your sanity shutting the door and walking away (ear plugs optional) maybe what is needed.

 

Fussing about around the crate can give the pup the idea that it is where it gets attention rather than the opposite.

 

I have had my pup for 11 days and feel your pain. The first night I could have happily sent him back but he quickly settled and only has a token complaint when crated when he doesn't want to be.

 

It's a war between who's more stubborn, me or him...lol. He is finally being quiet. This time it took half an hour. I haven't been paying any attention to his tantrums, as hard as that is. No touch, no talk, no eye contact. It's been 20 years since i've had a human baby, and I remember letting them cry it out at bedtime too. If I wasn't waiting for a call I'd have headphones in...lol

 

You now know he will not hurt himself in the crate while he fusses. As I recall, I made the same determination, and then began leaving my dog crated alone in the house for increasing periods -- something like half hour additional increments of time. She had nobody to fuss at. She was always quiet and settled on return. As an adult dog, somehow "crate-up" is one of her most reliable commands. -- TEC

 

Thanks, a good reminder. I recently lost our Malamute/Shepard (nasal tumor) and he was horrible about being crated. There wasn't a crate that could hold him. He ate through the plastic ones, he learned to collapse the metal one's front panel to get out. He even broke a canine tooth once so I do worry about a repeat.

 

Are you 100% positive there are no medical issues?

 

Bandit got like that a little while back. Fussed in the crate - would scream when I put him in there if he didn't want to be. He refused to pee or poo outside, only wanted to go inside.

 

I didn't think it would be a UTI because he was pooping inside as much as peeing, and I figured it was puppy development stuff, but I had him tested and it was medical. Soon as he started antibiotics, the screaming stopped, and he started going outside willingly, and the indoor accidents stopped - both pee and poo. He must have felt rotten.

 

I'm glad I got him tested and I would recommend it if you haven't.

 

I'm sure. He was just at the vet Tuesday for diarrhea, which ended up just being a stubborn roundworm infestation, cleared up now. No fever, no signs of anything wrong, he politely left a very clear urine sample on the table too...lol he got a clean bill of health. Aside from the creepy crawlies.

 

As well as following the advice that the others have given, I would also add don't expect him to last a full night. When my pup is very young (less than 3 months),I get up once or twice in the night and let her out for a quick pee (and then put her straight back in the crate as I go back to bed). then as TEC advises gradually increase the time he is crated.

 

Also whenever he goes out of the crate make sure he hasn't peed in his bedding as A pup won't usually want to sleep on a soiled bed. I use old towels when the pup is young so that they are easy to wash and replace.

 

I definitely don't expect that. And when my husband is home, he has to be up at 3:30am anyhow, so he'll be able to take him out then, meanwhile I'm doing that. Right now I just want him to get used to hanging out in there quietly so I can tell the difference between "OMG I HATE IT LET ME OUT I AM DYING!" and "Hey, I gotta pee!".

 

I think he's asleep in there now. When he wakes up, hopefully he'll potty and can have some free time.

[Debbie Meier]

Something to consider, praising him when he is quiet is just going to get his braining going and wanting him to want more from you which will like lead to another tantrum. When I crate train I put them in the crate and walk away. I make certain they are never in the crate too long, for example each time I or someone else wakes up at night first things first, pup had to be taken out. After pup goes out and is put back into the crate, I don't play with them or anything, then I can do what ever I needed to do that caused me to wake up. If pup wakes me at night after being quiet, up I get and pup goes outside. Get the business done and right back to the crate.

 

I don't associate any play, treats or rewards with the action of crating or being turned out of the crate. I will feed them in the crate, but I don't make any pattern of food = crate though it don't take long for everyone to be leaping into crates the moment they hear the dog food bucket.

 

I recently sold a pup to Illinois that was 14 weeks old, he went through my crate training, usually begins for our entire litter at about 10 weeks old. Anyway, friends of ours took him with to his new owner, he was in a crate in the back seat of their truck and they were amazed that he never made a sound.

 

Also, be certain that he empties out every time before you ever put him in the crate. That will increase the chances of him not having to pee when he cries and then when he wakes up take him to go pee, that teaches him that cry=go outside. This is also why it's important to shake things up and not always play with him after he empties out, sometimes just put him right back into the crate.

[HJTRAS]

Our Border collie has been the most difficult dog I ever had to house break. Smart as a whip no doubt but out side she sees every bird hears every nose watches every butterfly and looks at every bee nothing gets past her. She is 7 months and outside is a wondrous world that potty does not include unless you have an hour or two. It is frustrating because I don't want to create her but she needs a quite place undistracted to go potty. its been a really tough long haul that is still on going.

[RemsMom]

When I brought my puppy home at 9 weeks she despised the crate and would scream when I put her in it (I really didn't know a pup could sound so horrible). I had experienced three puppies before her and the first night was a bit of a challenge, second night was better, and by the third night everyone was getting to sleep all night......not with Miss Nattie! I don't like to admit it but the first few weeks I let my puppy sleep with me at night and during the day I slowly got her used to the crate. My two oldest were home from college for the summer so I didn't have a room that I could close off and let the puppy fuss. It didn't take too long before she would happily nap in the crate during the day and, at night, my bed was puppy free!

 

Also, for potty training with a puppy that wouldn't stay in the crate I would keep her in the kitchen and take her out every 40 minutes. If she didn't go potty I would take her out every 10 minutes until she went and then go another 40 minutes (the timer on my microwave got a workout). Slowly, Nattie got used to the routine, slowly, she got used to the crate. By the time she was four months old she was sort-of housebroke (meaning someone needed to take her outside on a regular basis but no accidents) and liked her crate and was a very easy puppy to live with.

[Maxi]

Our Border collie has been the most difficult dog I ever had to house break. Smart as a whip no doubt but out side she sees every bird hears every nose watches every butterfly and looks at every bee nothing gets past her. She is 7 months and outside is a wondrous world that potty does not include unless you have an hour or two. It is frustrating because I don't want to create her but she needs a quite place undistracted to go potty. its been a really tough long haul that is still on going.

HJTRAS,

 

I sympathise completely,

 

I have to admit I do crate my pups because IMO it does speed up housetraining and as described by others, I find it is a useful precaution in case she needs to be crated for any reason in the future (I don't routinely lock my older dogs in crates, but they have the option to go into one without a gate if they chose to).

 

I also personally believe that the ease of house training is somewhat puppy dependent and I get the impression that this may have something to do with the pup's early experience when it is with it's mother pe-weaning (YMMV).

 

But I also think there may be a couple of things you can do to help with your problem, For example, my 5 month pup also gets distracted with playing outside and she used to forget to pee and poo on her walk. At the end of a session, I therefore put the other dogs away (less distraction) and take her on her own into the field without any toys. She still wanted to play but I encouraged her to play and sniff over an area where she had pooed before ( I walk back and forth over this area, stepping over some over her old poo while encouraging her to follow me). The smell seemed to remind her that she needed to empty herself.

 

Also, in the house, as well as keeping a close eye on her behaviour,I also make sure that any indoor pee or poo area is 'deep' cleaned. This ensures that there is no trace of a smell that makes her think there is a toilet area in the house.

 

Although she is only 5 months, for the last few weeks, now when she has finished her walk she seems to choose to go to that area herself. She has also started to sit at the backdoor asking to go out when she needs to empty herself. But I'm still keeping a close eye on where she is in the house & am also letting her outside at very regular intervals throughout the day.

 

Good luck

[dsmbc]

For crate training, I still think there is nothing better than using Susan Garrett's crate games. You can find lots of video clips on how to do it with a quick search. Why I love it, it helps your dog not only love their crate, it starts to teach self control as well. It takes about 30-60 mins to get through the first phase. I started inside, then moved my crate to the yard, then to the car, etc.

 

No matter how you chose to crate train, the main things to remember is: 1. be consistent, 2. Be fair, and 3. Don't train if you are frustrated - wait until another day. Your dog can read that and it will set you back in training.

 

On last thing, try covering the crate. A woman I work with brought in a pup to work with her. She had it tied to her desk. When she left for meetings, the pup had horrible separation anxiety and would just scream. I took one of my crates from the car and brought in, she put the pup in the crate and the pup cried, but as soon as we covered the crate, the pup settled down.

[CalamityJess]

Something to consider, praising him when he is quiet is just going to get his braining going and wanting him to want more from you which will like lead to another tantrum. When I crate train I put them in the crate and walk away. I make certain they are never in the crate too long, for example each time I or someone else wakes up at night first things first, pup had to be taken out. After pup goes out and is put back into the crate, I don't play with them or anything, then I can do what ever I needed to do that caused me to wake up. If pup wakes me at night after being quiet, up I get and pup goes outside. Get the business done and right back to the crate.

 

I don't associate any play, treats or rewards with the action of crating or being turned out of the crate. I will feed them in the crate, but I don't make any pattern of food = crate though it don't take long for everyone to be leaping into crates the moment they hear the dog food bucket.

 

I recently sold a pup to Illinois that was 14 weeks old, he went through my crate training, usually begins for our entire litter at about 10 weeks old. Anyway, friends of ours took him with to his new owner, he was in a crate in the back seat of their truck and they were amazed that he never made a sound.

 

Also, be certain that he empties out every time before you ever put him in the crate. That will increase the chances of him not having to pee when he cries and then when he wakes up take him to go pee, that teaches him that cry=go outside. This is also why it's important to shake things up and not always play with him after he empties out, sometimes just put him right back into the crate.

 

I hadn't thought of it that way, Thanks! I've read so much information it's all just so confusing. Feed them in the crate, don't feed them in the crate, let them cry it out, never let them cry it out... sometimes Google is NOT your friend. My initial instinct was to put him in there, let him have his fits, and eventually he'll get used to it. But then I find an article that says the exact opposite. We're down to about 15 minutes of fussing when he goes in, from half an hour. I was up twice with him last night to go out. But to be sure that's what he needed I did wait until he'd passed the standard 15 minute mark. Then he was up at 7, no point in my going back to bed at that point. He did relieve himself out of both ends even after I took him out, while I was getting dressed. My bad for not putting him in his kennel while I was upstairs.

[CalamityJess]

For crate training, I still think there is nothing better than using Susan Garrett's crate games. You can find lots of video clips on how to do it with a quick search. Why I love it, it helps your dog not only love their crate, it starts to teach self control as well. It takes about 30-60 mins to get through the first phase. I started inside, then moved my crate to the yard, then to the car, etc.

 

No matter how you chose to crate train, the main things to remember is: 1. be consistent, 2. Be fair, and 3. Don't train if you are frustrated - wait until another day. Your dog can read that and it will set you back in training.

 

On last thing, try covering the crate. A woman I work with brought in a pup to work with her. She had it tied to her desk. When she left for meetings, the pup had horrible separation anxiety and would just scream. I took one of my crates from the car and brought in, she put the pup in the crate and the pup cried, but as soon as we covered the crate, the pup settled down.

 

I did get a cover for it yesterday. I think that's what cut down the fussing. And now that I've fastened it in the front so there's no cracks he is settling even faster. I'm definitely going to work on what I quoted earlier. If he cries he goes outside without any extra fuss. He has toys, and water in there with him. It's too bad they can't understand "it's just til you learn potty manners, then you can sleep with us!" for motivation...lol

[d112358]

Our Border collie has been the most difficult dog I ever had to house break. Smart as a whip no doubt but out side she sees every bird hears every nose watches every butterfly and looks at every bee nothing gets past her. She is 7 months and outside is a wondrous world that potty does not include unless you have an hour or two. It is frustrating because I don't want to create her but she needs a quite place undistracted to go potty. its been a really tough long haul that is still on going.

Teach her to pee and eliminate on command. It's one of the first things I work on with dogs when they come home and it is very convenient.

[CalamityJess]

Teach her to pee and eliminate on command. It's one of the first things I work on with dogs when they come home and it is very convenient.

 

Oh mmy God I had a GSD that did that. I didn't actually know she could until I was freezing in 30 below zero waiting for her to pee one day (we lived in Alaska at the time, Military). I finally just said "Good lord Daisy, Pee!" and she squatted and peed. She was adopted from a fellow military family that unexpectadly had to leave and couldn't afford the air fare for her. That's also how we learned that she knew "go to bed". My kids were sneaking out of their rooms and I yelled at them "go to bed!" and daisy went into her kennel...lol

[CalamityJess]

So after reading all of this wonderful advice. Thank you all. I think I have a plan now.

 

1. Covered Kennel

2. Let him fuss. If he fusses longer than 15 minutes, take him out to potty

3. If he pees AND poops (after a meal), free time to play with me, toys, and our other dog for an hour or so.

4. If he only pees (after a meal) praise and back in the kennel until he does both upon going outside.

 

I'm also finding myself saying "you need to pee" or "you need to poop" consistently, then following up with praise when he does so. Hoping that teaches him what he's out there to do, and maybe learns it as a command.

[d112358]

So after reading all of this wonderful advice. Thank you all. I think I have a plan now.

 

1. Covered Kennel

2. Let him fuss. If he fusses longer than 15 minutes, take him out to potty

3. If he pees AND poops (after a meal), free time to play with me, toys, and our other dog for an hour or so.

4. If he only pees (after a meal) praise and back in the kennel until he does both upon going outside.

 

I'm also finding myself saying "you need to pee" or "you need to poop" consistently, then following up with praise when he does so. Hoping that teaches him what he's out there to do, and maybe learns it as a command.

 

If you want to teach 'you need to pee' or 'you need to poop' as a command, I would be careful about precise timing when building the association. Start out by saying 'pee' as you see him peeing, then shift to using saying 'you need to pee' when you're 99% sure he was going to pee anyway (already sniffing or lifting a leg). Same thing goes for pooping - when you start associating the command with the action, wait until you're sure he's committed. If it's just something you say when you go outside with him and you want him to pee/poop, he'll take longer to learn it (and may learn to ignore it as white noise).

[CalamityJess]

For crate training, I still think there is nothing better than using Susan Garrett's crate games. You can find lots of video clips on how to do it with a quick search. Why I love it, it helps your dog not only love their crate, it starts to teach self control as well. It takes about 30-60 mins to get through the first phase. I started inside, then moved my crate to the yard, then to the car, etc.

 

No matter how you chose to crate train, the main things to remember is: 1. be consistent, 2. Be fair, and 3. Don't train if you are frustrated - wait until another day. Your dog can read that and it will set you back in training.

 

On last thing, try covering the crate. A woman I work with brought in a pup to work with her. She had it tied to her desk. When she left for meetings, the pup had horrible separation anxiety and would just scream. I took one of my crates from the car and brought in, she put the pup in the crate and the pup cried, but as soon as we covered the crate, the pup settled down.

 

I do like that method from what I've seen so far! The only problem (temporary) is Brody is still not having consistent firm stools, which after his worming next week hopefully will clear up. I don't want to throw treats or extra food in the mix too much until that's resolved. Between the worms, and the weaning to the new food from the shelter food his tummy needs time to recover I think

[Maralynn]

I use "hurry up" with my dogs. Started using it with Kolt when I brought him home at 9.5 w/o. Take him out on leash, say "hurry up", he'll pee and then we play. We never do anything else until he goes so he goes right away when I tell him.

[WildFlower]

^ I do what Mara does. We don't play or do anything else until every goes potty. My dogs go on command pretty much, too.

 

With puppies or foster dogs, I stand in one spot with the dog on a leash and be as boring as possible. Then, once they go, I get all happy and excited. Then we play.

[CalamityJess]

^ I do what Mara does. We don't play or do anything else until every goes potty. My dogs go on command pretty much, too.

 

With puppies or foster dogs, I stand in one spot with the dog on a leash and be as boring as possible. Then, once they go, I get all happy and excited. Then we play.

 

Brody follows me very well. I find if I go stand in the grass ( and like you, be boring...lol) he'll come out, sniff around and do his business if he's hesitating at first.

[CalamityJess]

So what...26 hours later? And we have a HUGE difference in Brody. Just with the addition of the cover, and the water bowl, and some ignoring the commotion. He now goes in, fusses for maybe a minute or two and settles down. I do feed in the crate, I do it with my older dog too (our big dog would steal her food if I didn't before he passed). They eat at ~8, 12, and 4. I just have to wait maybe 20-30 minutes after he eats, take him out and he poops and pees quickly. Then he gets ~1 hour of playtime. Longer if I can have eyes on him so he continues to not have accidents. Now the only problem is he isn't fussing in the crate at all to let me know he needs to go...lol

[Camden's Mom]

I'm a little late to this post and you've gotten fantastic advice. It sounds like you are already making good ground but I still wanted to share my own experience. When I first researched crate training while my boy was a lil' pup I kept reading that the crate should be in a busy part of the house so that the dog does not associate the crate with being abandoned. I initially put his crate in our living room but we had little success. He just could.not.settle.down. Once I moved the crate to our bedroom it was a completely different story. My guy needed peace and quiet to settle down and rest because any motion or activity just got him worked up and excited. It sounds like covering the crate has made things better, probably because it blocks out a lot of stimulus, but if it's possible to move his crate to a private area that might help as well. Just a thought. Good luck on your continued success with the crate training!!

[chene]

I too am late to this thread, but I just wanted to tell you that you are by no means a failure. I just went through this stage with my own puppy (mine is about a week older, so literally just did) and it sucked, let me tell you. We did all the tricks, fed him in there, gave him special toys in there, but he just didn't care. Finally, we decided to graduate him to his big, open wire crate early (instead of the puppy-size plastic one). Immediately everything changed, he was totally fine. I'm also a full time student and I know it can get crazy, but I promise, it will all come together soon (and it seems like it is already starting to)! Best of luck with it all.