Shetlander Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 Holy moly, if it's wrong to coo over adorable border collie puppies, I don't want to be right! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geonni banner Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mum24dog Posted February 1, 2014 Report Share Posted February 1, 2014 Aww heck. It ain't easy being a curmudgeon... That's why they call me the pedantic mystic. Aww heck. It ain't easy being a curmudgeon... That's why they call me the pedantic mystic. If it's any consolation I can't bring myself to praise a dog's appearance either - it would feel rather hypocritical when I believe that looks shouldn't count. I'm not interested in puppies so I'm not tempted that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted February 1, 2014 Report Share Posted February 1, 2014 Well, I hate to say it but I am rather in the same camp as you. If someone posts photos of a well-bred, working-bred pup, I'd be ready to say it's cute because that's what puppies are, and that pup has the potential to be the kind of dog I'd admire. If someone posts photos of a pup that I might suspect (or realize) is something else, I rarely post a comment at all even though pups are cute by default. I try not to praise based on looks alone but sometimes I do say something just to be nice and welcoming. Hopefully, people will start to learn somewhere, and it might as well be here. Aww heck. It ain't easy being a curmudgeon... That's why they call me the pedantic mystic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shetlander Posted February 1, 2014 Report Share Posted February 1, 2014 For me, anyway, all my dogs have been beautiful and their intelligence far above average. That includes the basset-rott mix. Others saw a comical body. I saw a gorgeous face with loving, wolf eyes and a dog with an amazing sense of humor. I'm ok being shallow that way and telling a puppy's owner the new sunshine in their life is cute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geonni banner Posted February 1, 2014 Report Share Posted February 1, 2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PSmitty Posted February 1, 2014 Report Share Posted February 1, 2014 Oh, for Pete's sake. (Insert eye rolling emoticon here, since I can't find it on my phone) I'll be shallow with you, Liz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gideon's girl Posted February 1, 2014 Report Share Posted February 1, 2014 Just never get an Australian Retriever. They are very conflicted. Their Golden Retriever side says they should love everyone and welcome them with a big slurp. Their Aussie side says those are strangers, they could be dangerous, don't let them come near, maybe they need a nip. We could just say to all the new puppy owners "Yep, it's a BC alright. Come back in a couple years and we'll let you know what we really think." but I'd rather acknowlege puppyitis and all that. Time enough later to point out that the true measure of a BC is what it does, not who it's parents are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentleLake Posted February 1, 2014 Report Share Posted February 1, 2014 I'm with PSmitty and Gideon's Girl. We could just say to all the new puppy owners "Yep, it's a BC alright. Come back in a couple years and we'll let you know what we really think." but I'd rather acknowlege puppyitis and all that. Time enough later to point out that the true measure of a BC is what it does, not who it's parents are. Especially this. If we don't give them what they want with their new puppy, they may not stick around long enough to hear the important stuff later. Heck, it's hard enough getting through to people who don't want to hear what we're saying when they ask for our opinions and drop out of sight, never to be heard from again. No need to loose them when their babies are still only 10 weeks old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Root Beer Posted February 1, 2014 Report Share Posted February 1, 2014 As someone who appreciates beauty for its own sake, I consider "your dog is beautiful" (gorgeous/cute/stunning, whatever) to be high praise, indeed. I didn't choose a single one of my dogs for his or her looks, but I appreciate their beauty, all the same.In fact, when I remember Tessa when she first came to us, "beautiful" takes on a dimension of meaning that goes far beyond what is on the surface. While I appreciate the physical side of beauty, the true beauty of this particular dog radiates from within. It speaks of the trust and joy the beauty of her spirit that was completely broken when she first came into my life. Her beauty - inside and out - is one of her greatest accomplishments.Speedy was beautiful. Tessa is beautiful. Maddie was a very pretty girl. Dean is gorgeous. And Sammie is, even at 14 and 1/2, cuteness itself.Of course that isn't all there is to any of them, but I will always take the compliment "beautiful" (or cute, gorgeous, etc) as a most worthy compliment!Call me superficial, if you will. I am in a way. I appreciate the extremely simple things in life, including beauty. A beautiful dog, whether that beauty be physical or something about who the dog is, is high up on my list of things that I thoroughly enjoy encountering.And I'm not saying that anyone who sees it differently is wrong. This is one of those areas where different people are going to have different points of view. I just wanted to pipe up on behalf of those who would say, "I actually appreciate it when people say my dog is beautiful!" Or cute, or striking, or gorgeous, or pretty, or whatever.It's kind of cool because it's something I can appreciate along with the giver of the compliment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted February 1, 2014 Report Share Posted February 1, 2014 Well, and keeping in the honesty and full disclosure vein, I do think they all are cute no matter what their background is. I'm just not really in the gushing over everybody's new pup camp unless there is a reason why *I* am particularly attracted to a pup's photos, part of which can be what I perceive to be the pup's background and potential. Gush away, everyone who wants to, because the new people (and new pup people) here should feel welcome and willing to ask questions and learn, and are eager to share their little cuties with us all. And, let's face, if any of us doesn't find puppies cute, I'd wonder about them... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simba Posted February 1, 2014 Report Share Posted February 1, 2014 I feel like I'm the only person in the world who considers a mix-breed litter from healthy mentally-stable family pets more forgivable than a deliberately-bred bulldog, pug, wolfhound, dogue de bordeaux etc. Not the serial offenders, but those who breed one mix of something-that-possibly-has-dachshund with a labrador-ish and give or sell them to those they know. Much more likely to get hybrid vigour out of that than a doodle, and at least you're not breeding deliberately for problems, or encouraging the idea that it's a 'fancy' dog which needs to be bred on lots to make money. Plus in a pet- is there really as much of a need for 'breeding true', for most people, if you don't need either non-shedding or an ability to work? I could see breeding for size as important, yes. Temperament and health tend to be pretty good in your heinz 57 dogs. The standard in that instance is 'something that won't cause trouble for an average pet owner and won't die or get expensive diseases for a long while'. I don't see a problem breeding dogs to that standard. Yes, you can argue that there are too many dogs full stop. And it is better to get dogs from a shelter. But talking specifically about the breeding side, I think there's still a lot of ideas about pedigrees influenced by Victorian ideas about blood purity. It wasn't too long ago that that's how pet and working dogs were bred. Of course mixed-breed and purebred litters for working purposes are much more ethically defensible. But the current system of breeding strictly closed-registry pet dogs to look like a platonic ideal is not benefiting pet owners, and defining that as 'good breeding' is nonsense. Yet that's what's happening in the dog world at the moment, and that's been the accepted line for the last century. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gideon's girl Posted February 1, 2014 Report Share Posted February 1, 2014 Temperament and health tend to be pretty good in your heinz 57 dogs. I would disagree with this for one reason only, and I'm not sure disagree is quite it either. But when I see a Chow Chow, I know what temperment to expect and when I see a Cairn Terrier, I know what temperment to expect. I don't particularly like either or think either has a "good" temperment, but I do know what I can expect out of them. When I see a small wire haired black mutt with a wagging tail, I don't know what it's temperment is going to be, and I certainly don't expect it to be a piranha with fur. It had neither the Chow or the Cairn temperment, but it somehow had the absolute worst parts of both. And in 40 years of working with animals, I have never been chewed up worse. And I've been bitten by both Chows and Cairns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sekah Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 Pugs: the Godwin's Law of dog breeding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSnappy Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 As I work in a high volume shelter that sees a lot of mixed breed dogs, I would argue that there are plenty of unhealthy and temperamentally unsound mutts passing through. I don't see them being ubiquitously healthier or better tempered than the purebreds coming through the shelter (we get a sh*t ton of those too). I have a little permanent/medical foster mutt that has malignant cancer sitting in my lap right now. Also, "pricey Tibetan Mastiffs" have passed through our shelter unclaimed too. I LOVE puppies. All kinds of puppies. I think puppies are adorable and I appreciate every opportunity I have to SQUEE over one. Or several. RDM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gcv-border Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 Just today I checked the "pets for sale" section and I saw a new one -- a Saint Berdoodle. And for only $1500. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted February 3, 2014 Report Share Posted February 3, 2014 And where is the banging your head on the brick wall emoticon? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mum24dog Posted February 3, 2014 Report Share Posted February 3, 2014 Well, and keeping in the honesty and full disclosure vein, I do think they all are cute no matter what their background is. I'm just not really in the gushing over everybody's new pup camp unless there is a reason why *I* am particularly attracted to a pup's photos, part of which can be what I perceive to be the pup's background and potential. Gush away, everyone who wants to, because the new people (and new pup people) here should feel welcome and willing to ask questions and learn, and are eager to share their little cuties with us all. And, let's face, if any of us doesn't find puppies cute, I'd wonder about them... I'm not a gusher whether it's puppies or babies. I don't see the point of puppies in particular since they turn into real dogs in the blink of an eye. I don't mind others gushing as long as they don't try to get me to join in, which my friends don't. The best you'll get out of me is an enquiry where it came from. Like you I'm interested in background and potential. Cute is OK but it's so transitory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mum24dog Posted February 3, 2014 Report Share Posted February 3, 2014 Well, and keeping in the honesty and full disclosure vein, I do think they all are cute no matter what their background is. I'm just not really in the gushing over everybody's new pup camp unless there is a reason why *I* am particularly attracted to a pup's photos, part of which can be what I perceive to be the pup's background and potential. Gush away, everyone who wants to, because the new people (and new pup people) here should feel welcome and willing to ask questions and learn, and are eager to share their little cuties with us all. And, let's face, if any of us doesn't find puppies cute, I'd wonder about them... I'm not a gusher whether it's puppies or babies. I don't see the point of puppies in particular since they turn into real dogs in the blink of an eye. I don't mind others gushing as long as they don't try to get me to join in, which my friends don't. The best you'll get out of me is an enquiry where it came from. Like you I'm interested in background and potential. Cute is OK but it's so transitory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mum24dog Posted February 3, 2014 Report Share Posted February 3, 2014 Well, and keeping in the honesty and full disclosure vein, I do think they all are cute no matter what their background is. I'm just not really in the gushing over everybody's new pup camp unless there is a reason why *I* am particularly attracted to a pup's photos, part of which can be what I perceive to be the pup's background and potential. Gush away, everyone who wants to, because the new people (and new pup people) here should feel welcome and willing to ask questions and learn, and are eager to share their little cuties with us all. And, let's face, if any of us doesn't find puppies cute, I'd wonder about them... I'm not a gusher whether it's puppies or babies. I don't see the point of puppies in particular since they turn into real dogs in the blink of an eye. I don't mind others gushing as long as they don't try to get me to join in, which my friends don't. The best you'll get out of me is an enquiry where it came from. Like you I'm interested in background and potential. Cute is OK but it's so transitory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mum24dog Posted February 3, 2014 Report Share Posted February 3, 2014 Sorry for the repeat posts. Tablets are another thing I don't get on with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shetlander Posted February 3, 2014 Report Share Posted February 3, 2014 Boy, you really aren't a gusher about puppies or babies! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madrose124 Posted February 3, 2014 Report Share Posted February 3, 2014 Without reading all other posts, and skimming most of them, I would say it's probably equally good as it is bad for many reasons. For the good: giving mixes catchy "breed" names might increase adoption rates for shelter dogs. Especially for those people that seem to cling to the importance of a breed name and the apparent "prestige." I think there was a rescue in South America that made up breeds for the dogs they rescued and it really worked quite affectively. When bred right to serve a purpose, it has it's perks. Whether that purpse be a less shedding dog (like the Australian bred Labradoodle that differs from the American version), or, in my opinion I personally prefer that people breed a cross version of dogs like pugs because those poor things are bred to a standard that essentially renders them prone to all kinds of health issues... I do agree there is something to "hybrid vigor" when done right. I am not opposed to people creating a new breed to serve a particular purpose, as our use for dogs are forever evolving. But that being said, I agree that most of them are bred from people jumping on trendy bandwagons, breeding non quality dogs to make crosses and make money with little other regard. I will always hold to my belief that no one should breed there dog for any other reason than for quality and purpose (whatever purpose that may be, companion, sport, working). Not if it has papers, not if they want to experience "the miracle of life," not if they just want her offspring, not if they want to make $$$, not to "calm her down." 95% should be spaying and neutering and leave the breeding to professionals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simba Posted February 5, 2014 Report Share Posted February 5, 2014 Devil's advocate- if 95% spay and neuter, what will that do to the gene pool? Will 95% of all dogs be spayed and neutered? Or will we have to see a return to large-scale kennels for hobby breeders, with reduced showing and much more breeding? Edit: to clarify, I have no plans to ever breed a dog. Ad I completely agree people should not breed unsound dogs or dogs for stupid reasons, or working dogs (border collies) that do not work. I just do not trust most of the 'professionals' we have to do that and preserve the dog as a healthy partner, and there don't seem to be enough of the good professionals to stave off a genetic bottleneck if everyone else stops. I agree with the entire rest of your post completely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madrose124 Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 Devil's advocate- if 95% spay and neuter, what will that do to the gene pool? Will 95% of all dogs be spayed and neutered? Or will we have to see a return to large-scale kennels for hobby breeders, with reduced showing and much more breeding? Edit: to clarify, I have no plans to ever breed a dog. Ad I completely agree people should not breed unsound dogs or dogs for stupid reasons, or working dogs (border collies) that do not work. I just do not trust most of the 'professionals' we have to do that and preserve the dog as a healthy partner, and there don't seem to be enough of the good professionals to stave off a genetic bottleneck if everyone else stops. I agree with the entire rest of your post completely. Okay so admittedly I didn't crunch any numbers, but based on how many dogs die in animal shelters every year in the US alone, that's a lot of dogs! I think if one dog is not spayed, in 6 years she can have theoretically 67,000 offspring (there babies babies) from just one original litter of puppies, if they also have litters, and those pups have litters, and so on and so forth. I'm all for genetic diversity---and I get what you are saying. I guess in my mind when I said professional I implied someone who has the betterment of the breed in mind, not $$$. Totally agree with you on the untrustworthiness of certain "professionals" So maybe it's not 95%, but if you consider that maybe 1/6 puppies in each litter has breeding quality, then you get the point. Now for other breeds of dogs like pit bulls, chiuhuahuas, and whatever other breed is grossly overpopulated and dying in shelters--I feel hard pressed to believe ANY of those breeders really care about their breed when they are just adding to the problem. In a perfect world I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.