Need Help Choosing the Best Method

[M.L.]

I know that there have been many posts on this topic, but I would appreciate any advice specific to my BC, Bailey. He pulls like crazy. It is intolerable to take him for a walk. He gets plenty of exercise, 3-4 hours of something other than walking a day (swimming, fetch, frisbee, agility), so I'm pretty sure it isn't due to lack of exercise.

 

I have tried "being a tree" and changing directions, each consistently for months. He has no interest in even the yummiest of treats. I have only been using his regular flat collar. The slip collar has no effect on him (I am sure that I am using correctly and at the appropriate times) so I don't use that because I don't want to injure his neck. What next? Prong collar, halti? Any other suggestions?

 

Bailey is very headstrong. He listens very well to all other commands. He has very good manners, he will sit to have his leash put on, sit until I am out the door first. Then he will sit again once outside. But as soon as I start walking he is off like a shot. I have even tried heading back into the house everytime he pulls. I trained Ginger using treats and stopping every time she pulled and she is wonderful on a leash now.

 

Does anybody else have a dog like this? Any advice will be appreciated. Thanks!

[Lucy Goosey]

My older bitch was tough to teach loose leash walking to. Being a tree and changing directions didn't work for her either. As soon as there was any slack on the leash, she would move forward and pull into it to make it taut again. What has really helped with her is using clicker training and "penalty yards". For the clicker training part, I first worked just in our driveway or in the street in front of our house, starting with a basic box step and increasing difficulty from there. Part of loose leash walking is paying attention to me, so I integrated eye contact as well.

 

The box step basically goes like this: Dog is on my left, leash in my right hand with clicker, left hand free to deliver treats. I take one step forward, clicking and treating, bringing my left hand down next to my left leg to deliver the treat. That gets the dog's head next to my left leg. After the first step, I make a quarter turn to the right, and repeat. Repeat until you've made a box. When the one step box is easy for the dog, increase to two steps between turns, then three, then four, then five. When I hit five, I generally start inserting random numbers of steps, from one to ten, and make my clicking and treating random as well. When the dog is having no trouble with this, I integrate it into walking. I also like to be able to get her eye contact when I say her name. To do this, I simply say her name, and when she looks at me, she gets a C/T. Over time the C/T is faded and I just use praise.

 

It's important to use food that your dog can't resist. Store bought treats are often not good enough; I've found that making my own is usually a much better option. I might buy a pork chop and bake it with some garlic powder, then dice it into tiny cubes, or some chicken liver or even cocktail shrimp (doesn't need to be cooked, but is messy).

 

"Penalty yards" is another tactic I use when she starts to forge ahead on a walk. Instead of just stopping or changing direction, I take steps backward until she circles around and is beside me. When she is in the correct walking position, I praise her and we proceed forward. I say "penalty yards!" as soon as there is tension on the leash. This way, she can connect the sensation of pressure on the collar and the consequence of going backward instead of forward. Since she wants to move forward, she is motivated to be in the correct walking position.

[RedDawnZoe]

Based from my own personal experience with ?pullers? I would highly recommend the Halti. I?ve had two different dogs who were strong pullers at every opportunity with flat collars. They also would try to evade the choke collar pressure as well. They also all received plenty of exercise - they have full access to several acres of fields. Changing directions and standing still did not work with them either.

 

Although it took a long period of adjustment, both of my dogs accepted the Halti?s. Both pawed at their faces and heads during the adjustment process. After teaching them (with treats in one case, without in another) positive work comes with the Halti, both dogs manners on the leash improved dramatically.

 

One of my dogs was an especially strong puller - so after adjusting to the Halti, I begun to use the Halti in combination with the flat collar. When she pulled with the flat collar, I would apply pressure to the flat collar - stopping - than follow up with pressure on the Halti. If that does not work, try combining a Halti and choke or pinch collar.

 

Good Luck!

 

Elizabeth

[Lunar]

I have had a very good experience with a prong collar. Granted he's a different breed so I don't know if the same would be appropriate, but I do know that Zeeke is a very headstrong, and hard-headed, dog. He does what is needed and not an inch more. For him, too, the choke chain was next to useless, and being a tree just didn't seem to register on him at all. He spits out treats if he's interested in something else at the time. Once I got the prong collar it was another story - the prong got his attention (whoa, end of leash!), and I'd stop and wait until he paid attention to me, and then move on. He still has horrific manners around people, still barks like crazy, still has dominance issues - but he walks like a true gentleman on-leash. I think the prong just made him aware that there was a limit to the leash, and once he made that connection, it was gold. We probably could use a flat collar now.

 

Just an example of how well it worked - the other day I was bike-riding with him around the neighborhood, and we don't have a bike attachment yet, so the leash was just wrapped around the handlebars and then held in my hand. A squirrel darted across the road right in front of us. His ears went up, his tail went up, he went into full alert-mode. I just said, "Uh-uh." He didn't even touch the end of the leash.

[Caroline]

I really think riding a bike with a dog on a prong collar is wrong. There is no way you can predict a reaction and at a bike speed, what kind of correction will he get in case of an accident.

Caroline

[Lunar]

True, but I don't think I'd attempt it without one. I am open to suggestions, however.

[Lucy Goosey]

I probably wouldn't cycle with a Shepherd. I'd be concerned about wear and tear on the joints as well as the ligaments that hold the stomach in place. I think, far better, would be running on softer surfaces such as grass and dirt, and swimming. I do cycle with Lucy, but her physique is less conducive to the types of injuries that I would be very concerned about incurring in a GSD or other large, deep chested breed known for susceptibility to joint problems.

[Lunar]

Yes, I agree with that too. Unfortunately we have very limited options for exercise right now and this is one of them. He goes absolutely bananas without it (and drives me bananas right with him!). It's a long story.

[Lucy Goosey]

I would imagine he needs a lot of exercise, as well as mental stimulation. Shepherds are generally pretty intelligent, and like BCs, need brain work as much as they do physical exercise. Have you considered doing any tracking with him?

[Lunar]

Actually that's not one we've really thought about. We had talked about Agility, but we really need to get some more obedience practice in before that, and also agility might be risky considering his breed (I'd definitely get his hips checked before doing anything). I haven't heard anything about tracking in this area. That might be interesting to consider. Do you know where I can get more information?

 

And yes, he needs a lot of stimulation - unfortunately he has no off switch.

[Lucy Goosey]

Well, you could check into Schutzhund groups in your area. SchH has three activities that the dogs compete in; obedience, tracking, and protection (bite work). Not all dogs are of suitable temperament for protection work, and not all people really want to do protection work, so if that's not something that sounds appealing or if he's not suitable, you could check into AKC or CKC kennel clubs in your area that may be holding tracking classes. Tracking classes generally occur in Fall and Spring, so right now would be a good time to start checking into Fall tracking classes.

 

Also, many SchH groups require a certain commitment of time and resources, since the training is intense and costs money for the group. They're generally clubs that you have to be accepted to. ACK or CKC tracking classes might be a better place to start if you want low commitment and just to get your feet wet. Being a Shepherd, I would think he would excel at tracking.

 

In addition, there are people who do herding with Shepherds. You might be able to find a group within a reasonable driving distance; or maybe not.

 

Some other things you can do with him, if you're not already, are scent games that you play in the house. One of my dogs' faves is to hide a favorite toy in an easy place, teach him to "find it", and over time, make the hiding places harder and harder. Start hiding it in drawers and cabinets, in laundry hampers and on high shelves where he can't reach it on his own. You can teach him an "alert" behavior to let you know when he has found it, and to show you where it is, then you can retrieve it for him and play with him. Try to find hiding places where he will have to search for ten minutes or longer.

[border_collie_crazy]

I also reccomend a halti. your dog sounds like Misty, I tried every other methode but nothing worked, she could not have cared less. she could be so tired she could barley stand but she still managed to pull. I got fed up and got her a halti wors wonders, she does still pull a little but not enugh to cause a problem, she used to pull my arms outa the sockets she pulled so hard. it is so much nicer to walk her now, and I am weaning her off of it now. she is doing well too a short time agao she walked the whole way home with the leash on her flat collar and only a few times of pulling and that was not as bad as it used to be.

[Lunar]

Sorry for taking the thread off-topic - Lucy, I'll PM you.

[Doug Boyder]

The Halti is similar to the halter of a horse. It prevents lunging by transferring the forward motion into a sideways head turn. A Halti prevents a dog from pulling because it brings the dog's head around towards you, making it impossible for him to guide you anywhere...

[Lucy Goosey]

As head collars go, I think the Gentle Leader is of a better design. You might check both of them to see what your preference is before buying one or the other.

[MrSnappy]

Re: head halters. I have never found them to be successful and have actually found that some dogs resent them so much that they inhibit learning.

 

Like Lunar, I prefer a prong, though I will try a martingale first.

 

Unlike Lunar, I would NEVER bicycle with a dog on a prong collar. This is a truly dangerous idea. To successfully bicycle with one's dog, one needs simply to tie the leash around the seat post. The dog cannot upset your center of gravity this way, and it is virtually impossible for them to pull you over if the leash is tied to the seat post.

 

RDM

[M.L.]

Thanks for the suggestions everyone. I also agree that using anything other than a regular flat collar or harness for bicycling could be very dangerous. Bailey wears his sport harness for biking. But luckily for me, he doesn't pull while jogging alongside the bike, even at a very slow pace. I hear that the "Springer" is great. It attaches to your bike and prevents the dog from being able to pull you over.

[MrSnappy]

Originally posted by Lunar:

RDM, what do you use for biking? Zeeke in a harness would pull me flat over, and his regular collar can and does pop right over his head.

Again, tie the leash to the seat post of your bike, and it is really difficult for the dog to pull you over. And if I am running a dog with my bike I put a martingale on them; loose enough to not choke, tight enough to stay on their necks.

 

If the dog is lagging far enough behind that his collar is slipping off over his head, you are going too fast for the dog!

 

RDM

[Lunar]

Originally posted by MrSnappy:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lunar:

RDM, what do you use for biking? Zeeke in a harness would pull me flat over, and his regular collar can and does pop right over his head.

Again, tie the leash to the seat post of your bike, and it is really difficult for the dog to pull you over. And if I am running a dog with my bike I put a martingale on them; loose enough to not choke, tight enough to stay on their necks.

 

If the dog is lagging far enough behind that his collar is slipping off over his head, you are going too fast for the dog!

 

RDM

Sorry just deleted the post as I didn't want to get this thread off-topic yet again.

 

I think a martingale would work, I'll pick one of those up. And yes, I stay along with his speed, but I don't want to take the risk of him suddenly stopping and popping off the collar. I actually go really slow with him, sometimes he prefers to just walk.

 

And thanks for the tip about tying it to the seat post - for some reason I never thought about that. (And wouldn't try it with the prong anyways.)