HangingTree Posted July 24, 2014 Report Share Posted July 24, 2014 Hello! I recently wrote a post asking for advice on handling an intact male. However, I have no idea what the difference are in terms of the dog's working ability.. In your opinion, is there a difference? Is one 'better' at working(herding, tracking, search, whatnot), or does neutering not make a difference in the working abilities? Do either have more or less spunk/energy? Bravery? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted July 24, 2014 Report Share Posted July 24, 2014 I don't believe that neutering, in general, makes a change in terms of the dog's or bitch's abilities. I believe it *can* for some animals, allow them to focus better, at least with regards to non-stock activities because it removes a potential distraction. I say for non-stock working because a good stock dog should not be distracted when it is working. Focus and intensity of focus is part of the suite of characteristics of the working Border Collie. Some animals that are too easily distracted, may settle down and work stock (or do other activities) better after neutering (and a dog that is easily distracted from its stock really isn't breeding material anyway, so why not?). I have heard of people who felt that a particular animal did not work as well after neutering but I think that is likely an individual thing - and who is to say that that animal might not have changed even if not neutered? There is no "control" to compare that animal to. And there are some animals that their handlers have found improved after neutering. There seem to be anecdotes either way. I think this is likely a case-by-case situation. I wonder also if the time of neutering is more important than whether or not an animal is neutered - neutering too early can (I believe) cause physical issues (skeletal growth issues) and also (again, I believe) some temperament issues (done at the wrong time, I wonder if it doesn't allow the dog/bitch to develop adult confidence, etc., the same way that not neutering at that age would). Neutering an older animal will likely not cause much in the way of temperament changes as the temperament and personality of the animal will be in a pretty well set pattern by that time. I think it's a complex issue, and all of these are, as you said and I said, "in my opinion". Others who have much better experience and information will probably give you much better responses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maralynn Posted July 24, 2014 Report Share Posted July 24, 2014 I had 2 different Border Collies altered after they were adults - one at 2 y/o, one at 6 y/o. They were both working dogs and their personality, drive and work ethic didn't seem to change at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HangingTree Posted July 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2014 Thank you so much for your replies! I'm struggling quite a lot here with the decision making.. I've heard that neutered dogs tend to be energetic and just aren't as good when it comes to tracking and obedience (don't know if they meant it about herding as well) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentleLake Posted July 24, 2014 Report Share Posted July 24, 2014 I know it's only one example, but a friend's English Shepherd was neutered at 6 months old. She started SAR training with him when he was about 18 months old and he was quickly out searching the seasoned dogs. I think most of these things have more to do with an individual dog's temperament and talents than whether the dog's been spayed or neutered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCStarkey Posted July 24, 2014 Report Share Posted July 24, 2014 Hello HangingTree, I have always felt that neutering a male dog doesn't nothing to change his personality, but it does change his priorities. If he is confident and outgoing before neutering, he still will be after neutering. If he has true talent and ability when it comes to stockwork, he will still be just as capable after neutering. However, neutering will likely change his priorities and change them for the better! If you wish to pursue tracking and agility, then your neutered dog won't be distracted by his hormones while training and competing in those endeavors. Your dog's priority after neutering will be you (and not the scent of an in season bitch). Also, please don't believe the misconception that a dog will no longer have the same "drive" after neutering. There are far too many neutered males competing in all venues that would prove that theory wrong. Regards, nancy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted July 24, 2014 Report Share Posted July 24, 2014 Nancy summed it up, short and sweet! Hello HangingTree, I have always felt that neutering a male dog does nothing to change his personality, but it does change his priorities. Regards, nancy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz P Posted July 24, 2014 Report Share Posted July 24, 2014 I think neutering too young can be detrimental to their work (goofy puppy brain). Neutering after maturity can allow them to focus more. However, it does not affect their overall ability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HangingTree Posted July 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2014 Thank you guys! It's nice to hear that his personality will stay the same regardless! I do wish for his focus to be on (and for his priority to be) me, but I'm worried that he won't be as lively, playful and eager to work if he is neutered.. Some people (especially in my country where neutering is looked down upon by a lot of people) really think neutering makes the dog unable to reach it's full potential, and that it will be calmer than if it was intact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geonni banner Posted July 25, 2014 Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 The only thing I can add to this discussion is that a male dog who is sexually experienced - even only one time - will often still be interested, and may even cover a female in heat. Since he would be "shooting blanks" there is no danger of and oops litter, but if you neuter an experienced male to "keep him home," you will be disappointed. I've known neutered males that were interested in estrus females, but none who had never had sex. In either case, the dogs' personalities, drive and activity levels were unchanged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentleLake Posted July 25, 2014 Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 I had a male lab/pointer mix who was neutered at 9 months old, never bred. He tied with females in heat a number of times. I've known of a couple others. I don't think it's all that unusual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted July 25, 2014 Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 My neutered male will tie with a female in heat if allowed. None of my other neutered males ever even tried. Individual dogs.... J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald McCaig Posted July 28, 2014 Report Share Posted July 28, 2014 Dear Doggers, I don't see a lot of castrated males. Most sheepdoggers don't do it w/o a medical reason. I've seen a half dozen (under 2) castrated Border Colles at clinics. Most lacked keenness and as such were harder to train. I've seen any number of eunuchs castrated after they were trained w/o ill effect. Donald McCaig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mum24dog Posted July 28, 2014 Report Share Posted July 28, 2014 Could it be that it had already been recognised that those dogs didn't really have what it takes, hence the neutering ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mum24dog Posted July 28, 2014 Report Share Posted July 28, 2014 Also, please don't believe the misconception that a dog will no longer have the same "drive" after neutering. There are far too many neutered males competing in all venues that would prove that theory wrong. Regards, nancy This.^^^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highway61 Posted July 28, 2014 Report Share Posted July 28, 2014 Dear Doggers, I don't see a lot of castrated males. With the vast number of rough coat BCs are you saying you don't see a lot of castrated males, in your own judgment, by the way they behave? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald McCaig Posted July 29, 2014 Report Share Posted July 29, 2014 Dear Doggers, Most Border Collies I see are sheepdogs and sheepdoggers don't (routinely) castrate their dogs. My friend Leo learned a Morally Correct Ignorant Farm wanted to get rid of their 2 year old started Border Collie. At a novice trial the dog ran not great but ok. Leo's a working sheepman and ok is ok. When he got the dog home he learned it was castrated. Leo still laughs about it. The dog, by the way, worked out fine and will live out his life on Leo's farm. Donald McCaig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highway61 Posted July 29, 2014 Report Share Posted July 29, 2014 I remember reading a similar thread last year where some posters were chiming in on the change in the coat after neutering. I tried searching for it but no luck. Did I dream that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geonni banner Posted July 30, 2014 Report Share Posted July 30, 2014 I've seen coat changes in adult Rough Collies post-neuter. But not all, by any means. The dogs that I saw which underwent surgery after a couple of years of age had more undercoat and softer hair in general. But most dogs had no changes, and a couple of the dogs that did have coat changes were diagnosed with thyroid problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mum24dog Posted July 30, 2014 Report Share Posted July 30, 2014 Coat changes post neuter are most commonly seen in spaniel types. It can happen in BCs but it is pretty unusual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jescano Posted August 3, 2014 Report Share Posted August 3, 2014 Hello HangingTree, I have always felt that neutering a male dog does nothing to change his personality, but it does change his priorities. Regards, nancy As in... less interested in sniffing/marking and other intact males and more interested in you? Is this true even if done after 18-24 months? And they're in the habit of sniffing and marking outside. Dog is a year old now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mum24dog Posted August 3, 2014 Report Share Posted August 3, 2014 As in... less interested in sniffing/marking and other intact males and more interested in you? Is this true even if done after 18-24 months? And they're in the habit of sniffing and marking outside. Dog is a year old now. I had a confident dog neutered at 13 months. He never stopped marking and was never very interested in what people wanted him to do unless it was made worth his while. I doubt that he would have stopped marking if left longer. I have a timid dog neutered at 6 months before I got him. He does it too but he's a terrier and they're prone to it. He is a very people focussed dog. My other 3 neutered dogs (all done around 6 months and none suffering any adverse conditions by it) have never marked. Conclusions? None. Too small a sample but I suspect that the one done at 13 months may not have marked as much if done earlier. No proof though. And in fairness I know some entire dogs that mark and some that don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jescano Posted August 3, 2014 Report Share Posted August 3, 2014 It's not so much the marking I want to stop... I just want him to pay better attention and not be so distracted by smells. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Betsy Posted August 3, 2014 Report Share Posted August 3, 2014 I have nothing to add, I know nothing about this. But I do have a question. If you know for a fact that you will be neutering (or spaying) your puppy when you get the dog, is there a benefit to waiting past 6 - 8 months of age? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maralynn Posted August 3, 2014 Report Share Posted August 3, 2014 Betsy - recent studies in both Golden Retrivers and Labradors seem to show that allowing the dog to stay intact until fully mature has a positive effect on joint health. It also seems to show an overall lower risk of some common cancers for males left intact longer. Results are more mixed with females with the same cancers. So it's definitely worth discussing with your vet if you can manage your dog to avoid unplanned breeding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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