Puppy crate size

[HangingTree]

Hi!

 

So I'm picking up my first border collie tomorrow (he'll be almost 8 weeks old), and I have a large crate for him that will (hopefully) fit him when he's fully grown. However, I have a divider so that I can make the crate smaller, so I'm wondering how small I should make the crate so that it will fit an 8 week old puppy?

 

I know that they're supposed to be able to stand, sit, lie down and turn around inside the crate, but I'm still a bit worried I'll get it wrong, hehe :-) Maybe I'm over thinking it, and that it'll be quite obvious when we've tested a bit, I guess I'm just anxious to get everything ready before he gets here..

[Sue R]

Welcome! This is a good place for information about all aspects of Border Collies.

 

I've had 36" crates for the two pups that I raised with crating, and I never used the divider or found a need to use it. Of course, every pup is different. If the pup is going to have some toys or chew items in his crate, you would want enough room for those as well as room for him to sleep. How large is your crate?

 

Another question is how long will he be crated? Just a couple of hours (or less) at a time? Overnight (he'll likely need a potty trip during the night, at least for some weeks or even a couple of months)? During your work day or half-day?

 

For my last pup, who came here at eight weeks of age, I had this set-up (crate within x-pen that was supported by the crate and surrounding furniture and hearth for stability, and with a heavy-duty tarp below, plus a black plastic contractor pan filled with shredded newspaper for a litter pan, that he never used) since I was working (I took one week off after he came so he was just nine weeks old when I went back to work) and he would be confined from 7 am until 2:30 pm when the neighbor boy got off the bus and pottied and played with him.

 

 

While this was a pup that never made a mess in his pen, he still took until six months to be dependable when loose in the house. When he hit that level of "awareness", he became extremely clean in the house. He still keeps me guessing about some things!

[HangingTree]

Thank you so much! I've been lurking around on this forum for a while now, and I'm happy to have found a forum with so much information about border collies :-)

 

My crate is only 30" big, so I guess I might have to get him a new one eventually. Luckily this cage is one that we used for our previous dogs, so it isn't new!

 

And yes, he will only be crated for a couple of hours at the time, but in the beginning I plan to take him outside every hour. During the night I'm planning to get up every 3 hours to take him outside, at least in the beginning. I have the crate in an x-pen along with some toys, a toilet (litter pan with grass) and his water and food bowls. So he'll be crated during the night, and I'm planning to let him use mostly his x-pen during the day when I can't watch him. When I'm away or working, I plan to let him use his x-pen and then come home to spend time with him during my lunch breaks. I might be able to bring him with me to work a couple of times a week as well.

 

I have easter holiday now, so I can spend a lot of time with him during the next week and a half. And after that there will be a couple of people who'll come in to check that he's doing alright and take him outside while I'm away, but that's about it.

 

I've tried to make up my mind about whether or not to have blankets inside the crate.. People seem to have different opinions about it, so for now I just thought I would try with blankets, and then remove it if he soils them. Does this sound okay, or what do you think?

[Sue R]

A 30" crate can be plenty big enough for many Border Collies. My Dan would certainly not fit in one as an adult but I've had a couple (Megan and Bute) that each would fit in a 30". I just keep the 36" because they work for all my dogs just fine (in an airline crate, I have to go one size larger than that for Dan because he is so tall and long), and they are smaller inside for the same outside measurement than a wire crate).

 

Since my dogs spend my work day in their crates, I'd rather err on the side of a crate that's a big bigger than smaller.

 

As for the x-pen, it does not provide the same level of security that a good crate does. My arrangement would not have worked when we were gone to work except that I attached both ends of the x-pen to the crate (which is a heavy one) and had the hearth and furniture to lend support along the length of it. And because it worked for Dan and I found that out the first week I had him and was able to monitor him. Many pups can be climbers, diggers, or otherwise unsuited to be left in an x-pen versus a more secure crate.

 

Rather than following a potty schedule that goes by the clock, I found that I was most successful in following these guidelines - potty right after feeding, drinking, playing, waking, brief training sessions. And, while active, about every hour (as you say), depending on the pup (some pups just need to go more often, especially when younger). At night, I never set a clock but let the pup wake me. I found that with Celt and Bute, once during the middle of the night was generally just right. Dan, except for just one night, never woke me up to go potty at night, which was wonderful!

 

That sounds great that you have helpers, and it's a good way to socialize him, too. I've thought about another pup but don't have the support to have one now while I have my job. Retirement looms, though!

[HangingTree]

Thank you so much for sharing your experiences with me! I really appreciate it! I guess I will just have to see how big he gets, and maybe the crate we have now is enough. But I was considering getting an airline crate eventually anyway, so I guess I'll just have to wait and see.

 

It's great to know about the x-pen! Then I may have to consider using the crate more than I intended, but I guess I have to see what he's like during the first week and adjust things a bit (or a lot!), I'm sure there'll be quite a lot of surprises waiting for me. I'll just have to watch him like a hawk, learn his habits and I'll try to take him out after feeding, drinking, waking, playing and training, like you said! I'm sure I have some tiring months ahead!

 

Since I can be a heavy sleeper, I've been a bit worried that I won't hear his whining/crying when he has to go, but maybe it's a lot louder than I thought. I guess I could try not setting an alarm, and if he soils the bed, I know I'll need to. I'm so worried I'll do something wrong, but I suppose that is normal..

[Sue R]

If you are not going to wake up to his whining/crying, then by all means, set an alarm. You may find that, like any new "parent" might, your sound-sleeping days may be over or at least that you will be attuned to hearing your pup when he gets fussy at night. You'll find that out soon enough.

 

I like a wire crate for the house although, unlike an airline crate, it will not keep any digestive accidents your pup experiences from possibly getting out and onto your floor. We did not have A/C when we first got crates and wanted the wire crates for good air circulation. Airline type crates do keep most messes confined and do provide a more "den-like" feel that many dogs appreciate. My dogs are just as content in their wire crates as they are what the dogs are accustomed to.

 

Airline crates do tend to be safer in vehicles, providing more protection many feel so if you are going to have a travel and an at-home crate, one of each may suit you very well.

 

If you have an x-pen, give it a try (when you can supervise). I've never had a problem with using an x-pen for a pup or adult dog but other have had, and a lot of that is the individual animal and perhaps also how you use it.

 

I'm hoping others will give you better advice than I can. Best wishes!

[HangingTree]

I'll definitely keep an alarm then.. I honestly don't know if I will wake up, so I think it's best if I do! If I experience being woken up by the puppy, then I could start taking it a bit easier on the alarm. I'm going to try to enjoy my last night of sleep as much as I can..

 

I was a bit worried that the wired crate might not provide enough den-feeling, could it be an idea to put a blanket over it? And I might have to travel a bit in the future, so I think it's a good idea to get an airline crate eventually. It will definitely feel more secure to have an airline crate in the car than a wired one.

 

I'll see how he does with his x-pen, and then make the decision about where to keep him when I'm away. I do like the idea that he gets to make some decisions on his own, but it won't be worth it if he'll be endangering himself or his surroundings..

 

Thank you for all of your advice! They've definitely been appreciated!

[Sue R]

You can hang a blanket over a wire crate but, particularly with a pup, you run a strong risk of having the pup work to pull the blanket into the crate and to chew on it or shred it, or maybe swallow some bits and pieces. Initially, you might want to avoid anything soft, padded, fibrous, fluffy, etc., when you are not supervising. I had one youngster that loved his stuffed toys and was actually not very hard on them. However, over time and swallowing a bit of material here and there, he had a large wad build up in his stomach of fibers, bits of plastic, pieces of string from tug ropes, etc. The morning he hacked this up, the size of a thick knockwurst, I learned the reason for his occasional bouts of dry heaves in the mornings. And that was the same morning that I put up all such toys to avoid that problem with him again. Disclaimer - I never had this issue with any other of our pups but Celt was a swallower of small bits and the others were spitters-out of small bits.

 

Perhaps just putting the crate in a corner and maybe something solid on top will help give the pup the privacy factor without giving him anything he can pull into the crate and damage.

[Tommy Coyote]

My puppy did just fine in a good sized wire crate - 2X4, I think. He never messed in his crate and he never chewed anything up.

 

But I had to move Tommy out of the wire crate when she was little because she kept wrapping her teeth around the wire and I was afraid she would get her teeth stuck on it. She got the airline crate which is a number 4.

 

Zeke and Tommy both prefer the airline crate. They can lay way back in the back of it and I think they feel safer that way.

[Alchemist]

I used a large (Aussie-sized, 36") wire crate with both my pups, with an X-pen attached. I'd say definitely no blankets in or on the crate until you can be sure they won't be chewed and pieces swallowed. That's not the sort of "fiber" a vet would recommend in their diet.

 

I did use the divider in the wire crate for several weeks. IIRC, I set it so that at first the pup only had access to about a third of the area of the crate. I think this is why my pups never messed in their crates. When I drove several hours to pick up one pup ~ 5 years ago, I brought both the Aussie-sized crate and the cat's crate with me. It turned out the cat's crate fit an 8-week-old pup better, and that's what we used for a week or two (while transporting him) until he outgrew it. We also used it as a nighttime crate (the wire crate being too unwieldy to haul up into our bedroom every night). As the pups grew, we moved the divider, and transitioned them to a somewhat larger Vari-kennel type crate at night (and for ease of transport to the vet's and such). With the second pup, I borrowed a soft-sided crate to transport him in the cockpit of an airplane. He was much happier riding in that in the car than in a larger wire crate in my car - I think he felt more exposed in the wire crate, and therefore more insecure. So I used the soft-sided crate while transporting him in the car for a couple of weeks before transitioning to the larger wire crate in the car.

 

I will add I've got reservations about wire crates. Duncan got his incisors caught on the bars of one when I wasn't home, and exhausted himself trying to free himself. Very traumatic for both of us. And I accidentally caught Ross's collar in the door of one in my car, with the result that he was starting to strangle before I noticed what was going on. EXTREMELY traumatic for both of us.

 

And never leave them in the X-pen unsupervised. You never know when an escape artist is going to try to scale it. Ross learned to climb it at an early age; fortunately I was within reach and could catch him before he caught a leg in it and found himself dangling. He has proven himself capable of escaping kennel runs that are only 4' high when I sent him for training.

[HangingTree]

Thank you so much guys! This is really helpful He did play quite a bit with a blanket we had in the car, so I'm definitely not using a blanket in there. At least not in the beginning..

 

He's very happy and energetic (not surprising I suppose!) but he doesn't seem to be very food motivated at all.. He wouldn't take any food or treats on our way home (four hours), but he has started to eat a bit now after we've come home. I tried stuffing a kong with treats, kibble and a liver stew-thing that is popular to use in my country (dogs and cats love it), and though he'll chew a bit on it, he gets tired of it very quickly, and it certainly isn't motivating enough for him to stay in the crate.. I'm worried about closing the door, as I don't want him to have bad experiences with the crate, yet I'm not sure how to make him like the crate without the kong... Maybe he'll be more motivated tomorrow (I'm sure he's very confused right now) and currently he's sleeping in the corner opposite the crate inside his exercise pen. Have any of you any suggestions about how to make him like the crate without using food?

 

I had to remove the toilet with grass, as he started using that as a bed, and otherwise chewed on the grass.. Any ideas on how I can make him think of the crate as bed, and the grass as toilet, or should I just try to place something else in the litter pan maybe?

 

I'm sorry for all the questions, but I'm very worried I'll do something wrong, which I'm sure I will, but I hope to make as few as possible..

[GentleLake]

Even without being food motivated (and that may just be excitement from all the changes), you could feed him all his meals in the crate. That should create a positive association.

 

As for the toilet area, dogs are often motivated by smell to choose a place to eliminate. So you might try leaving one of his stools on the grass and adding some of his urine, even if it's on a paper towel.

 

The first few months can be as frustrating as they are fun. Enjoy the fun parts and remember that he'll soon grow out of the frustrating parts.

[HangingTree]

Thank you! Those are very helpful tips! :-)

 

He does seem more content with the crate now, and will take treats now (phew!), but the kong is still not too interesting yet. He slept in the crate, but woke me up 3 times to go out to pee. I don't think I'll be needing those alarms, I barely managed to get any sleep at all, and woke up at any sound he made. Today he has actually lied down into the crate to chew his toys.. :-)

 

I'm going to start only feeding him in his crate, but moving a stool to the grass toilet didn't do any good at all.. He walked all over it and it got really messy, yuck..

[GentleLake]

What are you putting in the kong? There are lots of yummy things you can put in -- peanut butter, canned food, yogurt, cottage cheese, leftover veggies, etc., etc., etc. You can layer things and add kibble into it, and you can freeze it to make it last longer. The possibilities are almost endless.

[HangingTree]

So far I've tried turkey and liver treats, liver pate and I've tried giving him peanut butter, be he doesn't seem to like it (not that he wanted to taste it in the first place). I did give him a slice of cheese, which he ate, but didn't seem too excited. I'll keep trying different things, and hopefully he'll be a bit more food motivated when he's settled down here a bit

 

For now it doesn't seem like freezing it is a good idea, as he'll only bother with the kong for about 20 seconds as it is, hehe. But I'll try freezing if I should run into the problem of him finishing it too fast! Thank you!