Is My Dog Getting the Better of Me??

[BCjetta]

Both my border collies have stared at me. Hannah would stare for a while and then start wagging her tail, snapping at the air and making groaning noises. She either needed to go outside, or more likely was trying to get me to play with a toy that was usually somewhere near my feet. Tess will stare at me as well but she's quieter...just stands and stares at me. I know she's also doing it because she wants something...wants me to play with her or do something with her, however she doesn't wag her tail or make noises, just stares.

[Camden's Mom]

Interesting, since my husband has been home she is back to her normal loveable self. We were out on an extremely long run/walk last night whilst my son was playing soccer and we ran into another BC gorgeous boy and his owner and I were having a chat and Maverick (her BC) has had a couple of episodes of RG also so I felt a little better that maybe I haven't been doing anything wrong she is just being a dog and I need to handle myself better, more calm and assertive rather than a scaredy cat xo

 

With regards to the RG... Despite everything being "back to normal", I wanted to suggest that you still work with her on this behavior (even if just at a maintenance level). I'm not suggesting you pester your dog to death every time she has a high value item, but maybe once or twice a week do the "trade game" or walk up and drop tasty treats next to her while she's enjoying her rawhide, bone, bully, etc.

 

It's easy to want to put a behavioral episode behind you, and likely it WAS just an episode (she's a teenager testing boundaries, after all) but please just try to remain aware and on the lookout for it cropping up again... just in case! Sometimes people miss the subtle signs of RG (freezing, staring, "claiming" the item by stepping over it, etc.) before they see the nastier side of the behavior (lip curls, growls, showing teeth, snapping).

 

Glad to hear that things feel a bit more normal and settled in the house since your husband and son returned home. At least now you can breathe a bit easier and be a bit more relaxed and calm! All the best!

[mum24dog]

Dear Doggers,

 

Ms. Mum disagrees with my prescription for finding a trainer with at least 4 years experience noting correctly that some hacks go on for decades mistraining dogs and owners.

 

I have seen any number of people with less than 4 years experience who could train dogs to the minimum requirements most pet owners have of their dogs.

 

Training the dog is the easy part.

 

Training the human owner in that owner's specific life circumstances to train his/her own dog (and keep it trained) is more difficult. Blustery males, timid females, frail elders, distracted teens, pompous, diffident, depressed, know-it-alls and know-nothings - with dogs genetically programmed to kill rats or pull sleds or kill rabbits or work sheep or "she's a rescue - the shelter thought she was a 'shepherd mix'" from God knows what background - that's the material the pet dog trainer faces on the very first day of class.

 

My hat is off to the good pet dog trainers. I couldn't do it.

 

Donald McCaig

 

I don't disagree with you on any of that.

 

When we start a new beginners agility course we can pretty much tell as soon as they come through the door who will listen to what they are told and try to put it into practice and who won't. It is very hard work with some of them.

 

We actually seem to spend more time advising on general behaviour and training than on specific agility training. And no, most of us don't have any paper qualifications but do have a lot of years experience under our belts.

[geonni banner]

I stumbled onto this a couple of days ago. To me it clearly defines the problems with the "I'm the boss and I'm gonna kick your butt if you don't chill out" approach. It also dispels the myth of "Labs are so mellow."

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpPNhjD7Mg4 "Ceaser's Worst Bite."

[mum24dog]

I stumbled onto this a couple of days ago. To me it clearly defines the problems with the "I'm the boss and I'm gonna kick your butt if you don't chill out" approach. It also dispels the myth of "Labs are so mellow."

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpPNhjD7Mg4 "Ceaser's Worst Bite."

 

Anyone with half a clue about dogs saw it coming long before the dog could put up with no more after giving warning after warning. One way to create a really dangerous dog that won't bother to give warnings in future because they are ignored by stupid humans.

[5Bordercollies]

Shaz, Cesar's "calm assertive energy" is probably the very best thing he does "preach". Calm assertive energy is the trademark of a good pack leader. And yes, dogs do have packs and packs have leaders. That however does NOT mean you have to constantly go around bossing your dog around and being mean to it. It does not mean you have to always go thru doors first, always walk in front or such BS. Please forgive my language. There are probably dogs that might need that kind of leadership, but Not many BC's. Cesar like mentioned before and perfectly illustrated by that video takes the dog over threshold which is not necessary. A trainer is a very good idea and\ or some form of puppy class, it helps you get some guidance and at at least give you a head start. Paul Owens wrote a very good book "the dog whisperer". He has a very good approach and really takes you through training step- by - step. If you only ever invest in one training book, make it that one.

[mum24dog]

And yes, dogs do have packs and packs have leaders.

 

Sorry - not so. Dogs free from human interference form small loose opportunistic groups from time to time. Human beings force them into usually unrelated groups that in no way resemble a pack in the way that wolves would (and even wolf packs are not as rigidly hierarchical as used to be thought). A domestic dog that doesn't fit in for whatever reason can't leave, for example.

 

A pack consists of members of the same species grouped together for breeding and survival purposes which clearly we aren't as far as our dogs are concerned. Commonly the term is wrongly used to refer to a non species specific social group such as a human family and associated domestic pets.

 

Of course in any group of living creatures there will be one or more that will be more assertive than the others, but assertiveness is not usually a case of one dog deciding to control all the resources and interactions. Most groups of domestic dogs will share responsibility for leadership depending on what is at issue.

[JohnLloydJones]

Sorry - not so. Dogs free from human interference form small loose opportunistic groups from time to time. Human beings force them into usually unrelated groups that in no way resemble a pack in the way that wolves would (and even wolf packs are not as rigidly hierarchical as used to be thought). A domestic dog that doesn't fit in for whatever reason can't leave, for example.

The term pack is certainly very much misused, but street dogs certainly do live in packs, and yes, they have a leader. I grant you pack behaviour is quite fluid, but the leader position is clear and visible. I have observed this in India (where I lived for some years) as well as Egypt. There was an interesting study of street dogs in Moscow and the way they chose the smartest as leader (I've lost the reference for that right now).

Added: see Street Dogs in Moscow

[mum24dog]

The term pack is certainly very much misused, but street dogs certainly do live in packs, and yes, they have a leader. I grant you pack behaviour is quite fluid, but the leader position is clear and visible. I have observed this in India (where I lived for some years) as well as Egypt. There was an interesting study of street dogs in Moscow and the way they chose the smartest as leader (I've lost the reference for that right now).

Added: see Street Dogs in Moscow

That link seems to use "pack" to describe a group of random dogs that come together for a mutually beneficial purpose rather than in any specific ethological sense. Dogs do what works for them, that's all. If one dog has the smarts needed for a particular situation why would other dogs not follow? My dogs do it too.

 

You may find this brief summary of social group dynamics interesting -

 

http://www.caninemind.co.uk/pack.html

[JohnLloydJones]

The term pack, as I noted earlier, has been bandied about far too much. Dogs are social animals and, when given the opportunity, live in cohesive groups. Their behaviour is altered by interaction with us humans, and they have uniquely developed the ability to overlap their social group with ours. My response was to your comment about "Dogs free from human interference" -- which I referred to as street dogs. [truly feral dogs are another story, but I have little experience with them]. I can tell you from direct observation in India, that street dogs do form cohesive groups, even when a casual observer may see "small loose opportunistic groups" . Our apartment building, like others in Bombay had its own, distinct pack. They were territorial and while they may not have appeared to be tightly bound, that changed the moment an intruder appeared. Immediately they will gather together and protect their territory. At moments like this, the leader becomes very apparent. Fights are uncommon, but I have observed rival packs fighting and inflicting major injuries on each other.

 

I read the caninemind article. The author is mostly describing the loose groups of dogs who are not in the "free from human interference" category. Her mention of "village dogs" as "non-pack" animals appears to based on a very two dimensional view of their social behaviour. Overt pack behaviour appears when the need arises. That may, for example, be to protect territory or to hunt large prey (which would be rare for village dogs). The rest of the time the cohesiveness may not be so obvious to the human observer, but it's there. It's worth reminding ourselves that most of the world's dogs live as street dogs / village dogs and not in the tight association that most readers of this board have with their dogs.

 

[My apologies if I have strayed too far from the original topic.]

[johnvanslyke]

Staring is kind of what BCs do. I have 2 so I have 4 eyes locked on me at all times. I really think my BCs need to get a life. I have another dog who is not a BC and she does her own thing most of the time. Not the BCs. They are worse than shadows. Typically they have to have part of them touching me when I am relaxing. I can get up and 20 times in a row and they will get up and move 20 times. If I get tired of having a "dog pile"on me and shoo them off they will sit as close as possible....and of course stare, but with more intensity. If they even slightly sense that I may be thinking of going outside for some frisbee they will frantically bolt for the door. If I don't arrive they bolt back, sit directly in front of me and stare.

 

If I forget our morning toy play session before I go to work then I get some very intense stares usually with some grumbling which if you didn't know them well might seem a little intimidating. They will then refuse to eat their breakfast because they haven't had their play session. Food is a secondary concern.

 

It's just who they are. They want to DO. They want MORE DOING. It is never enough.

[GentleLake]

Anyone with half a clue about dogs saw it coming long before the dog could put up with no more after giving warning after warning. One way to create a really dangerous dog that won't bother to give warnings in future because they are ignored by stupid humans.

 

Yep . . . and his body language was really pretty laughable. So over-the-top staged and confrontational, trying to come off as the ultimate tough guy.

 

He asked for that bite . . . and he got just what he asked for.