Dominance/Passiveness

[Will, Kelsey & Toby]

Toby just turned 8 weeks old, we got him when he was about 4.5 weeks (which is toooooo sooon). The problem we are having with him is he tries to be very dominant with us and our kitten, but is scared of everything else. I took him to play with my grand parents 13 week old Lab mix, and Toby just hides from her. I am getting kinda concered, sometime he will latch on to my are and shake his head back and forth.

 

My question: Is there anything beside traning and socialization that will help with these issue?

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

Can you describe the "dominant" behavior? Also, it might be helpful to explain the circumstances behind your ending up with Toby at such a young age.

[Will, Kelsey & Toby]

As far as being dominant, he will not let us roll him on his back(maybe not dominance), also he pins the cat down bites at her, takes all the toys away from her. Now that I am typing these it makes me think that he is just being a puppy not trying to be dominant??? I am just worried that when he grabs a hold of my arm and shakes it, and growls this is a sign of aggression.

 

We got him at such a young age because someone else actually got him before that and could not keep him so we basically adopted him from her. If there was anyway I would have left him with his siblings until saturday when he turned 8 weeks.

[Rave]

More background info and examples would certainly help us help you. I will say young puppies all need a place to "hide" when playing with other dogs. That's why all good puppy classes have chairs or the like. Give your pup time to get acclimated to the other dog, especially since he missed out on Doggie 101 by being separated too early from the litter.

[Rave]

LOL, sounds like a normal puppy to me. don't allow the pup to bite your arm though...teach him what is appropriate with you and with the cat. Not all pups like to be on their backs at first, but work with him into accepting this.

[Will, Kelsey & Toby]

Originally posted by rtphokie:

I will say young puppies all need a place to "hide" when playing with other dogs. That's why all good puppy classes have chairs or the like. Give your pup time to get acclimated to the other dog, especially since he missed out on Doggie 101 by being separated too early from the litter.

Is it "normal" for him to be VERY scared of other dogs barks??? He doesn't ever bark (Not that I am complaining). But it seems that he was good with the other puppy as long as she wasn't jumping, which required one of us to hold her, and she wasn't barking, as soon as he hears a dog bark he runs and hides. This is affecting house training since he stops mid stream and sits and whines at the door.

 

Any recomendations(sp?) for something to help with his chewing on EVERYTHING? I tried bitter apple and it seems that he likes the flavor. I know I read somewhere not to use anything spicy, so I need other suggestions. He has 2 kong toy, a couple of bones, a rope, and a squeky toy, just seems he would rather chew on the wood legs of the couch, and or the fire wood.

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

Wow, I'm horrified that a four and half week old puppy had already experienced at least three homes. Pet store? Thanks for saving this baby!

 

What I suspect has happened is that the pup was not stressed from birth to its placement, then stressed too much as the first fear response developed between five and six weeks.

 

Early gentle handling (as opposed to simply being ignored before weaning, as often happens with commercial breeders and back yard breeders) helps the puppy learn to deal with new situations. It actually develops a stronger nervous system that will help it face scary stuff in a normal manner later.

 

In nature, pups would face physical danger and discomfort, play at hunting, get into scrapes, and explore their environment. It's as important to reproduce this early "innoculation against fear", as it is to protect them from disease later on.

 

I'm hoping someone will know of a book that will help you proceed from here, with details on socializing the improperly-reared pup. I do know one important thing is to help the pup learn that he can trust you to make the decisions. That means, first, you won't expose him to harm, including interactions with bullies in the form of humans or dogs. Second, he is not allowed to make a decision about whether he will face something or not. Teach him gently at home to walk on a leash (don't combine exposure to scary stuff with learning the leash concept). Then quietly walk him around and when he has a freako reaction to something, ignore him. Take note of what it is, and later take steps to desensitize. Make sure he's always on a leash in a strange place, including friend's houses or whatever. It's a pain, yes, but it will be worth it in the long run.

 

NEVER pay any attention to your pup when he is freaking out, other than to attend to his needs. But also, don't try to desensitize him to the whole world at once. Be firm but kind, just like his mom would have been.

 

Make sure you are exposing him to only ONE scary thing at once, if at all possible. So, he shouldn't meet a new dog in a new place, or a new AND big floppy dog (like a lab, which many Border Collies naturally despise), or a new dog and new person at the same time. If he freaks out over a trash can, put a trash can in a familiar place. Instead of forcing him to play with a dog, put him where he can't run away and is forced to watch (like a wire crate), and go play with the dog yourself.

 

Most of all, work on developing a relationship with this pup yourself. Teach it what NO means - you've got lots of things going on where you can introduce that concept (aren't those puppy teeth great?).

 

I don't think the things you describe are necessarily dominant - just wigglyness - only a really submissive pup will submit naturally to being rolled and held down. Or a tired one! My pup is pretty dominant but not problematic - she just likes to test me fifteen times before she's SURE that I meant it.

 

Make some rules and be consistent in enforcing them. Otherwise don't agonize, just let your pup grow up naturally and take things as they come. I had a pup that came from a litter weaned at three weeks, seperated at four weeks, and came here just shy of five weeks old. She was a mental mess, but she had several littermates that did just fine. So that proves it's not hopeless, but probably not a good idea for ME to take on such a challenge again. Just kidding.

 

Good luck!

[Rave]

sounds an awful lot like my current baby puppy when I got her ... scared of dogs barking and chewing everything. Yep, that was her! LOL yes, that's normal puppy behaviour. Yes, you're going to have to train him to be OK with these things. For me, pup was never out of my sight (crated when need be) and she got a mild verbal correction for starting to chew anything inappropriate; also plenty of interaction with me so she would know which toys were OK to chew on. It's taken a few weeks, but she's learned not to chew everything in sight and has realized dogs barking are OK.

 

Hang in there! You might want to sign up for a puppy training class when he's old enough and/or enlist the help of a private trainer before then. Puppies are hard work!

 

-Laura

[Will, Kelsey & Toby]

Originally posted by brookcove2:

Wow, I'm horrified that a four and half week old puppy had already experienced at least three homes. Pet store? Thanks for saving this baby!

No not a pet store but a back yard breeder I assume. The lady I got him froms boss bread them and basically forced her to take him, well her landlord wouldn't allow him. So she came in to my wifes work so my wife offered to take him off her hands. At the time we were told he was 6 weeks old which wasnt too bad, but later we found out his birthdate and he was REALLY young. I am sure he will mature and be ok, just might take more time.

 

Originally posted by rtphokie:

Hang in there! You might want to sign up for a puppy training class when he's old enough and/or enlist the help of a private trainer before then. Puppies are hard work!

We are scheduled to get the second set of shots in the next couple of weeks, Then we plan on taking a Puppy class. We have been socializing him as much as possible, but it is difficult with him scared of everything. Luckily he LOVES all people, everytime someone comes over or close to him he wants to be petted or held depending on where he is.

 

Thanks both of you for the support, I am sure that everything will be fine I am just getting used to taking care of a puppy

[Miztiki]

I agree, most puppies do not care to be rolled onto their back. It's instinctual because it exposes their soft underbellies to danger.

 

All puppies chew. They will continue chewing for a long time! Do yourself a favor and keep the puppy in a crate or in a puppy-safe room when you are not with him. This will reduce the chances he has to chew, and will reduce the amount of times you have to tell him he's a bad puppy.

 

When he is out with you and you catch him chewing, tell him "no" in a firm, but not yelling, voice, and give him an alternative, like one of those bones you bought him, then praise him. Provide a variety of things for him to chew on; big hard bones, smaller chewy bones, soft stuffed animals (beware of squeakers, hard eyes, etc.).

 

Do the crate or puppy room thing though. It will make having your puppy SO much nicer!

 

Lastly, puppies, especially a BC taken from his littermates too soon, are cautious and sometimes scared of new things. A big, floppy Lab puppy looks like a monster! Try not to overwhelm him with too many new things at once. Reassure him (don't coddle him!) that the new thing is ok and he will learn to trust you and look to you for guidance.

 

Ok, one more thing. Teach him "bite inhibition". I think that's the proper term. It means teaching him not to bite so dang hard. Puppies have needle sharp teeth and will hurt if they touch your skin. It's best not to allow him to bite you while you are playing - or anytime really. If you're petting him or playing and he bites, tell him "no" firmly and stop playing/petting him for a little while. He will learn that biting makes the fun stuff stop.

 

Just remember that he's a little baby, and just like children, it takes time and patience. They have to learn. Don't expect the chewing and biting and all of that to disappear anytime soon, but it should gradually become less of an issue.

 

What I wouldn't give to smell puppy breath right now.

[Olivia]

I had a foster last last year who came from the shelter and had a very dubious background. He was not a border collie but rather a comic mix of lab, borzoi looking thing. He spent quite a lot of time with our rescue and because he was not as pretty as the other pups was passed over time and time again. It didn't help that he was terrified of everything, you couldn't even walk him into the store where our meet and greet was. Once you got him there he would lay down, refuse to look at anyone and if you touched him he would urinate out of fear.

 

My husband and I adopted out our puppy and decided that we couldn't leave Dylan, he was getting worse as time went by (at this point he was 5 months old and had been with rescue for 3 of those months). He came home with us and was terrified of anything new. Wouldn't pee for 48 hours, couldn't pet him, he would cringe and run away, couldn't get him into a pet store. I was very concerned for this little guy.

 

The thing that I found to help the most was to get him walking on a leash at home and then take him to the pet store parking lot and sit on a bench and not allow him to hide. He could sit beside me and take it all in. I gave everyone I could find cookies and asked them to give them to him but not try to touch him. When he would get scared (like a car backfire) and flip to the end of his leash I would freeze and let him calm down and them he had to go on. He had to deal with each thing that came up. He had to let people touch him, couldn't be a shrinking violet.

 

He is now a bouncy 1 year old. Loves car rides, playing with doggy friends, comes when called, sits and downs on command, is starting agility training (very slowly, still tends to be a little scared of totally new stuff but can now mentally deal with it). If you reach for the top of his head he will still duck down a little but will allow the pet, works much better to scratch under his chin first. All in all a sweet little guy who is still waiting for his forever home to come around.

 

I guess what I'm saying is don't give up. Patience, love, understanding, and consistancy will go a long way towards making your pup a great friend and companion.

 

Olivia

[Will, Kelsey & Toby]

Originally posted by Olivia:

If you reach for the top of his head he will still duck down a little but will allow the pet, works much better to scratch under his chin first.

Toby kinda act this way, he tries to chew if you reach for the top of his head.

 

He doesn't sound as bad as your pup, and seems to be getting better. I think it was just me being worried since he is our 1st puppy and I am expecting a lot. I am sure everything will be fine in the long run with a little training and a lot of love...

[Bounce]

I have a coworker who got under my skin by being very nasty about me adopting a blind dog. He thought Tex would be better off put to sleep. Now he's got a new pup and it's 8 weeks old. He's had it two weeks and he can't understand why it isn't housebroken. Every day I hear about the "dumb" puppy. Everything I've heard so far sounds like regular puppy behaviour but I can see the day coming where this puppy is going to get rehomed. Puppyhood can be a frustrating time, I wish you the best of luck with Toby. Theres lots of good advice on this board.

[Riley-dog]

You mentioned that he likes to chew on wood, even firewood. How about giving him his own chewie made of wood? Avoid pressure treated wood, and fresh sticks/split logs will not splinter as badly as dried ones. Then when he's bigger you can teach him to go fetch wood from the pile and bring it in when it's too cold out

[Will, Kelsey & Toby]

Originally posted by Riley-dog:

Then when he's bigger you can teach him to go fetch wood from the pile and bring it in when it's too cold out

That is a brillant idea, I always thought that him chewing on wood would be bad for him, splinters and digestive. Since I posted the first question I have relaxed a little, and he is still doing great. Now I am trying to keep him off the couch... This puppy stage better hurry up and pass, I am already crazy but this isn't helping.

 

Will

[CaelinTess]

I got Tess at 7.5 weeks... she is now a year and a half old... You will make it!!

 

Puppies chew everything. The best you can do is use a crate and a pen and then supervise carefully wnen you are there. If the puppy picks up an illegal item, trade for a legal item. This worked with Tess. As I type this, she is shredding something -- but it belongs to her, so that's fine.

 

Tess's greatest joy in life is shredding things. Fortunately she only shreds her own stuff now unless she gets ahold of some paper. We have to hide all the paper in this house.

 

Many dogs outgrow this chewing everything up thing. Tess did not.

 

Allie & Tess

[Riley-dog]

Originally posted by Will, Kelsey & Toby:

That is a brillant idea, I always thought that him chewing on wood would be bad for him, splinters and digestive.

Will

About ten years ago I had a Lab that got a cyst in the back of her throat from a splintered piece of pressure treated lumber. She threw up a few times, and we got her checked out by a vet thinking she'd gotten into a poisonous mushroom patch again but ultimately we just ignored it and it healed. That's why I'd suggest green wood instead of dried. My parent's Lab and my BC love to raid the wood pile and demolish logs, but I've never seen them ingest any of it. They just leave a pile of kindling. Just watch him carefully, and like bones, take it away before it gets too small and raggedy.

 

Belle the Lab retrieves wood for the fire, and I tried to teach my ex's Dalmatian. He was doing really well, but the training hasn't been kept up. And I don't have a woodstove