whistle as interruptor for reactivity?

[schrevolution]

Hi all, I've been trying to deal with my BC mix Ziggy's reactivity for a while now, and I'm finding that the hardest thing to do is keep him under threshold. I have a game plan, slightly adjusting our walk time and keeping them short so that I we have less chance of running into other dogs, which seems to bring out the worst of his reactivity recently and understandably terrifies their owners to see my nearly fifty pound dog lunging at their dogs. He's 16 months, and I'm trying to reduce this while he's still very much a puppy, but living in an apartment has its challenges. For example, we found ourselves surrounded by all three of his triggers yesterday, a cat hiding under a bush, a person approaching in the distance, and the sudden appearance of an equally large and equally reactive dog as we attempted to move away from the other two. So, I began wondering, for situations like this, where I know there are things out of control and we are going to come face to face with his triggers and sometimes he's going to react before I can even think, would it be wise to start training him to respond really well to a whistle? Or something equally loud/surprising? I've been working on teaching him a good "let's go" but when surprises jump out at us (literally with the stray cats around here) there's no making him leave calmly. I feel like a whistle blast would distract and confuse him enough for us to make a hasty retreat. Has anyone done this with success?

 

[CMP]

A whistle becomes important to me later in the training process - when I start training SaR specific things such as distance commands, etc. - but I use it for only one thing when they are puppies and I start using it as soon as they are in my care. That is recall.

 

I condition it with whatever works best for them. Sometimes it is praise, sometimes it is the last dregs (a lick, not a swallow) of my tea, sometimes it is food. I condition it slowly, methodically and consistently over many days and weeks - every day, several times a day but never in consecutive efforts. I do it from other rooms in the house, from around the corner, from behind trees and bushes, from behind closed doors, from inside the truck, from two feet away ...

 

I try and make it fun, but I never make it a game. A game, in my world, is always optional. If I throw a ball, the dog can decide whether she wants to play or not.

 

By four months or so it works 100% of the time in getting their attention - and about 85% of the time in getting their obedience. By six months it's about 95% where it stays until they are around 1.5 years old when it becomes 97-98-99-99.9% which is the best I believe is possible.

 

If you are going to use a whistle, take care to condition it really well, really carefully, really positively and really thoroughly before putting it to extreme proofs. I always treat it like the thing that *cannot* fail ever and so I try to make sure I set it up to succeed by conditioning it for a very long time before proofing it and then making the proof come in stages and with great fanfare.

 

YMMV.

 

So, to specifically answer: yes, it can probably work, if you tie the interruptor to something active (I think a passive response goal would be a mistake in your case - you don't just want his attention, you want to redirect his energy) such as a recall or a down-stay.

 

Good luck.

[schrevolution]

Thank you for the reply

I think I'll try to tread carefully with this idea, I've never used a whistle and he is my first dog. I think I'll focus harder on keeping him below threshold and maybe get a whistle to start developing a good recall and not focusing on it being the interrupter I was looking for. Hopefully that will help in the long term. I definitely don't see this as irreversible, hopefully we'll work through it. Today was dramatically better though, he didn't get the chance to react once, so just one day at a time.

[Tess's Girl]

Does he like to tug? My thought was to engage him in a really exciting tug game while you move away. That was he has an alternate way to redirect that stress and you can move him quickly to where he is below threshold.

 

And I feel your pain. I also live in the city with a reactive dog, though she is of the "IHAVETOGETOUTHEROFHERENOWIMGOINGTODIE" variety. We've worked through many things but it gets hard when I meet all three of her triggers at the same time. Hers are screaming/running children, skateboards/scooters, and the horror of all horrors, bouncing basketballs.

[schrevolution]

He does like tug, but I don't know if he likes it enough to redirect to that when his triggers are present. Maybe I can build up his desire to tug more and bring a rope with me and see. The dogs and people are the main issues, I've decided I don't really care about the cats, since my neighbor has been allowing her cat to roam free and he actively follows us when he spots us on walks O_O. Today he was on the stairs waiting for us when I tried to get back to my apartment, and when we backtracked around some cars to get out of his way, I realized he had disappeared, and knew that he was now under the cars trying to get to us! I hope this doesn't turn out badly but there's not much I can do if he continually is putting himself in the way But the tug idea is a good one, I try to make every walk a time for training as well so maybe I'll switch it up and try this for a little bit.

[ourwully]

I have similar problems to you. Juno's triggers are cars, people, other animals. The cars I have pretty well under control by using the ' look at that game" from Leslie McDevitt's book Control Unleashed The Puppy Program. Basically I started with an object for her to look at. When she looked at it I would say good girl and then when she looked at me I would give her a treat. From there I had her look at moving things and eventually to cars, trucks, motorcycles and bicycles. So if we are walking along and a car is coming I say"Look at the car". When she looks at the car I say good girl and when she looks at me I give her a treat. I really know it is working when she tracks the car and then looks at me. She hasn't tried to chase a car in some time now.

 

I have tried this game with joggers, other dogs etc but I haven't had as much success. Her desire to meet other people and animals is just too great at this time but I am still working at because I think it will work eventually. It was also suggested to me on another thread that I should get down at the dogs level and calm her when the distractions appear rather than holding her back on the leash. I have only just strarted trying this but it does seem to be working. This morning on our walk we met two dogs so both times I got down to her level, gave her a big hug and calmly told her to be good and calm down. I could still feel her wanting to get at the other dogs but not as wildly. It was a lot better than her pulling madly on the leash. The other suggestion I was given was to get between her and the distraction and block her but this doesn't seem to be as effective as the calming her down at her level method.

 

I am also going to try the tug idea also but ultimately I think the "Look at that game" is the way to go because the dog gets rewarded for looking at the distraction and then ignoring it. The other methods seem to rely on creating a bigger distraction than the initial distraction. I am a rank beginner so take my comments with a grain of salt.

 

Bill

[ourwully]

CMP - I am going to follow your detailed advice re whistle training. Right now Juno's recall is pretty good but I have always thought a whistle would be a good idea. I bought a training whistle that fits in your mouth a while ago but I was waiting for Juno to get older before I trained myself how to whistle properly. I am guessing from what you have said that the whistle you are describing above is more like a regular referee's whistle. So should I just get a regular whistle and start working it into the recall?

Thanks

Bill

[CMP]

I use a sports whistle. Later I use a variable tone whistle for distance commands, but I train the recall on a sports whistle and graduate to a voice-whistle (I just whistle myself) when they're about a year. Anything that does not bother your ears or his.

 

Some pointers from my experience, if you are going to do something similar:

 

1. Try hard to never let it fail. Start from short distances and if the dog does not come, you go to it (be careful not to aggressively walk or walk like you are mad - body language should be something like "oh, you haven't gotten this yet, I am coming to help you") and move the dog either by picking it up or leading it away on a leash to the place you were when you called. This should be a positive correction. "Good dog" all the way back to the place and then a jackpot treat of some kind. If you are using food, the jackpot has to be high value - boiled hotdogs or pieces of pumpkin or whatever your dog *loves*.

 

 

2. Remember your body language includes your voice modulation and always check yourself if you are getting frustrated (although not doing any consecutive conditioning will help with this - by consecutive I mean one right after the other - wait at least ten minutes between tries )

 

3. You CAN "load" the whistle like one does with a clicker - that is, blow the whistle, give a treat, blow the whistle, give a treat - 10-15-20 times until the dog gets the whistle equals treat.

 

4. Don't set the dog to fail - take small successes and build on them - don't try proofing until it is really, really well conditioned.

 

Good luck. I look forward to hearing how it worked out.

 

Disclaimer: I am NOT a professional trainer - I have just trained a lot of dogs.

 

[d112358]

I have tried this game with joggers, other dogs etc but I haven't had as much success. Her desire to meet other people and animals is just too great at this time but I am still working at because I think it will work eventually. It was also suggested to me on another thread that I should get down at the dogs level and calm her when the distractions appear rather than holding her back on the leash. I have only just strarted trying this but it does seem to be working. This morning on our walk we met two dogs so both times I got down to her level, gave her a big hug and calmly told her to be good and calm down. I could still feel her wanting to get at the other dogs but not as wildly. It was a lot better than her pulling madly on the leash. The other suggestion I was given was to get between her and the distraction and block her but this doesn't seem to be as effective as the calming her down at her level method.

 

I would skip the hugging or anything that might be interpreted as physical restraint. Most dogs don't really enjoy hugs, it goes against most of their natural body language and seems like there's a decent potential for a bite if you're doing it as the dog is getting worked up.

[ourwully]

CMP - I loaded the whistle yesterday morning and then used it at very short distances a few times through the day. I was wondering if I should also say come when I blow the whistle or just blow it when I know she is going to come for sure?

Thanks

Bill

[CMP]

Oh yes, you must still give the command. Or I do, anyway.

 

I use the whistle, really, as an attention getter. Then I give the command to come combined with her name.

 

So, --blow whistle-- yell (in a very positive voice like you've got something cool to show her) "Juno! Come!"

 

Later that attention to the whistle will be the cornerstone and you can use it to offer other commands.

 

If it ALWAYS means come, eventually she will be conditioned and will start coming towards you when she hears the whistle. But you need to combine it with a command in the beginning so it is associated with an action.

 

I cannot stress enough how important it is to make a big deal of it when she comes and how important it is to NOT make a negative big deal when she does not.

 

Had you had her conditioned to it already, the whistle would have helped with the rabbit. It would not have stopped her from wanting to get to the rabbit, but you would have grabbed her attention for long enough for her to check herself and for you to develop an exit strategy. In that situation I would have probably insisted on a down-stay and got down with her and played a little of the "look at that" game - that "let's check this out together, pal" sort of thing.

 

Take it or leave it (and again, I am not a professional trainer) but I have always found that trying to find ways to allow a puppy to have its very normal reactions but stay safe and contained is better than trying to make them NOT have a normal reaction. A rabbit would make ANY puppy crazed. So in that case I would have let her check it out - from a down-stay - more or less until she was ready not to be interested in it.

 

Mind you, I have also spent the night in a very large crate with a puppy that was suffering from crate-fear so badly that he shook like a leaf. Not everyone would take *that* route :/

[ourwully]

CMP - Thanks once again! It is perfectly clear now and should work a treat because she is already pretty good with both the verbal and hand signal recalls. I also like your advice re the rabbit. There is so much to learn but I think it often goes back to reaching an agreement with the puppy. Next time the bad rabbit jumps us I will do the Look at That game with her until she settles down. I have a great image of you and your dog in the crate. I bet the wife loved it!

Thanks again

Bill

[ourwully]

I am just learning how to post pictures so I have put one of Juno in her igloo. Sorry if this is the wrong place for pictures but I thought some of the people who have given me great suggestions might like to see her.

Bill

[CMP]

She's beautiful! I have never seen a dog-igloo before - that's awesome

[Maxi]

She looks so relaxed and content. Not surprised you think the world of her

[ourwully]

CMP - The whistle training is coming along really well. I am only using it when I am sure she will come and I am using it sparingly. She was at the bottom of the yard this morning when I came out of the house. Usually I call her and she comes bounding up so I thought I will take a chance and give her the whistle. I blew it loudly and up she came. I am one of those people who doesn't like to yell or be yelled at so I am really excited by the whistle. Even if it takes months to get her fully trained to it I will be really happy.

 

I got the igloo when it was still winter here but she never started using it until about a month ago. Now she goes in regularly. It is insulated, vented, and nice and big inside for her and it is light enough to move around. In the winter I am going to put a door on it so she can keep warm if she wants to be outside. When I do training outside I usually start by telling her to go to her house. She is almost 100% compliant. Then I tell her to put both feet up which she now does automatically and stay or wait. I was going to build a house for her but the igloo seemed to offer more advantages. I did think it was a bit expensive but over the long run these things average out.

 

Cheers

Bill.

[ourwully]

CMP - It has been a little over 2 months now using the whistle once or twice a day for recall. Like you suggested I have tried to use it only in sure to work conditions. Lately I have been a little more trusting and so far I think I have only had one or two failures since I started. Today in the woods, I used it twice when she was well out of sight. I am happy to report that she came out of the woods like she was shot out of a cannon. I have been using hot dog pieces or cheese when she comes to the whistle. I'm not ready to really test her yet but she is making really good progress now. Thanks again for the detailed advice!!

 

I am also using the hot dogs, cheese, chicken, for the remote down command and I am doing it in the same way as the whistle command. We've only been at it a week but we're making good progress already.

 

Thanks

Bill

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[ourwully]

CMP - Its been 4 months now that I have been working with the whistle a few times a day but lately I have been using it 4 or 5 times a day. In many ways it is turning into my main type of recall. I am still fairly judicious in my timing but it is turning out to be really effective. Juno meets a black lab most mornings and now she is pretty well trained to my whistle as well as I give them both a treat when they respond. 4 months seems like a long time to build a recall but now that it is working so well it seems like 4 months well spent. Really it wasn't a lot of work, just patience and a couple of carefully timed whistles a day. Thanks again.

Bill

[jvw]

kudos to you for your patience and diligence!