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sogj
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All of my dogs have been rescues and all spayed/neutered. I have never found this to affect drive. My current BC was spayed at 6 months old and she is capable of running 7 yps on a NADAC course (when her handler can think fast enough) and runs 4 sec (+/-) in flyball. I don't believe that her being spayed has caused her to loose her edge. My previous mixed breed was spayed at 1 year old, not quite as fast as Abbey, but also saddled with a green handler so who knows.

 

I prefer females, though I will think long and hard before I ever have two at the same time again. In general, my experience with my own dogs and foster dogs is that females tend to be more serious, mature earlier and are mentally tougher. The male dogs we've had have tended to be goofier and mentally softer. Our males have tended to want to please the humans more than pleasing themselves. The girlies a little more independent thinking.

 

Gina

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Dogrsqr, the question with speed is when you have a fast driven dog who has got to maturity intact and you can see their performance level in competition, most rescues are fixed before they get into competing, it is impossible to compare the performance between neutered and intact we just don't know. There are plenty of fast driven fixed dogs, I have talked to people who like I planned waited until the dog (these conversations have always involved dogs not bitches as I don't have one) was 18 months/2 years old to fix them and have have regretted it as they felt the dog lost that edge, in USDAA every 100th second can count to get that win in tournaments :) others have noticed no difference. So I am going with the concept if it ain't broken don't mess with it.

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There is evidence that there are health risks in neutering male dogs. With females the risks and benefits kind of even out:

ttp://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/LongTermHealthEffectsOfSpayNeuterInDogs.pdf

 

Actually the conclusion of many professionals is that the jury is out on the question of health benefits versus risks of neutering dogs but on balance the health benefits of spaying bitches outweigh any potential risk.

 

The existence of a risk doesn't mean that it is necessarily significant when weighed against common and life threatening conditions that could be avoided.

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Dogrsqr, the question with speed is when you have a fast driven dog who has got to maturity intact and you can see their performance level in competition, most rescues are fixed before they get into competing, it is impossible to compare the performance between neutered and intact we just don't know. There are plenty of fast driven fixed dogs, I have talked to people who like I planned waited until the dog (these conversations have always involved dogs not bitches as I don't have one) was 18 months/2 years old to fix them and have have regretted it as they felt the dog lost that edge, in USDAA every 100th second can count to get that win in tournaments :) others have noticed no difference. So I am going with the concept if it ain't broken don't mess with it.

 

I would take the same view but from a different angle. My dogs have always been neutered between around 6 and 12 months. None has suffered from any of the risks that are frequently cited and I am happy with the level of drive of those that were interested in agility, and even the activity level of those not interested. Hence I am happy to continue the same neutering practice with any future dogs. I just don't think it's as big a deal as many people have been persuaded it is.

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Well, for males the evidence is actually pretty favorable for not neutering. Definite increase in risk of prostatic cancer, definite increased risk of obesity, decent evidence for increased risk of CCL tears, questionable increased risk for other health/behavioral problems. Only benefits are eliminating risk of testicular cancer (which is not common, and easily treated in most cases...by neutering!), reducing risk of BPH (which can also be easily treated by neutering!), and reducing some sexually motivated behaviors (mounting, marking) by 50-70%. Neutered dogs can and often do still exhibit these behaviors, as well as interest in an estrus female, intromission, and aggression to other male dogs (which is only reduced in 30% of cases by neutering).

 

Vasectomy!!!

 

However, for females, yes, the health benefits do exist. What is questionable are the negative consequences of neutering in females. I, for one, await further research eagerly.

 

Also, have we hijacked this thread?? :-)

Actually the conclusion of many professionals is that the jury is out on the question of health benefits versus risks of neutering dogs but on balance the health benefits of spaying bitches outweigh any potential risk.

The existence of a risk doesn't mean that it is necessarily significant when weighed against common and life threatening conditions that could be avoided.

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Vasectomy!!!

 

 

Yes! I really don't understand why it isn't more commonplace. It's a less invasive surgery and accomplishes the same practical purpose.

 

If I ever have a male dog again that I have control over this decision (I've had only rescues for years now and the dogs have all come to me already spayed and neutered), this is definitely what I'd do.

 

As an aside, I wouldn't even adopt a very young puppy that had been altered. I did adopt a 6 month old who had just been spayed, but any younger than that, if the rescue won't allow me to make the decision as to when it's done (and I'd be willing to lay out a pretty hefty returnable deposit to ensure it), I'd pass. I don't believe in pediatric spay/neuters.

 

And, yes; it looks like the thread's been hijacked! ;)

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Dogrsqr, the question with speed is when you have a fast driven dog who has got to maturity intact and you can see their performance level in competition, most rescues are fixed before they get into competing, it is impossible to compare the performance between neutered and intact we just don't know. There are plenty of fast driven fixed dogs, I have talked to people who like I planned waited until the dog (these conversations have always involved dogs not bitches as I don't have one) was 18 months/2 years old to fix them and have have regretted it as they felt the dog lost that edge, in USDAA every 100th second can count to get that win in tournaments :) others have noticed no difference. So I am going with the concept if it ain't broken don't mess with it.

 

There are many other reasons why a dog may slow down or loose that edge that have nothing to do with spaying or neutering. Perhaps the dog was mentally shut down by handler stressing over accuracy and that almighty Q or winning the class? Perhaps trainers have emphasized tight technical work at an early age before a dog has had a chance to learn that agility is fun? Perhaps handlers are working the dog too often and trialing too often?

 

Way too many variables too attribute loss of drive to any one of them or spaying/neutering.

 

I agree .... if it ain't broken don't mess with it. My spayed dog ain't broken so I see no reason to leave future dogs intact.

 

Gina

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We have thoroughly hijacked the thread :). I spent sometime looking into vasectomies, Rievaulx is a rescue and I was going to go the vasectomy route to honnor my adoption agreement. My vet was happy to do it, but we did not go ahead as Brody cost us a fortune at the vets during this time while they tried to figure out what was wrong with him. I volunteer and foster for the small rescue that Rievaulx came from and they know me and him well and are fine with him intact, the guy in charge often jokes that he needs to keep them as he is such a whimp. The only small issue is we do not foster intact bitches. Nor do I broadcast that I have an intact rescue :)

If I had a bitch I would spay as I don't think I could deal with seasons and what I have read there are real health benefits to spaying while with the dogs current research seems to come down on the side of not. I would also have neutered if we had had boy behaviour issues. Regarding the boys and drive, we geld horses to calm them down, but not mares, stallions don't make the best riding horses so personally I am sure the same applies in dogs, you will always get exceptions to that which you see in gelded thoroughbreds, for my fellow Brits can you imagine how much Red Rums stud fees would have been!

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Ha. The other thing to remember is that a lot of really competitive or even just very involved folks like to leave their dogs intact for health/orthopedic development reasons. And bitches in season cannot compete in most US venues. But I have to say, in my limited experience, that the most accurate description of females versus males was what I read once. This was from a herding person, not an agility one, but seems very true: if you want a dog that will run 90% of perfect 100% of the time, get a male. If you want a dog that will run 110% of perfect 75% of the time, get a female. Both my girls are drivey, brilliant, pushy, and highly arousable. They can and do lose their brains sometimes, particularly in an overly stimulating environment; when they don't, they are amazing partners. A lot of the males I know do not lose their brains like that, and are the steadier, slightly less flashy versions of their female counterparts. Exceptions to every rule, but applies to most of the BCs I know running in agility around here.

 

I second this! I feel like in general female are more serious, smart as all else and just stellar, but they are more sporadic with their performance which I can see being frustrating/challening. Males I know tend to be more even in their performance, along with a more laid back attitude. I just like living with males so I got a male, agility and sports out of the way, this dog still has to be a part of my family :).

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