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Flatcreek border collie breeder shut down...


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I'm going to have to disagree with you here. If he cared about these dogs, they would not be semi-feral, have open wounds, abscesses in their teeth, pieces missing from their noses, raw pads, etc. Should I continue on with the problems found in the vets report? Last I checked someone that remotely even cared about their dogs would not have to catch them with a pole that has a hook on it and use a flashlight to blind them in the eyes . They are obviously not even socialized with him.

 

If you read what I wrote, what I said was I don't know what the issues were, if he cared for them or not. Again, in his own weird way, maybe he thought he was doing good keeping the dogs. Maybe he has become demented. Or, maybe he was just a total asshole.

 

My point being, I am not passing judgement about of he should be punished (aside from not getting his dogs back) because I don't know and I don't want to speculate. Thats what the legal system up there is for.

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I know nothing about this guy, but if he's a border collie farm, I don't think he had "good intentions" per se toward the dogs, but that they were a source of profit for him. Caring for them properly would certainly result in a smaller profit.

 

I feel sorry for the "crazy cat lady" type, like, for example, the founder of a rescue in NC who really did have good intentions, kept taking in cats, got in over her head, and ended up being branded a hoarder (which she was, in a way) and the cats were taken from her, and many of them were euthanized (long story on that).

 

Anyway, in the latter example, I can empathize with the woman. She was trying the HELP unwanted animals and got a little crazy on the numbers. In the former case, this fellow was breeding dogs to sell. If the large numbers included dogs he'd take back from owners, that doesn't exonerate him, because it looks like he was just letting them breed too. And if you have those numbers coming back to you in the first place, then perhaps you should rethink your breeding program. Happy buyers of happy, healthy dogs don't return them in droves.

 

J.

Julie I fully agree with you.
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So happy the worst is over for tees dogs and hopefully with the help of GHF and all their experience they will have a chance at a happy future.

 

What I wonder, is if this place was on the radar of rescues.and other caring people for years why were they never reported to the state? In ny if you sell, I think more than 25 puppies a year you must be licensed as a pet dealer. You can look up who is licensed on our dept of AG site and see that they are not listed. Being licensed brings inspections and the inspections are public. It is easy to look at the number of dogs that were seen from the road and look at the several litters listed on puppy selling sites and see that they were over 25/ year.

I just wonder if anyone ever did call the state and they didn't do anything or if no one ever called. The inspections would have easily have seen the injuries, lack of shelter, health problems and low weight.

I was also shocked when I looked at the list of licensed breeders and looked at the inspection report for our local mill out of curiosity. They have 400 dogs on site as of August! Way more than I ever thought.

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I am glad that at least 5 more dogs were removed (if the FB report is correct), but I worry about the other dogs. If he didn't have appropriate housing before, I worry that the housing may be even worse in a location that may not be equipped to handle the # of dogs he moved (20-30 dogs?). And the NE (and down into the MidAtlantic states even where I am) is currently experiencing another period of extremely cold weather.

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I despise 90% that raises that many dogs. Period. Don't care if you are a working person or a puppy mill. Unless you have tons of hired help that makes sure that the dogs are not just in decent living conditions but are also socialized, educated, handled as a companion animals should be....no one needs to raise that many.

 

The same thing goes for some rescues. If you don't have enough fosters, boots on the ground etc....your animals are alive but not living the life they deserve.

 

It is a strange balance. I will admit, I reserved my opinions on this particular case. Long distance reporting can be skewed and misleading. Which is where an educated and trusted source is vital. And reading that report makes it very clear to me that this was a bad situation on more than one level. GHF is sure to be admired and supported for all their help. Great outfit.

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Waffles, they say that he was staying under the 25 sales per year limit, which may exactly be why he ended up in the fix he was in, not enough sales to support the number of dogs he had and not enough outside income to make up the difference so ended up cutting corners. Then you have the other issue where some don't want to let go of older dogs or figure that eventually they will get that pup sold that didn't sell.

 

I've seen the same happen with people with horses, they keep breeding their mares thinking that the sales of the foals will pay to support the rest of their herd, but they never really pencil it out to see how big of a hole they are digging.

 

I could honestly see where he at one time didn't have the merles and could have shifted to color breeding to help increase the demand for his puppies and get those higher prices. I've talked to others thinking the same thing, it's sad...

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they say that he was staying under the 25 sales per year limit

 

Except that there were already 17 puppies on the ground in January, so I kinda doubt that. :rolleyes: I suspect there may have been a lot of sales going on under the table. It may have something to do with why he was no longer registering with ABCA, no paper trail. (speculation, of course) And the rescues in the area have known about his producing lots of puppies for a very long time.

 

And he didn't have a lot of older dogs on site to support a claim that he was just keeping a lot of older dogs out of the goodness of his heart.

 

It's all well and good for people to be looking for ways to excuse his behavior, but it's been going on far too long for me to be able to swallow any of these excuses.

 

I really don't understand why so many people are trying to absolve this guy . . .

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Because shit heppens!!! It is damn easy to condem people. Not so easy to pick through all the facts that lead up to these things.

Sure, sometimes it is pure profit and no regard for a living breathing animal.

But sometimes it is mental challenges. Things happen in life. Some people make lousy choices. And I have seen a many person look for help and not find it. When it then evolves into a huge mess...people condem. Maybe someone could have help early on. And maybe not.

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Because shit heppens!!! It is damn easy to condem people. Not so easy to pick through all the facts that lead up to these things.

Sure, sometimes it is pure profit and no regard for a living breathing animal.

But sometimes it is mental challenges. Things happen in life. Some people make lousy choices. And I have seen a many person look for help and not find it. When it then evolves into a huge mess...people condem. Maybe someone could have help early on. And maybe not.

This.

I try very hard to give people the benefit of the doubt, but ultimately, I will side with the welfare of animals.

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Except that there were already 17 puppies on the ground in January, so I kinda doubt that. :rolleyes: I suspect there may have been a lot of sales going on under the table. It may have something to do with why he was no longer registering with ABCA, no paper trail. (speculation, of course) And the rescues in the area have known about his producing lots of puppies for a very long time.

 

And he didn't have a lot of older dogs on site to support a claim that he was just keeping a lot of older dogs out of the goodness of his heart.

 

It's all well and good for people to be looking for ways to excuse his behavior, but it's been going on far too long for me to be able to swallow any of these excuses.

 

I really don't understand why so many people are trying to absolve this guy . . .

Couldn't have said it better myself! Completely agree with you

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New England Border Collie Rescue just got some new T-shirts and sweatshirts just in time to help raise funds to cover expenses for all the Sprakers dogs (some funds may go towards other dogs in rescue, too -- we just took in 15 dogs in a week, including the 10 from Flat Creek!)

 

There are shirts to appeal to the herding folks as well as general dog people at http://shop.nebcr.org/

 

Thanks for looking.

 

IMG_20140125_053854_459_large.jpg?v=1390

 

 

IMG_20140124_153903_278_1024x1024.jpg?v=

 

 

IMG_20140125_062346_808_large.jpg?v=1390

 

IMG_20140125_065012_030_large.jpg?v=1390

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  • 2 weeks later...

From GHF Facebook: next court date for the 11 from the second seizusre is Monday.

 

"GREAT NEWS TODAY!!!
The 10 Flat Creek dogs being 'held' (from the 1st confiscation) possibly to go back are now FOREVER SAFE! They were fully relinquished today to the SPCA who has signed them over officially to Glen Highland Farm!!

We'll post new pictures and soon they'll be off to foster homes to continue the journey of a better life!!! Thank you for all the support to make this happen.

There are 11 more 'in limbo' that we are waiting to help (from the 2nd confiscation). Hoping to hear good news for them soon, too.

We have no information on the puppies that were removed prior to the State Police confiscation on 1/22/14 and have no information on the 4 young Border Collies or the Shih Tzus still at Flat Creek.
"

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Have these 'people' been to court yet, and what is the outcome? It took me a few days to actually read that report on the rescued dogs (I had to read a little bit at a time, it's horrible stuff). I'm going on a google search at the moment. By the way, Gentle, I've been to GHF and NEBCR several times looking at those pretty dogs. I know I don't have the environment for them- my kids would spook them to the MOON-- and I'm slowly (slooowly--heheh) working on getting my husband to loosen some funds for them. :)

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Not sure why, but the court date has been postponed a couple times. I think it's scheduled soon, maybe next week?

 

It's going to be a while before any of these dogs are ready to be put up for adoption, and when they are, rest assured adopters will be carefully screened to make sure they go to homes that will help them to continue on their journeys to recovery. :)

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For anyone interested in adopting a rescue, even if your home is not the right one for these particular dogs, your home might be the right one for another dog they have and that opens up funds to help these dogs, so don't not adopt just because these dogs might be too skittish for your home.

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Have these 'people' been to court yet, and what is the outcome? It took me a few days to actually read that report on the rescued dogs (I had to read a little bit at a time, it's horrible stuff).

 

As far as I understand... there were two separate court cases. Both were adjourned a number of times to prepare more evidence, allow him to get a lawyer, etc.

 

A civil case in superior court (Montgommery county), his lawyer says all but moot now that he has surrendered 35dogs (first 25 than 10) and since other court case ongoing.

 

Class A misdemeanour for failure to provide sustenance in town of Root. This one adjourned to later this month. This one will decide if gets any of the dogs from the last seizure back. (few that were seized after the initial 35).

 

http://mohawkvalley.twcnews.com/content/news/mohawk_valley/716240/lawyer--sprakers-breeder-accused-of-animal-abuse-wants-his-dogs-back/#sthash.pLKE2cED.dpuf

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