Breeding pet border collies

[Sue R]

"Harold - leg of lamb" is so real and so true! Ours aren't labeled with names but we know precisely whom we are eating.

A friend in VA years ago had a niece that would readily eat store-bought meat but nothing raised on their farm or a neighboring farm. Didn't she realize that the home-raised animals most likely had led a much better life? Were the commercial animals any less feeling?

[Smalahundur]

We ate "Lisa" (she was a bottle lamb we send to the slaughter winter old, too small to keep) last year, but we didn´t tell the kids...

[NJSwede]

"Harold - leg of lamb" is so real and so troe! Ours aren't labeled with names but we know precisely whom we are eating.

 

A friend in VA years ago had a niece that would readily eat store-bought meat but nothing raised on their farm or a neighboring farm. Didn't she realize that the home-raised animals most likely had led a much better life? Were the commercial animals any less feeling?

 

Ain't that the truth! I remember the first time I took my wife to my parents' farm in Sweden and she had issues eating a delicious roast of a lamb that had been grazing the fields outside just weeks ago. But seriously, if I were an animal, that's the kind of life I would have wanted! Graze the field with no one bothering me for a couple of years and then leave this earth without even realizing what was coming. When we home-slaughtered sheep, we would gently bring the animal to a place where the other sheep couldn't see it and stun him with a cattle gun. He had no idea what happened. No stress of riding a slaughterhouse truck or anything. The whole thing was over in milliseconds. And, seriously, the lack of stress and the abundance of green grass definitely left its mark in the meat. Man, those legs of lambs were juicy and tasty!

 

It just goes to show that it's possible to have a very loving relationship with your animals and still eat them. I think it's very hard for someone who hasn't spent time around farms and farmers to understand that.

 

Geez, my wife's addiction to horses and now recently herding, combined with my fond memories of my parents' farm has put us on a slippery slope, hasn't it? Just as some of you pointed out...

[terrecar]

Good move, Smalahundur. My father will not eat lamb to this day because my grandparents were not as discreet about the origin of his meal (or the whereabouts of his 'pet'). I'm pretty sure this refusal is considered blasphemy in the Eastern Orthodox side of my family, particularly at Easter

We ate "Lisa" (she was a bottle lamb we send to the slaughter winter old, too small to keep) last year, but we didn´t tell the kids...

[Sue R]

Our kids grew up from the get-go knowing they were eating "dead cow" or "dead pig" or "dead goat" so they always knew where meat came from. Too many people grow up without a hint of reality about any and all forms of food.

[G. Festerling]

And then this is the basis for the same people not getting the idea of not breeding pet Border Collies.

 

And what do you mean.....the meat is not manufactured at the store????

[Tommy Coyote]

I just thought i would point out that wolves will not tolerate coyotes. They found that out in Yellowstone. Wolves in, coyotes out. And wolves prey on larger animals and that is much better for the overall ecology. Lots of the smaller species of birds and other stuff are coming back. In the meantime the larger elk and deer populations are coming back into control.

[Jumpin Boots]

We ate "Lisa" (she was a bottle lamb we send to the slaughter winter old, too small to keep) last year, but we didn´t tell the kids...

Our rule was always that we didn't name what we ate, we'd call them chops or stew-art, but not a real name.

 

Then when I was a kid we had a ram break in with the young ewes and ended up with an inbred little lamb. Stumpy (I was allowed to name him) was of normal size body but pint size legs. He played with the barn cats and followed me everywhere with the dog. My Dad served him for Xmas dinner. I just sat there sobbing, I didn't have to eat, but wasn't allowed to leave the table till everyone was done. I'm sure my Dad was trying to teach me some sort of lesson, but all I can remember thinking was that he lied to me.

 

It was a very long time before I named another farm animal. Tough farm kid experience.

[Tilly's Handler]

I just thought i would point out that wolves will not tolerate coyotes. They found that out in Yellowstone. Wolves in, coyotes out. And wolves prey on larger animals and that is much better for the overall ecology. Lots of the smaller species of birds and other stuff are coming back. In the meantime the larger elk and deer populations are coming back into control.

Most of the coyotes here in eastern Ontario are a mix of wolf and coyote which is why they are getting larger and hunting in packs There has been DNA testing and research done which support this

[Smalahundur]

Yeah, we don´t name our food animals as a rule either, but as said this was a bottle lamb that was tiny at birth. Because our kids fed it its milk it got a name.

 

After summertime it hadn´t grown big enough to be with lamb itself so we decided to keep it over the winter to see how it would look after it had spend a summer on the fell. It came home about as big as the lambs of that year so it was slaughtered and had exactly the average lamb slaughter weight (although she was a whole year older)...

 

Our children (eight and six) do realize that the meat they eat comes from our lambs. "Tasty" is all the comment they have given so far.

 

Icelanders in general have a pretty "down to earth" attitude in such matters. For instance in kindergarten children of 4/5 year old go annually on excursion in the local slaughterhouse. No parent here finds that strange or inappropriate.

[NJSwede]

BTW, Harold's life story was a sad one. He was a huge, beautiful and very friendly ram who my parents thought would give excellent offspring. And I'm sure he would have, if it wasn't for one little problem. You see, Harold couldn't, how should I say this... perform when it was time to court the ewes. He was just really weird and clumsy about the whole thing and we had to abort the whole process before someone got hurt. And this, alas, drove Harold to his demise. He filled an entire commercial freezer and made a much better roast than a lover... Poor Harold!

 

...but I digress. I think it's the Swedish Christmas Schnapps that's talking.

[GentleLake]

I just thought i would point out that wolves will not tolerate coyotes.

 

Tell that to the large coyotes that inhabit the North Eastern US now. They've been shown to have wolf DNA.

[Gideon's girl]

Our rule was always that we didn't name what we ate, we'd call them chops or stew-art, but not a real name.

 

 

This made me laugh. We have 10 year old chickens because they were named, but the calf we are raising this year gets a new food name regularly, Cheeseburger, Stew, Porter, Jerky, Meatloaf, we have a ton of them.

[Liz P]

Sometimes they taste better when you know who you are eating, like the stupid sheep who bashed the gate down. He tasted quite good in a hearty, barely soup.

[Maralynn]

Pet Peeve - the idea put forth by some city dwellers that farmers need to put up with every nuisance animal because "wild animals were there first". And then trapping their own nuisance animals and releasing them in the country so they don't have to deal with them. Umm, wild animals also lived in all those cities and suburbs first, folks!

[GentleLake]

And no, I have not seen that Nova episode, though it looks fascinating. I watch biology documentaries for fun in my spare time, I will try to find that one.

 

 

 

Btw, the only reason I commented that this question has been asked and answered for at least 30 years is because you said you didn't think we understood what you were asking. It was just a way of confirming that, yes, we do understand the question.

 

I don't think anyone was chastising you for asking or any of the other things you seem to have taken offense about. But one thing you'll learn about people on this board is that we tend to be pretty straightforward in saying how we feel about things. I've seen more than one person put off by this, but rarely have I seen anything that I thought was intentionally rude.

[Gideon's girl]

Sometimes they taste better when you know who you are eating, like the stupid sheep who bashed the gate down. He tasted quite good in a hearty, barely soup.

I think Cheeseburger is going to taste wonderful after all the times he has headbutted me and shoved me all over the place! Mighty delicious!! I can't wait until June!

[TEC]

But don't get ensnared into referring to a particular lamb or steer as, for instance, "Sunday Dinner" or "Stew", despite that the owner and his/her family have previously made those references regarding the same animal. Awkward moments can result. Likely all depends on the person's facial expression and tone of voice -- TEC

[Jumpin Boots]

Sometimes they taste better when you know who you are eating, like the stupid sheep who bashed the gate down. He tasted quite good in a hearty, barely soup.

Ha, that is true, we had an evil rooster that attacked everyone who tried to walk through the barn yard, best soup ever!

[Gloria Atwater]

Well, I can sure tell it's the holidays, because somehow we've managed to derail a discussion of dog/border collie genetics completely sideways - to FOOD!

You guys crack me up. And now I'm hungry. Wonder if we have some ham left over ....

~ Gloria

P.S.
I quit naming my chickens not because I ate them, but because the coyotes, coons and bobcats did. I feel slightly less sad if they ate "the red one" than if they ate Matilda.

[Donald McCaig]

Dear Doggers,

 

Re: "Borders" and "B.C."s.

 

I might go on about how language can trivialize but, in the Christmas spirit hangover, will refrain.

 

The "u" in "Staunton" Virginia is not pronounced. In Manhattan "Houston Street" become "Houseton Street". Natives don't pronounce the "T" in "Baltimore" or call "San Francisco" "Frisco".

 

While my belief that Dog Fanciers trivialize dogs with diminutives is debatable, there's no doubt that cultures -including sheepdog culture - use distinct pronunciations, nicknames, acronyms and expressions at least in part to prove their common understanding. Outsiders/strangers using terms from a different culture self-identify.

 

It isn't mere words.

 

Donald

[terrecar]

"I despise a floggin' rooster."

Ha, that is true, we had an evil rooster that attacked everyone who tried to walk through the barn yard, best soup ever!

 

[Pipedream Farm]

To have the breeding goals of breeding a "pet border collie" is to have the goal to produce dogs with the appearance of Border Collies but without the substance of Border Collies. This is not a new set of breeding goals; show breeders, flyball breeders, agility breeders, etc are already breeding dogs with the appearance of Border Collies without breeding for the substance. They are effectively producing different breeds.

 

Breeding for some of the genes but not all in a highly developed breed/type is not without risks. Take for example pit bulls. Most of the individual pups produced these days are no longer produced under the breeding goals used to develop this breed. Those who are not careful in their selection process for crosses are producing unstable dogs that are more difficult to control than days of old when these dogs were viewed as nanny dogs.

 

Mark

[GentleLake]

I had an evil rooster once that should have been dinner.

 

While I write (or type) "BC" for brevity, I don't say it. I say "border collie".

[Liz P]

I suppose it's like the super religious people freaking out when others write Xmas instead of Christmas. No offense is intended. I too write BC sometimes, especially when posting from my phone.