schrevolution Posted February 16, 2014 Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 Hi, it seems Ziggy thinks he owns the sofa, so I've been working hard to teach him "off" in different areas of the apartment, especially the sofa. Sometimes (like right now) he still escalates beyond responding to the command and gets increasingly toothy. He was doing much better this morning, but it seems like he gets to a point of stubbornness where the only option for me is to put him in timeout so I can calm down. We've also been working on "leave it" with treats and toys and while we're doing training sessions he gets it, but it becomes much harder to get him to listen when there are no treats around. I've read different things about using timeouts, I have to use his crate because there is no other good place for me to restrain him but could this be counterintuitive to him liking his crate later? I've been feeding him in his crate so he goes in willingly on his own, but all I can do when he escalates to biting is put him in and walk away. I try not to make a fuss or anything, and even now he doesn't seem distressed, just sleeping like a baby. He displays this same kind of behavior when I sit on the floor with him. I'm pretty sure it's still resource guarding, because the whole yelp and ignore him method doesn't seem to work and he will often turn his teeth to the sofa when I walk away to ignore him. I want to keep up positive reinforcement, but can using timeouts work with that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shetlander Posted February 16, 2014 Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 Is he resource guarding from you? Is he new to your home? How old is he? Anyone else (human or canine) living with you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schrevolution Posted February 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 He is guarding against me. He's 9 months and I don't have any other pets and have had him for about two weeks. It's not to the point where he is growling at me, but for a few days I wasn't able to sit on the sofa without him jumping up and gnawing at my arms, etc. I'm trying to work on his training more and keep him busy, but I also would like to sit and settle down at different times of the day without getting pounced on. It could be need for exercise, he's stuck inside for a few weeks after recovering from parvo, so he's still contagious and I have to limit his outside time. I've been doing what I can with , kongs, training, car rides, to keep him from getting destructively bored. I thought it was me not playing with him enough, but even after a nice rough game of tug he did the same thing, not letting me just sit on the sofa. Today was better after doing a nice long training session with "off" and then reinforcing "leave it", but about midday he started again and to stop myself from getting frustrated and prevent him from just being able to gnaw on me or the sofa I put him in his crate for about ten minutes. Then it was like night and day, he listened when I went through some of his commands and didn't try to push his way onto the sofa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcnewe2 Posted February 16, 2014 Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 How bout you not letting him on the sofa? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz P Posted February 16, 2014 Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 I am also confused why he is allowed on the sofa if he guards it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schrevolution Posted February 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 That's true, I may have to bar him completely, I wouldn't mind him sitting next to me if he could be more settled, but maybe that's going to have to change. I've been praising him for laying down on the floor next to me and making sure to take up the whole sofa space so he can't jump up. Maybe this will have to be a permanent change then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schrevolution Posted February 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 Liz, he wasn't displaying this behavior until a few days ago when he was back at full energy once the parvo subsided. I thought it was exercise related, or puppy nipping behavior so I tried the typical methods to stop nipping, like making a high pitched noise and walking away to ignore him but it wasn't working and after reading a bit I realized it may be him resource guarding the sofa. It was pretty silly of me to let him on the sofa in the first place I realize now. I guess we're going to have to just do more work, I've probably confused him and I want to be consistent so I think off the sofa it will be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shetlander Posted February 16, 2014 Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 Is there any chance he is playing with you? Based on just the brief description, it sounds more like adolescent rough housing than RG. But regardless, the behavior is unacceptable. I agree with Kristen, why not keep him off the sofa for now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schrevolution Posted February 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 That's what is probably going to have to happen. Maybe it is rough play and I'm just overthinking it, I feel like a mom trying not to do anything wrong and doing way too much Hopefully I can get him to rein it back and no more sofa for him. He's definitely willing to learn so I guess just keep the training up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcnewe2 Posted February 16, 2014 Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 So how bout a just telling him no when he tries tobget on the sofa. Instead of blocking him which is just a challenge for him, not a clear direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alligande Posted February 16, 2014 Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 It sounds like rough play not resource guarding, if he was guarding he would be showing you teeth and a snarl if you wanted to sit on the sofa, if he is joining you and as you described gnawing on you then it sounds like inapropriate play. Just don't let him on the sofa, in time he will be able to come back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schrevolution Posted February 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 I'll try that next time, I don't want him to feel like I'm pushing him around. I'm not sure if he understands "no" completely, but I guess it's just one more thing to work on. It sounds silly, thinking about it now, that he knows sit, down, paw, etc. but I haven't really used "no". I mean he gets when I say "Ahah!" and he's doing something so maybe that's his "no" but maybe I need something more direct for both of us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alligande Posted February 16, 2014 Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 I think someone mentioned in another thread recently that positive training does not equal permissiveness It's not you who is being pushy but your dog in chewing your arm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shetlander Posted February 16, 2014 Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 Teaching manners is not pushing him around. His behavior reminds me of a Rescue shepherd mix my family got when I was young. His idea of play was to gnaw on my arms leaving vivid bruises. He really was just playing but it was inappropriate. When I first started playing tug with Quinn, if he got skin, I gave a loud "ow!" Then I turned my back on him, no interaction for about 10 seconds. When I resumed the game, he would be more careful. You could try some version of that with Logan rather than putting him in the crate unless he is acting overstimulated. It really does sound like goofy but unacceptable play. If getting on the sofa makes Logan think it is wrestling time, I would keep him off, at least for the time being as he settles in and learns manners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urge to herd Posted February 16, 2014 Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 ^^^^ This, what Alligande says. Block all access to the sofa. If he's not confined while you're not home, then put chairs or something on the sofa to block it from him. It does sound like he might be trying to initiate play. Up his interactions with you On Your Terms. More brief, (under 5 minutes) training sessions. Work on that 'off-switch' you may have read about here. Does he have a spot to rest on besides his crate? Teach him 'go to your mat'. Use an old bathtowel or something you don't mind him getting doggy. If he doesn't know 'down' or 'lie down' teach that on the mat to start with. Gradually build up how long he stays on the mat. If he's in a down on the mat and falls asleep, great. Let him sleep a few minutes, then wake him gently and engage in something else. You can alternately send him to his 'mat' or his crate for a break. And get used to sending him off to rest because YOU need the break. It's tempting to make it all about him, but part of being in any healthy relationship is taking care of your own needs. Whether it's a human/human friendship or a human/canine one, you need to make sure you get your needs met. How much longer do you have with 'house arrest'? All in all, it sounds like you're doing pretty well. Have you invited other humans over to visit? If he's as people crazy as my Buzz was, that would be a huge treat for him. It might also be stressful for him, so use your judgement as to whether or not it's a good thing. Ruth and Agent Gibbs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urge to herd Posted February 16, 2014 Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 I suspect if he was resource guarding, you'd know it. Serious growling, stiff body language, real snapping rather than just grabbing your arm. Just re-read your initial post. His ignoring the yelp response doesn't have anything to do with it being resource guarding or not. Truly, a growl or grab from a dog who is RG is pretty obvious. Those dogs mean business. He might be overstimulated and/or overtired and need a break, but not be able to do it for himself. So, along with more frequent, perhaps briefer training sessions, incorporate that 'down' thing into the end of some of your sessions. That's part of the 'off-switch', that the human decides when and how play is conducted. Ruth and Agent Gibbs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloria Atwater Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 I'll try that next time, I don't want him to feel like I'm pushing him around. I'm not sure if he understands "no" completely, but I guess it's just one more thing to work on. It sounds silly, thinking about it now, that he knows sit, down, paw, etc. but I haven't really used "no". I mean he gets when I say "Ahah!" and he's doing something so maybe that's his "no" but maybe I need something more direct for both of us. Then this is a perfect time for him to start learning "no." Establishing boundaries is never pushing him around. After all, what would an older dog do, if he persisted in something that dog did not like? It would sharply and in no uncertain terms tell him, "NO WAY." You're doing him a favor by teaching him boundaries now. The more he learns the value of "no," the better off your relationship will be. After all, you never know when a well-placed "no" may save him from injury or worse.. Positive training does not equal never hearing no. Best of luck! And I agree, that sounds more like hyper-active, over-stimulated rough play, rather than actual guarding. Resource guarding for real is scary. I suspect your guy is just feeling good now and being a brat. ~ Gloria Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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