A friend for Marley Girl

[Marley Girl]

"Okay, before I mess things up, does anyone have any advice, criticism, etc.?"

 

Just curious, if your mind is made up, why even ask for opinions/advice?

I didn't ask if I SHOULD get a pup or return the pup. I was asking advice on what to watch for etc. considering Marley's tendency to bark at people on leash. The only actual advice I got on my inquiry was don't walk the pup when I walk Marley, which I already have not been doing and had no plans on doing. Marley gets walked with the well-behaved Aussie or by herself.

 

Way too often, we see people asking but not really wanting to hear anything but support for or agreement with what they want to do. Once again...

Hogwash. I don't need or want support or agreement. I already have the puppy. Just asking for useful and practical advice after the fact of having the puppy. I've heard, "return the puppy." I didn't ask if I should return the puppy.

[GentleLake]

Just asking for useful and practical advice after the fact of having the puppy.

 

Actually, you asked for "any advice, criticism, etc.?"

 

And that's what you got. I wouldn't say there was any real criticism; there was some advice, but mostly "etc.", I'd say. And it's not what you wanted to hear.

[Marley Girl]

 

Actually, you asked for "any advice, criticism, etc.?"

 

And that's what you got. I wouldn't say there was any real criticism; there was some advice, but mostly "etc.", I'd say. And it's not what you wanted to hear.

It has nothing to do with "what I wanted to hear," so I don't know where that's coming from. I asked for practical advice, not to be bashed over the head as that accomplishes nothing.

[d112358]

The practical advice is that raising two puppies at the same time is very difficult to do successfully. You need to make sure that they spend more one-on-one time with you than they do with each other. This goes against your stated purpose in getting another puppy. Most people don't have the time and patience to do this successfully, and when one pup hasn't been integrated in the house for very long an easier option is rehoming him or returning to the breeder.

 

I've seen a pair of dogs with littermate syndrome who were surrendered to the shelter, and it's heartbreaking. Neither one functioned like a normal confident dog without the other, and they showed extreme separation anxiety from one another. On the other hand, I know one household that kept a pair of BC puppies from the same litter - one housemate with each puppy. They clearly did a lot of separation and one-on-one training; both dogs took separate classes, had separate people to bond to and they're both healthy adults now.

[Sue R]

"Okay, before I mess things up, does anyone have any advice, criticism, etc.?"

When you ask for "advice, criticism, etc." expect to get it.

 

And it's not just about you, it's also about anyone else who might be reading and learning from this topic (or any other topic). If people don't give their honest, experienced advice, they might just be misleading someone else who is considering getting another youngster for company for their current, adolescent youngster.

 

So, look at it this way, that replies here may not be what *you* wanted, but they might be what someone else needs to hear.

[mum24dog]

I have to agree with all the replies here.

 

Marley Girl's family now have 3 dogs and as I read it the new pup has been bought just to plug the gaps when the Aussie isn't around and Marley might be lonely.

 

That's not a good enough reason in my book. It wouldn't surprise me if some of those replying here do so because they have learned from making the same mistake in the past, whether by getting dogs too close in age or by not dealing adequately with the issues of one dog before getting another.

 

I have had dogs too close in age and both dogs and I missed out on the pleasure of building a bond on a one to one basis.

 

I need another dog now but I'm waiting until I can give it the attention I want without spreading myself too thinly.

[GentleLake]

It has nothing to do with "what I wanted to hear," so I don't know where that's coming from. I asked for practical advice, not to be bashed over the head as that accomplishes nothing.

 

 

The thing is, no one bashed you over the head or anything similar. You're overreacting, Marley's Girl, apparently taking out your frustration on the people you asked advice from, and who gave it (and there was more than just not walking them on leash together, or returning the puppy), honestly and with the best interest of your dogs at heart.

 

The fact that all the replies you got are small variations on the same theme should be telling you something, but sadly that seems not to be the case.

 

Once again, best wishes with your pups.

[Liz P]

I didn't give you a great deal of other advice because there is nothing you can do to fully prevent "littermate syndrome." Yes, you can walk them separately and give each one on one time, but it's not enough. The guide dog schools have studied this because they are short on puppy raiser homes. They tried to double up on pups in homes with two adults. What they found was that one pup always had stunted development and failed out of guide dog training.

[Tommy Coyote]

OK. So I'm going to disagree. I think it depends on the puppy. And the personalities of the other dogs. And how much time you are willing to put into this. My puppy was wonderful for my older dogs although it took a little while for him to win them over. And he is just as sweet as he can be and has been ever since I got him. He got the other dogs moving. Now they all run all over the backyard chasing each other. They are in much better shape than they were.

 

I just don't think it's that big a deal (I mean it's not a deal breaker) as long as you take the time to work with everyone individually and together.

 

And I just haven't seen my dogs taking on the other dog's behaviors. Zeke tends to bark a lot. Tommy doesn't. Tommy barks at the stuff going on outside the window. Zeke and Joey don't. They all love to run the fence when the neighbor's dogs are out. We are working on that. The two older dogs are doing good about coming in when I call if they are making too much noise. The puppy not so much but we work on it every day.

 

I have had a couple of really problem rescues but my other dogs didn't take on that behavior at all. But I'm right there with them and I correct them gently all the time.

 

Now one thing. I haven't ever had puppies that were quite that close. The closest I've had were a puppy with a 12 month old. They were close friends but they were both very bonded to me.

[GentleLake]

Now one thing. I haven't ever had puppies that were quite that close. The closest I've had were a puppy with a 12 month old.

 

That's a much more significant age difference than between Marley's Girl's pups, and that's the crux of the issue.

[d112358]

OK. So I'm going to disagree.

 

Now one thing. I haven't ever had puppies that were quite that close. The closest I've had were a puppy with a 12 month old. They were close friends but they were both very bonded to me.

I don't think you can compare situations in this case. The rule of thumb I've heard is absolutely not to get pups less than six months apart, and ideally space them out by a year or more. If Marley Girl were 12 months old there'd be a lot less naysaying.

[Beach BCs]

I raised two with barely a year between them. The older one regressed and I suddenly had two puppies. I thought it was sweet the way they would play and pal around everywhere. One day I asked the pup to do something when he was playing with the older one and I could almost see the shared brain working and dismissing me. Everything shifted that day. Separate play, training, hanging out with just me and just my husband for each dog. They still had some play time together, nothing like it was in the beginning.

 

It was alot of work, more than I was prepared for. Twice the time for everything. Today they are both happy well adjusted dogs. But sometimes I can still see that shared brain at work. And it's something I don't know that I would do again.

 

Edited to add: I had never owned more than one dog before this.

[Mom of Mya]

Evidently you are a very strong person and can handle a lot of stress and I commend you on this. Maybe we should look at this from another point leaving the pup entirely out of it for now. I feel (and this is just my opinion) that our dogs tend to feel what we are feeling and react to it.

 

Could it be that you are feeling stress when walking Marley Girl and therefore she is reacting to your stress about it? You may have a higher stress level than you even realize especially with two dogs and a child to deal with. I don't know anything about your life, maybe your jobs are easy and your child is wonderful and doing this seems so easy for you but I am thinking that there must be some level of stress there for her to be reacting too. Has your specialist you hired indicated anything to this yet? If we get frustrated or stressed then I think they also do the same.

 

Now for the pup I have to agree with the above, I think that the stress and Marley's problems should be worked out first and then another pup could be brought into it.

 

Mya is 6 months old now and I cannot imagine dealing with another pup right now. She has been wonderful and easy to train thus far but overnight she seems to have become a holy terror (think we are hitting the terrible twos YIKES)... She is into everything, biting our feet and running, pulling at socks, pants and running again, etc. shredding papers, books, and mail if it falls on the ground and she gets it first. Seems like everything naughty she can do she is trying and I am sure it is just testing us like every kid does. We also contemplated getting both she and her sister at the same time. We did a lot of soul searching and finally decided for all involved it would just be best to work with one pup first so we could give her our full attention.

 

Since you have both dogs and are determined to deal with both, I give you my wholehearted best wishes for dealing with all the stress you are headed for and that it all turns out for the best for all involved. Good luck to you all.

[gcv-border]

When I got my pup (6 years ago) from the breeder, I asked about how much the pup should play with my resident dog. The breeder's opinion was that, in order for the pup to really bond to you, you should limit the pup's play with another dog to 10% or less, timewise, until the pup was 7-8 months old. During those first months, keep one or the other in a crate or separated in another room, and definitely train each one separately.

 

I would think that this same strategy could be applied to 2 pups.

[G. Festerling]

I just am in the middle of raising two. Three months apart. It is hard. Fun but hard. It can be done. But I find mine certainly tangle over rank. They are good with each other but don't love each other. I will not do that again. And as I am writing this they are 19 and 17 months old. A good dog does not need nor want another. Can a dog find comfort in another yes! And I have had to admit to a friend of mine a while back that her idea of getting another lab to keep the first goofy nutso one company....actually worked out phenomenal.

 

Besides, although I love both pups, I live very close with mine and that presents a problem. I find my loyalties shifting from one to the other....often 10 times a day. And although it is meant as a bit of a joke, I do find myself off and on paying more and different attention to each. And since I believe that they should be part of my family and not just an accessory, if often find it hard to be fair to both. Of course that is my mindset.

[Smalahundur]

-Something went wrong with the quote, deleted, and tried again-

[Smalahundur]

It seems like a lot of responses are coming from a place of treating Marley like a "special needs" dog because of certain behavior she exhibits outdoors on a leash. And I come from the camp where the more you treat something like it's special needs, the more it believes it is special needs and the more special needs it becomes.

You were the one bringing up those so called "special needs". Believe me, without having mentioned them you would have gotten the same sort of responses (you are not he first one who has gotten him/herself in this situation).

[Smalahundur]

It seems like a lot of responses are coming from a place of treating Marley like a "special needs" dog because of certain behavior she exhibits outdoors on a leash. And I come from the camp where the more you treat something like it's special needs, the more it believes it is special needs and the more special needs it becomes.

You were the one bringing up those so called "special needs". Believe me, without having mentioned them you would have gotten the same sort of responses (you are not he first one who has gotten him/herself in this situation).

[Marley Girl]

The Aussie and Marley are 6 months apart in age. They are polar opposites in personality and were since day one. The Aussie is playful like a child whereas Marley has always been far more serious. The new pup (Jet) and Marley are 4 1/2 months apart in age. I am as close and bonded with Marley as I am to the Aussie, maybe even more so. Jet is more like the Aussie in personality (they're both male), very out-going and social, and has so far been a great addition to our family. Marley and the Aussie, Huck, do not have this littermate syndrome thing people have been talking about. In fact, the behaviorist was impressed with the relationship between the two and how we handled both dogs in their relations with each other and did not step in when the two were playing rough but instead allowed them to work it out.

 

We have a family raising these pups and bonding with them and looking out for them.

[Tommy Coyote]

Oh, for heavens sake. Sounds like you are doing fine. You've already got em so just go for it. Have fun with them. Just work with them separately as much as you can. And love them all.

 

It really depends a whole lot on you and the personalities of you dogs. You can make it work. Just ask for help when you need it.

 

Sometimes it is better to listen with your heart. Especially when you are working with dogs.

[Marley Girl]

Thank you, Tommy.

 

Mya's Mom... My boyfriend initially thought the same thing, that Marley was reacting to me and my stress level. He was a police dog handler for years and that was his opinion. I'm not a stressed out kind of person, so I told him to take Marley with him daily for a few days when I was not around to socialize her and have some solid one-on-one time with her. It broke his heart when she peed on his lap during an episode of fear at a warehouse. Three days later he was paying for Marley to go to doggie day camp and now a behaviorist.

 

I think the real issue with Marley is she was not properly socialized between 8 weeks and 16 weeks of age because I had gotten some scary parvo stories from people. I've been taking Jet out to the high school next door to mingle with the people on the bleachers watching baseball. He loves meeting the people and jumping around and they all want to pet him. So I will not make the same mistake I did with the middle child.

[Mom of Mya]

Thank you, Tommy.

 

Mya's Mom... My boyfriend initially thought the same thing, that Marley was reacting to me and my stress level. He was a police dog handler for years and that was his opinion. I'm not a stressed out kind of person, so I told him to take Marley with him daily for a few days when I was not around to socialize her and have some solid one-on-one time with her. It broke his heart when she peed on his lap during an episode of fear at a warehouse. Three days later he was paying for Marley to go to doggie day camp and now a behaviorist.

 

I think the real issue with Marley is she was not properly socialized between 8 weeks and 16 weeks of age because I had gotten some scary parvo stories from people. I've been taking Jet out to the high school next door to mingle with the people on the bleachers watching baseball. He loves meeting the people and jumping around and they all want to pet him. So I will not make the same mistake I did with the middle child.

 

Well I just wondered because I am not normally stressed around dogs either but my husband can walk Mya out even without a leash and she does fine but with me she is different so he watched one day and he told me I did look uncomfortable. I guess I do worry about her running off and getting hurt (more like a mom I guess than a dad).. So now he is walking with me in the evening together so I am more relaxed in doing that with her and it has helped.

 

Maybe it is just like people, some are more serious than others, so dogs could be like that too. we got my daughter another Yorkie when her 15 year old one passed and he is completely different than our first dog. We attributed it to the first being female and the second male but maybe that was not it at all. The second one was around 4 other yorkies in the puppy phase and the first only around 1 but the first female was outgoing friendly and loving. This little male has always been so serious and fearful. We have taken him to parks, etc. He just will not socialize with other dogs. My daughter even got a new female puppy (half german shepherd and husky) now that she has her own house and he will not play with her but if another person or dog is threatening to her he thinks he will go up and protect her (totally funny watching a 10 pound dog protecting a 40 pound one LOL). so maybe your marley girl is just the serious one of the family. Good luck with all of them.