TDFOSTER Posted December 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2014 GentleLake, Thank you for saying the words I could not...Even though I have been cranky about my rescue that I work with, they absoluetly go above and beyond the call to make sure that every dog has every chance that they can have. In all my frustration the last weeks, the owner wrote me when I was doubting what rights I had about Jade and said " I would just like to start off by saying that I may have legal custody of Jade, you are her mom, her handler, her advocate. Therefore, you have an enormous amount of say in what happens to her. You know her far better than I do. I trust your judgment with her and see my main role here as a support person for you and voice of reason if needed." What more could I ask. There are resuces and owners that would have already put Jade down....and I do not believe that is the right answer for her. I believe I just have not done enough work on my part and/or found the right behaviorist/trainer to work with her. I see so many good things in her that I just can't allow that decision to be made just yet. And i know that my rescue does not want that either. My resuce actually spent thousands of dollars on a deaf dog, sending him to Florida for training so he would not have to be put down. He is now with a family, a totally changed dog...and he was what some would call aggressive, but it really had to do that he wasn't able to let people know what he needed. So I agree with Gentle Lake...I hope you don't let that one rescue spoil the pot. There are so many deserving dogs that need our help. And all of you have so much to offer all of us that need help. I am so grateful that all of you have taken the time to read, respond, give comments and advice to me...because maybe without it I might have given up on her. Have a Happy New Year! Teri Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gcv-border Posted December 31, 2014 Report Share Posted December 31, 2014 A short comment about Jade's repetitive UTIs: I am sorry that the vet did not culture from the start. My vet always suggests a sterile bladder tap be obtained and sent out for culture. I wasn't happy to have to spend the extra money, but in the end, it was the right thing to do since my dog's UTI would not have been cleared up by the 'normal' antibiotic used for UTIs because a different bacteria than 'normal' was the causative agent. And even then, he prescribed a longer than normal time period for antibiotics - 6 weeks on antibiotics vs. the usual 3 or 4 weeks. To try and prevent recurring UTIs (assuming that the UTI has been 100% cleared up), the vet suggested that I keep my dog on cranberry plus D-mannose pills. This is because her UTI was caused by E.coli and the D-mannose helps prevent E.coli from attaching and establishing an infection. The cranberry part is just for general Urinary tract and bladder health. I just wanted to relate my experience with a repetitive UTI (3 times over 3 years, but the dog was over 15 years old when she had her first UTI) on the off chance that some part of it may be of help. I hope Jade's UTI gets cleared up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDFOSTER Posted December 31, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2014 Jovi, I was also a bit disappointed that they didn't do a culture. I am willing to give them this chance to clear it up, but if it is not I will request a sterile specimen and a culture. I really believe it never ever got cleared up from the first round. The put her on the same antibiotic until this time and there was only about 5 days between the end of the antibiotic and the retest this time and she was full of red and white blood cells and some bacteria. Hopefully she is getting better. Her disposition seems a bit better, she isn't licking quite as much, and Mollie is not nearly as interested in that area of Jade as she was before the start of this antibiotic. I also will look into your suggestions of at least giving her the cranberry. I know it works pretty well in humans. Happy New Year! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackdawgs Posted December 31, 2014 Report Share Posted December 31, 2014 This is exactly what I meant by rescues not providing the same standard of care for fosters that personal dogs would receive. Minimally the antibiotic should have been switched between infections 1 and 2. And 4 infections in less than 1 year without a culture and perhaps other diagnosics is...well never mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentleLake Posted December 31, 2014 Report Share Posted December 31, 2014 ^^ This sounds like it may have been more of an issue about the vet than the rescue. I'll say it again, the 2 border collie rescues I volunteer with both give their dogs the same care and attention that they do their personal dogs. You've just had a bad experience and are painting all rescues with the same broad brush. It's a mistake to do so. And it's very sad that you're unwilling to give up your misperception. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDFOSTER Posted December 31, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2014 I have to take some responsibiility here. I probably didn't question as much as I should have regarding the frequency. When I actually took Jade in and had a face to face with the vet, she and I are on the same page. She feels we did not clear it up the first time. She wants to give these antibiotics a chance to work...if they do not...she will go the next steps. I might agree that sometimes working with rescues if you are not vocal...which I don't think I was ... in the beginning the path of least resistence can be taken...not always. But when I finally put on my big girl panties and said we need to do something different, the rescue and the vet were way accomodating. My sister works with a different rescue and she says the same thing. Put on the big girl pants and fight for the dog...the rescues that we are working with always and I mean always have the dogs interest at heart. BUT when you are working with 150 plus volunteers and anywhere from 150-200 dogs at a time...things can happen. I try to be a part of the solution and not part of the problem. I am sorry Blackdawgs that you had such a horrible encounter with that rescue. Good fosters are so desperately needed...and I don't just mean...fosters that take the dogs in and just let them be until they are adopted...I mean good fosters that really work with the dogs and take care of them as they are their own. I commend you for having done that. It isn't easy. I do hope that the bad taste goes away and you can someday find a good rescue to work with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackdawgs Posted December 31, 2014 Report Share Posted December 31, 2014 Actually, I have had a significant amount of contact with multiple rescues and county animal services. I've fostered for 2 rescues and my comments regarding cheap vet care would apply to both. i offered to foster for a third organization, but emails and calls went unanswered. I did have a dialogue with the president of that rescue after sending an "I offered to foster for you and did not receive the courtesy of a response, what the heck is wrong with you?" email. Over the years, I've offered to write grants and take photographs...and well I am not going to beg to volunteer for a rescue. Rescues should operate as businesses (where the animal is the product) and they don't. In the business world, emails and phone calls get returned within 1 working day. There is no reason why a volunteer can't return a call at 8 PM or type a quick email. It is really simply courtesy. I've gone to adoption events where the dogs were dirty and stank. Even Goodwill washes the clothing before it is put on display. Anyway, I am sorry to highjack this thread. It sounds like this dog has a medical problem that could have been contributing to its behavior. I don't know if the rescue, the vet, or both are to blame. i hope that things work out for the dog and its foster mom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentleLake Posted December 31, 2014 Report Share Posted December 31, 2014 Many of them do, and many respond in a timely manner. The once I volunteer with do. I'm one of the people who responds for one of them. Your experiences, while disappointing, are not universal. But you seem to be so jaded by them that you're unwilling to believe others' experiences and open yourself up to the possibility that there's more good in the rescue world than what you've seen. I feel sorry that you're limiting yourself in that way. Rescues should operate as businesses (where the animal is the product) and they don't. In the business world, emails and phone calls get returned within 1 working day. There is no reason why a volunteer can't return a call at 8 PM or type a quick email. It is really simply courtesy. I've gone to adoption events where the dogs were dirty and stank. Even Goodwill washes the clothing before it is put on display. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chene Posted December 31, 2014 Report Share Posted December 31, 2014 Actually, I have had a significant amount of contact with multiple rescues and county animal services. I've fostered for 2 rescues and my comments regarding cheap vet care would apply to both. i offered to foster for a third organization, but emails and calls went unanswered. I did have a dialogue with the president of that rescue after sending an "I offered to foster for you and did not receive the courtesy of a response, what the heck is wrong with you?" email. Over the years, I've offered to write grants and take photographs...and well I am not going to beg to volunteer for a rescue. Rescues should operate as businesses (where the animal is the product) and they don't. In the business world, emails and phone calls get returned within 1 working day. There is no reason why a volunteer can't return a call at 8 PM or type a quick email. It is really simply courtesy. I've gone to adoption events where the dogs were dirty and stank. Even Goodwill washes the clothing before it is put on display. Anyway, I am sorry to highjack this thread. It sounds like this dog has a medical problem that could have been contributing to its behavior. I don't know if the rescue, the vet, or both are to blame. i hope that things work out for the dog and its foster mom. There are more than three rescues in the world. You don't have to keep looking for one that fits your needs and provides excellent care for its animals, but it's ridiculous not to acknowledge that they are out there, in abundance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandysfarm Posted December 31, 2014 Report Share Posted December 31, 2014 Jovi, I was also a bit disappointed that they didn't do a culture. I am willing to give them this chance to clear it up, but if it is not I will request a sterile specimen and a culture. I really believe it never ever got cleared up from the first round. The put her on the same antibiotic until this time and there was only about 5 days between the end of the antibiotic and the retest this time and she was full of red and white blood cells and some bacteria. Hopefully she is getting better. Her disposition seems a bit better, she isn't licking quite as much, and Mollie is not nearly as interested in that area of Jade as she was before the start of this antibiotic. I also will look into your suggestions of at least giving her the cranberry. I know it works pretty well in humans. Happy New Year! Better ask about everyday cranberry pills since I remember reading that they're a caustic. They won't cure either so they're as a preventative in times of good bladder health. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackdawgs Posted December 31, 2014 Report Share Posted December 31, 2014 Ofcourse there are good rescues. But, I've been around the block enough to view rescues cautiously until proven otherwise. IMHO, this dog could and should have received better care for its UTIs and these UTIs may have contributed to its behaviorial issues. Red flags should have been raised at UTI #2. If a rescue is unable to keep tabs of recurrent infections in one of its animals, it has too many animals in its care. Why should a foster have to "put on its big girl pants and fight" for a dog to receive basic medical care? This behavorially (and medically) challenged dog has been in Teri's home for 10 months with no end in sight. Isn't she already doing enough? Now she also has to fight for a urine culture that should have been performed 3 infections ago? Or is it out of sight of out mind? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentleLake Posted January 1, 2015 Report Share Posted January 1, 2015 I really don't mean to be flogging a dead horse, but take a look at this if you think all rescues are negligent in the care of their dogs. http://www.glenhighlandfarm.com/ghfdogs.htm#liam I think you have to click on the Meet Liam and Lennon link -- 2nd photo down from the top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackdawgs Posted January 1, 2015 Report Share Posted January 1, 2015 Oh for godsakes...Did you not read what I wrote? Here it is again: "Ofcourse there are good rescues. But, I've been around the block enough to view rescues cautiously until proven otherwise." This thread is not about GHF. We are talking about a dog that has been in foster care for 10 months, a dog in which euthanasia was recently put in the table, and a dog that has had 4 UTIs in less than a year which were treated with the same "cheap" (not my word) antibiotic for infections #1-3. Do your personal dogs receive this level of care or better? Recently, my vet absolutely insisted on a sterile collection and culture after UTI #1 was unsuccessfully treated. I really don't mean to be flogging a dead horse, but take a look at this if you think all rescues are negligent in the care of their dogs. http://www.glenhighlandfarm.com/ghfdogs.htm#liam I think you have to click on the Meet Liam and Lennon link -- 2nd photo down from the top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDFOSTER Posted January 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 Just dropping in to leave a short note. I haven't posted in a while as things are quiet and we are waiting for Jade to get through the antibiotics and have urine retested. The Behaviorist is out of town and won't be back until Friday so we haven't started any work....I am pretty sure she wanted to wait until the UTI was better anyway. Been working a bit with the Barkerville muzzle. Just giving her treats while I hold it up. I want to move to trying to actually strap it on and give her treats this weekend. Hope everyone had a good new years! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDFOSTER Posted January 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 OK - Just got off the phone with the vet. Scheduling a sterile UA and culture. Hope to get it done tomorrow but may be a little later in the week. That also means whatever day it is she has to come to work with me. My boss won't be here so I am a little less stressed about that. The behaviorist is coming to the house on Sunday and we are going to work at least twice a week with Jade. She wanted to wait until Jade was through with this round of antibiotics and see if that helped her demeanor if she was feeling better. I will say that since she has felt better we have not had nearly as much snarking going on. That does my heart good. Thank you all for standing by and giving me things to think about and do and for just being here. Teri Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentleLake Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 That all makes a lot of sense. I know when I don't feel well I can be peevish, too. Once again, many thanks for sticking with this girl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gcv-border Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 Glad to hear of the improvements! Best wishes for continued progress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D'Elle Posted January 21, 2015 Report Share Posted January 21, 2015 Thank you for standing by this dog and continuing to try to help her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDFOSTER Posted January 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2015 Sterile urine was obtained today and culture...so hopefully we will have a few more answers in a couple of days. Jade has been with me at the office today...not one of her favorite places but I brought her high value treat to work on and a kong with frozen peanut butter so she has been engaged some. She really doesn't like the guys. She will go up to them, give them a quick sniff, turn around and walk away. They all get on their knees and try to engage her from a distance but she is having no part of it. Leaving that for another day to work on. I did want to report that we have not had one snarking incident in the house for well over a week. And she actually has been playing with the challenged shitzpoo in the house. She will roll over submissively and let him bark at her and then try to play tug of war. Don't want to put too much into this but it feels good to not have to be on pins and needles all the time with the other dogs. Was trying to take videos for Paula when she comes Sunday but smashed my phone today so what I have uploaded to the cloud is probably all she is going to get for awhile! Hope everyone is doing well. Teri Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tess's Girl Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 For some reason the quote function and I don't get along. But in part of your post you said, "She really doesn't like the guys. She will go up to them, give them a quick sniff, turn around and walk away. They all get on their knees and try to engage her from a distance but she is having no part of it. Leaving that for another day to work on." Isn't work where she bit your boss? Is she currently wearing a muzzle while there? If not, don't let her go up to them, don't let them try and engage her. Instruct them to ignore her, and if they can't do that then she doesn't need to go to work with you. For fearful dogs people constantly trying to engage them, even from a distance, its too much pressure for them. If you have to, tether her to your desk so you know she can't go anywhere. If she bites again the odds are not good for her. Otherwise it sounds like she is feeling much better and doing very well with your other dogs. Hopefully the snarkiness was due to her not feeling well and will get better if the UTI is cleared up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d112358 Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 Yeah, at this point if you absolutely have to have her at work I would keep her in a covered crate and not let anyone approach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackdawgs Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 I am beyond goobsmacked that you brought this dog to work after the previous incident. Muzzle or not. Although anything is possible, I find it difficult to believe that the rescue or the behaviorist would have been on board with this. All the prozac and behavioral sessions in the world will not make a difference if you don't follow instructions to the letter when the behaviorist is not physically present. If you are unsure about something, ask the behaviorist or whoever your local resource person is before you take action. Please keep this dog at home (exceptions vet and supervised training) until you and the behaviorist have a plan. If the dog needs day care, make some sort of arrangement with the rescue, behaviorist, or vet, so it doesn't have to go to work with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eileen Stein Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 I don't think any of us knows enough about your working conditions and your co-workers to say whether bringing Jade to work yesterday was a mistake. It sounds like bringing her to work on this one day was necessary to let you take her to the vet for the sterile urine catch. Presumably your co-workers know about the biting incident. I agree that I would have advised them to ignore her rather than trying to reassure her, because even friendly overtures can put a lot of pressure on a dog, but it sounds as if things went well. I know you are very conscious of the risks involved and the need to protect both Jade and others from another biting incident. You know the dog, and none of us has ever seen her. You've taken responsibility (and then some!) for this dog, and as the person who has the responsibility and knows the situation best, you are the one who should be making decisions like this. I'm glad to hear that she has been less reactive in the last week. I think there's reason to hope that cleaning up the UTIs (which can be very painful) will make a big difference in what up to now has looked like a behavioral problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvw Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 Excellent post Eileen. I wish we had a like or thumbs up choice for a post! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDFOSTER Posted January 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 Wow. It sounds like I might have really screwed up here. I made it very clear that moving at all towards her would not be a good move on their part. I did not have a choice yesterday as I live 30 plus miles from where I work and the vet is. I kept her on a leash near me. I try to be cognizant of what freaks her out the most. And we are not at a point where I put the muzzle on and leave it on. She won't be coming back to work with me. I appreciate you all taking me to task. I will remember. The behaviorist did know she was coming with me due to the vetting situation. We didn't discuss the fact that the guys might have to come into my office. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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