B Point Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 So my little boy Border is 9 months old and my wife and daughter have been harping at me to get another BC pup.....as if I don't have my hands full as it is. The thing is they don't want just any other pup. They want the offspring of our current boy. So, that means we'd have to find a willing breeder to indulge this silliness. My wife says...."they do it with horses so why not dogs".....she had just finished watching the movie "Secretariat". I'm thinking FUBAR but I told my wife I'd at least inquire about it. What do you good folks in the know think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brady's mom Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 I think most everyone here will say that breeding is a bad decision. You should only breed if your dog actually, truly, contributes to the border collie breed as a whole. Which means breeding for keeping the magnificent working ability of the breed. I would say put your foot down. If you believe it's a bad choice, don't do it. And try to explain to them that by not breeding him, you're preserving the quality of this wonderful breed we all love so much. I love my own collie, but I would never ever think about breeding him. He doesn't contribute to the collie breed at all--he doesn't work livestock like his ancestors. He chases tennis balls and frisbees and lives a good life being my eternal hiking, snuggling, and tv watching buddy. I think we all fall into that feeling where we love our dogs so much we think breeding them might make them...last, somehow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B Point Posted March 3, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 Yes...I expect most here to say it's not cool and I can relate somewhat. But, of all the Borders in Japan and there are many... I doubt any of them are from working stock. Working...? I still can't find a link to anyone doing it here. My wife on the other hand as well as most people don't really care about any of that. I mean hell...she was thinking of crossing him with a poodle..... haha. My boy came from a farm but that's about as close to working as I'm going to get so I assume we are very far removed from any working trait. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloria Atwater Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 So my little boy Border is 9 months old and my wife and daughter have been harping at me to get another BC pup.....as if I don't have my hands full as it is. The thing is they don't want just any other pup. They want the offspring of our current boy. So, that means we'd have to find a willing breeder to indulge this silliness. My wife says...."they do it with horses so why not dogs".....she had just finished watching the movie "Secretariat". I'm thinking FUBAR but I told my wife I'd at least inquire about it. What do you good folks in the know think? Here's a point to remember: as much as they bred Secretariat, he never produced another horse remotely like himself. He was NOT a winner-producing stallion. In other words, he was one of a kind. Just like your pup. There is no reason on this earth to create more puppies simply because a family member wants another pup. That's not a reason to breed. And providing you find someone with a bitch who is willing to accommodate your pup as a stud, has your wife thought of the enormous responsibility and considerable expense that person will have to go to? Whoever owns the bitch will have to have to nurse her through her pregnancy, get ultrasounds to make sure the pregnancy is going well, build or create a facility for the bitch to safely and privately have her puppies, and oversee the birth itself. Will this person have the skill to know how to whelp a litter of pups, or deal with birthing problems should they arise? Once the pups are born, then the bitch's owner has to clean up after those puppies every single day, feed them every day, oversee the mother's nutrition every day, get the pups health checked, first vaccinations - and that's if the birth goes well. If the bitch should need a cesarean, there's another big vet bill and the further worry of the mother being able to successfully nurse the pups while recovering from surgery. If not, somebody will be hand-feeding those puppies umpteen times a day. Having a litter of pups is a LOT of work. It's a lot of worry. And it's not cheap. So looking for a puppy that's sired by your dog is asking someone else to take on all that headache just for your family's gratification. The biggest thing to remember is this: a horse only has one baby at a time. A dog can have 4 to 10. How do you make sure all those puppies end up in good homes? The world does not need backyard horse breeders and it does not need backyard puppy breeders. Sadly, there are a whole lot of unwanted dogs and horses out there because people do not breed responsibly and the product of those breedings end up abused, abandoned and unloved. You don't want to be a part of that. Hope this gives you suitable argument against it! ~ Gloria Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B Point Posted March 3, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 Well stated Gloria. I certainly can't argue with any of that..except for maybe the ultrasound bit.... I think what she was getting at is approach a breeder, let them do what they do best..., while I of course....pay (dearly) for it all... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pam Wolf Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 Send me a message and I'll put you in touch with people who have some very nice working dogs in Japan. Additionally they can help you see if your pup has enough ability to be worthy of breeding. I've seen many of the border collies in Japan and most are from show lines and not very talented on sheep at all. There is a Japanese Sheepdog Trials association and a good trainer located near Fuji-san. There is also a good trainer on the north island. If you want another Border Collie, purchase a pup (preferably male so you will not have an accidental litter of pups) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B Point Posted March 3, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 Send me a message and I'll put you in touch with people who have some very nice working dogs in Japan. Additionally they can help you see if your pup has enough ability to be worthy of breeding. I've seen many of the border collies in Japan and most are from show lines and not very talented on sheep at all. There is a Japanese Sheepdog Trials association and a good trainer located near Fuji-san. There is also a good trainer on the north island. If you want another Border Collie, purchase a pup (preferably male so you will not have an accidental litter of pups) Pam.....It's good to finally talk with you. I tried before as well but it is saying that you "cannot receive any new messages".. maybe your maibox is full... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shetlander Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 Personally, I would wait until my dog is at least two years old and actually, I prefer 5 or 6 years apart in age. He hasn't fully matured, for one thing. Maybe your guy is different, but Quinn at 9 months was still very much a work in progress. He was a very different dog at 2 and again at 3. And some health clearances like HD can't be done until age two, if you are breeding a dog. Last, while two young dogs are tons of fun, when they are old it can be hard (and very expensive) if there are health issues, not to mention losing both so close together if they both live to old age. Just something to consider. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B Point Posted March 3, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 Thanks Liz. All this is purely thinking out loud at this point....of which my wife seems to do a lot. I was thinking at least a year or two down the road and even then I'd just find an unrelated pup. This hiring a breeder isn't something I'm taking at all seriously. At 9 months Tio is most certainly a work in process and I spend a lot of time with him everyday working on new stuff. He's a pretty damned good boy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shetlander Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 At 9 months Tio is most certainly a work in process and I spend a lot of time with him everyday working on new stuff. He's a pretty damned good boy. They are wonderful dogs, aren't they? I am crazy about Quinn. But even if I wasn't taking into account his ability to work stock (which is middling, but very keen), he has autoimmunne issues I would never want to pass on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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