mum24dog Posted November 21, 2013 Report Share Posted November 21, 2013 I use double ended leads and find that even loosely draping the lead around the dog's chest with one end each side of it can help some dogs reduce their desire to pull. I guess it may make them more aware of their body and balance but clearly it puts no force on them at all. It may work best if a dog has already been in a harness and has been weaned off but I have found it can work with those that have never worn a harness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kian's Mom Posted November 21, 2013 Report Share Posted November 21, 2013 What I was taught in obedience class years ago is that if you are going one direction and the dog starts pulling, turn around and go the other direction. As long as the dog is pulling in one direction keep turning and going the other way. They soon learn that pulling is not getting them where they want to go, but if they walk nicely then they get where they want. That is their reward. You may look like a duck shoot going back and forth but it does work. I also use treat and praise when they are walking nicely. As long as a dog is pulling an you continue to let them pull in that direction then you are rewarding that behavior by allowing them to continue. Luckily none of my dogs have ever had to wear a harness and at this point never will. But I have always started with pups so they learned from an early age to heel at my side with no pulling. Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pam Wolf Posted November 21, 2013 Report Share Posted November 21, 2013 Donald, I guess you have learned a lot since Pip. I seem to recall a younger version of Donald with an easily excitable Pip dragging Donald on a chain lead many years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald McCaig Posted November 21, 2013 Report Share Posted November 21, 2013 Pam, Pip, alas, was thirty years ago and your recollection is faulty. Donald McCaig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted November 21, 2013 Report Share Posted November 21, 2013 What I was taught in obedience class years ago is that if you are going one direction and the dog starts pulling, turn around and go the other direction. As long as the dog is pulling in one direction keep turning and going the other way. They soon learn that pulling is not getting them where they want to go, but if they walk nicely then they get where they want. That is their reward. You may look like a duck shoot going back and forth but it does work. I also use treat and praise when they are walking nicely. As long as a dog is pulling an you continue to let them pull in that direction then you are rewarding that behavior by allowing them to continue. Luckily none of my dogs have ever had to wear a harness and at this point never will. But I have always started with pups so they learned from an early age to heel at my side with no pulling. Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted November 21, 2013 Report Share Posted November 21, 2013 I was trying to say that this works well for many dogs. There is more than one way to work with a puller but the more ingrained the bad habit, the harder it is to replace it with a good habit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geonni banner Posted November 21, 2013 Report Share Posted November 21, 2013 Dear Doggers, Agree. I can understand why a frail or disabled person might need an apparatus to prevent a dog from pulling. Otherwise I cannot see the point. My dogs are rarely on lead and some might imagine they'd be determined pullers when their freedom is suddenly restricted. Nope. My 120 pound guard dogs who are only "on leash" when they must go to the vet or are put up during sheepdog trials want to pull but desist when I tell them to. One common exchange when novices bring their dog to a sheepdog clinic goes like this: Instructor: "Why is that dog pulling." Novice: "He always pulls. He's terrible that way (embarrassed laugh)" Instructor: "How can you trust him off leash on sheep if you can't trust him when he's attached with a (chain/strong leather strap etc)?" Novice: "Er." Instructor: "Give him to me. I'll sort it out." And moments later - not hours, not days, not after lengthy sophisticated instruction- the dog no longer pulls. When your dog pulls tell him to stop pulling. Not many things in dog training are utterly simple. This is. Donald McCaig Hear, hear! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mum24dog Posted November 22, 2013 Report Share Posted November 22, 2013 Dear Doggers, Agree. I can understand why a frail or disabled person might need an apparatus to prevent a dog from pulling. Otherwise I cannot see the point. My dogs are rarely on lead and some might imagine they'd be determined pullers when their freedom is suddenly restricted. Nope. My 120 pound guard dogs who are only "on leash" when they must go to the vet or are put up during sheepdog trials want to pull but desist when I tell them to. One common exchange when novices bring their dog to a sheepdog clinic goes like this: Instructor: "Why is that dog pulling." Novice: "He always pulls. He's terrible that way (embarrassed laugh)" Instructor: "How can you trust him off leash on sheep if you can't trust him when he's attached with a (chain/strong leather strap etc)?" Novice: "Er." Instructor: "Give him to me. I'll sort it out." And moments later - not hours, not days, not after lengthy sophisticated instruction- the dog no longer pulls. When your dog pulls tell him to stop pulling. Not many things in dog training are utterly simple. This is. Donald McCaig And have you done a personal follow up on those dogs to be sure that they haven't relapsed when not in the presence of the person who has "cured" them of pulling or that there haven't been any detrimental behavioural effects? As a matter of fact it is a common experience in training situations that a dog will behave better with a stranger than with its owner. The test is whether it lasts when handed back and in the real world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mum24dog Posted November 22, 2013 Report Share Posted November 22, 2013 I think when your dog's excursions out into the world beyond your small property are all on leash it is a different level of excitement compared to the fortunate dogs who live on farms and are rarely leashed.I was thinking more about this when I was out with the dogs yesterday. If I lived in a house in the middle of nowhere with no delivery vans calling at the homes of neighbours or myself throughout the day, no people/dogs/horses passing a few yards from the windows, few cars, no pesky people knocking on the door trying to sell me something, no car lights making scary shadows at night, no people walking their dogs on the canal towpath at the end of the garden, no boats going by, and where my dogs were used to pottering about or working with me off lead much of the time I'm pretty sure their behaviour would be a lot less excitable on the odd occasion when a lead was necessary, they'd probably hardly notice they were wearing one. The nearest my dogs get to that peaceful sort of lifestyle on a regular basis is when I'm out on the marshes. They don't bother the sheep or the horses, they aren't interested in other dogs, they don't need a lead. I'm pretty sure the behaviour they show there would transfer to other situations quite easily if it was the norm for them rather than a small part of their lives. When a lead outside the house is the exception in a dog's day why would it be a big deal to have to wear one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pam Wolf Posted November 22, 2013 Report Share Posted November 22, 2013 donald I do have photos that prove the memory is good, perhaps yours puts more polish on the pulling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Billadeau Posted November 22, 2013 Report Share Posted November 22, 2013 never mind, not worth the effort Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erin_ohagan Posted November 22, 2013 Report Share Posted November 22, 2013 I am not an experienced dog owner and trainer, but I do have 15 years of experience in the education field and there are many similarities to training children in dog training. We are slowly learning in the education world that a one-sized-fits-all approach might work for a lot of students, but there are also many students who just don't fit into the traditional way our schools work. This is also true of dogs. A heavy-handed approach might work with well-bred and resilient dogs, but I would not have let anyone within 10 feet of my dog who claimed they could train her to walk nicely on a leash in one session. She spent the first 5 months of her life in a10x20 foot kennel with 18 other dogs and hardly knew what a collar was, much less how to walk with a loose leash. My dog WILL eventually be trained to walk nicely on a leash. It might take longer than other dogs, but I would not give up the trust I built with her with a quick and dirty lesson for anything. Meanwhile, I don't feel badly about using the tools that are out there to help me give her the exercise, socialization, experiences she needs and deserves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highway61 Posted November 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2013 never mind, not worth the effort Agreed. Now that Donald has chimed in with is usual "if he's doing something you don't like, tell him to stop" words of wisdom, we should all move on. Thanks for all the advice, I am learning from and appreciate it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted November 22, 2013 Report Share Posted November 22, 2013 This may or may not be the right interpretation of Mark's comment. For some reason, I'm thinking it's not but I could be wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted November 23, 2013 Report Share Posted November 23, 2013 Agreed Sue. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentleLake Posted November 28, 2013 Report Share Posted November 28, 2013 Here's the other one I've seen . . . the Horgan Harness: http://horganharness.com/ A very odd looking contraption, but it might not cause the same shoulder issues that the front clip ones are said to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rushdoggie Posted November 28, 2013 Report Share Posted November 28, 2013 The place I am teaching at is looking at these. We have heard very good things about them. Does anyone have any experience with them? http://www.freedomnopullharness.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentleLake Posted November 28, 2013 Report Share Posted November 28, 2013 Isn't this just a variation on the Easy Walk, sans the martingale portion in the front? If (and I say "if" because I really don't know if it's true) there's an issue with shoulder injury with the front clip ones, I'm not sure how this one would be any different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rushdoggie Posted November 28, 2013 Report Share Posted November 28, 2013 Isn't this just a variation on the Easy Walk, sans the martingale portion in the front? If (and I say "if" because I really don't know if it's true) there's an issue with shoulder injury with the front clip ones, I'm not sure how this one would be any different. I hadn't heard of shoulder issues. We already have the Easy Walk, but find that for many body types it doesn't work as well. None of our students have reported any problems and they have been selling them there for many years. That said, we sell them to people who physically can't control their dog or who use walking as a primary form of exercise and teach loose leash walking in the classes with the goal of no longer needing the harness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentleLake Posted November 28, 2013 Report Share Posted November 28, 2013 teach loose leash walking in the classes with the goal of no longer needing the harness. Which is as it should be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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